Time for a long gun as well as hand gun?

[ArfinGreebly]

My truck gun for the last few years has been a Marlin Papoose.

It's out of sight, doesn't resemble a rifle at all, and you kinda have to know where it is or it just "isn't there." This "truck" is an SUV and has a lift panel in the back where jumper cables, tow straps, first aid kit, and so on live. As well as a brick of .22LR and spare mags.

This has nothing to do with zombies, saving the world, acting as a counter-sniper, or any similar drama. It has everything to do with emergencies of the kind often encountered in places like the Inland Northwest (North Idaho, for example). Up there it's really pretty easy to find yourself out in the woods, well away from the main roads, and driving on some poorly maintained (if at all) dirt road with axel-deep ruts, or in fresh mud or snow.

You get stuck out in a place like that, you will want to have options, and a light rifle with way too much ammo is a "good thing" in the Boy Scout sense of the term.

In this same truck is a "truck box" containing blankets, water, food, knives, an axe, a short machete, another first aid kit, and an assortment of handy things to have ... just because.

The rifle is just one more piece of that kit. It's legal pretty much everywhere, I don't need a permit for it, and if I have to hike, it's light and compact.

So, yes, I am in favor of a truck gun, properly stowed, discreetly, against the day you find yourself engaged in involuntary camping out in the boonies somewhere.

In civilization? I'd have to get kind of creative to come up with a plausible "survival" scenario that involves the rifle. Who knows? Maybe I should try my hand at fiction.

 

[hatt]

So keeping a handgun on you is pretty smart but keeping a much more effective long gun close is crazy. Interesting. I don't bother with a rifle unless going out of town. And then it makes me feel better. Guess I need my head checked.

 

[leadcounsel]

So keeping a handgun on you is pretty smart but keeping a much more effective long gun close is crazy. Interesting. I don't bother with a rifle unless going out of town. And then it makes me feel better. Guess I need my head checked.

Crazy? Nope.

But once you have a grasp of what LAWFUL SELF DEFENSE means, then you begin to understand that the application of a longarm (meaning, you have to go retrieve it, load it - most jurisdictions criminalize a loaded longarm stored in a vehicle, and return to the scene... no longer probably justifiable self defense) you begin to realize there simply are so few instances in reality, in total, or statistically that it will ever be called into action.

Instead, it'll likely be stolen. Or you return to a mall shooting with your AR15 and suddenly are mistaken for an active shooter and are targeted by cops, interfere with their job, confuse them, or worse...

Personal choice. Not the worst idea in the world. But unless it's situations as I've previously described on a previous post - I see no legit use...

 

[hatt]

There are plenty of examples and scenarios that can be produced where a handy long gun would have quickly ended the hostilities. Here's one. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton_schoolyard_shooting
Or as simple as civil unrest popping up while you're at friends or family and you want a little extra security.

 

[Warp]

Crazy? Nope.

But once you have a grasp of what LAWFUL SELF DEFENSE means, then you begin to understand that the application of a longarm (meaning, you have to go retrieve it, load it - most jurisdictions criminalize a loaded longarm stored in a vehicle, and return to the scene... no longer probably justifiable self defense) you begin to realize there simply are so few instances in reality, in total, or statistically that it will ever be called into action.

Instead, it'll likely be stolen. Or you return to a mall shooting with your AR15 and suddenly are mistaken for an active shooter and are targeted by cops, interfere with their job, confuse them, or worse...

Personal choice. Not the worst idea in the world. But unless it's situations as I've previously described on a previous post - I see no legit use...

Many of us live in jurisdictions where a long gun can be kept loaded.

The scene might be on top of you with no need to "return" to it.

Just sayin'

 

[Mayvik]

I suspect you will find your "impending terror plot" scenario plays out in a "gun free zone" anyway....

 

[pinehtr]

True so True

 

[ACP]

I second what TennJed said 35 posts ago.

If the premise is a long gun will help you confront an Islamic terrorist attack, no.

I believe it is more likely that your long gun would be stolen from your vehicle and used by criminals in a criminal act than it would be to prevent a criminal act. I second the suggestions of carrying first aid or communications equipment if you are seeking to help your fellow man in times of trouble.

 

[X-Rap]

I believe it is more likely that your long gun would be stolen from your vehicle and used by criminals in a criminal act than it would be to prevent a criminal act.

That is almost verbatim the argument that the antis keep puking up about having a gun in the home, perhaps they are more correct in their thinking than we credit them?

 

[ACP]

Nope, not like that at all, actually.

 

[urbaneruralite]

Some former LEO instructors led a discussion on something similar as part of a training class I took. They said that if you used your long gun to help out a LEO in trouble, he would probably recognize and appreciate. They also said that if other LEO came on the scene they would probably not recognize and would probably view you as a threat.

My point is that if you think you're going to stop a terrorist threat without suffering friendly fire, you better get it done and get out before the cops show up. Good thing terrorist attacks are very unlikely!

 

[Warp]

Nope, not like that at all, actually.

Can you cite any kind of statistics, source, list of incidents, etc, where a lawful gun owners has had their 'trunk gun' stolen out of their car and then used in a criminal act?

You know, when the antis make their parallel claims, we point to stats and facts and make them aware of the fact that what they are worrying about doesn't happen.

So...please show us where this happens. Please show us the factual basis for your matter-of-fact statement about what is more likely.

 

[hso]

much more effective long gun close is crazy

It is important to point out that "effective" has different definitions. Since you are responsible for where every single round ends up it is important to factor lethal range and over penetration into your definition of "effective" when considering defensive firearms. Since LE responding are going to be looking at anyone with a rifle as a bad guy instead of a citizen you might want to factor that into the definition as well.

Looking at the frequency these very dramatic and highly televised events take place the risk is infinitesimally small and the loss of life doesn't make a blip on the overall violence statistics. OTOH, you shooting an innocent using the wrong tool at the wrong time for the wrong reason could make for a very real and tragic statistic.

 

[Jeff White]

Can you cite any kind of statistics, source, list of incidents, etc, where a lawful gun owners has had their 'trunk gun' stolen out of their car and then used in a criminal act?

Google for stories on guns stolen from law enforcement. It happens quite regularly. You will even find threads here about weapons stolen from law enforcement vehicles and then being used in a crime.

Personally I see no reason to add a long gun to what you are carrying in your vehicle. If you are actually in your vehicle when an incident like this happens your response needs to be driving away. You are just going to add to the confusion if you jump out of your vehicle with your long gun and run to the sound of gunfire. This is no different then any other active shooter situation and you are simply hanging a big target on your own back as authorities respond. Don't discount other armed citizens who might see you with your rifle and decide you are one of the bad guys.

Unless you are going to carry your rifle with you everywhere you go like you carry your pistol, the chances of you having it when you need it are pretty slim. If you are involved in one of these incidents and make it back to your vehicle you should use it to leave. Grabbing your rifle and heading back into action is putting you in the same situation I described in the paragraph above.

I've spent time carrying a rifle everywhere I went in the Infantry. It's not very convenient. I did carry a rifle in my squad car and every time I exited the car expecting that I might have to use a firearm, I took the rifle. The Colt 6920 in the rack in the car wasn't much use on calls that didn't start out with me needing a weapon in hand though.

If you feel you need to carry a long gun in your car don't let me stop you. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that it's going to make a difference. The chances are it won't.

 

[stevekozak]

I always carry a rifle with me. Trip duration and purpose determine which one. Usually, it's my old Winchester 94 30-30. Why would anyone leave their rifle at home?

I like this thinking!

 

[M1key]

I have considered it. We live close to the border. A terrorist attack is not out of the question, IMO. Anyone who summarily dismisses it in light of recent news is being foolish. Ask the ranchers who commute to town on a regular basis. Plenty of them do...

There was a time in America when folks carried long guns in the rifle rack of their pickups.

If my memory still serves me...there was a case not long ago where a Texas DPS was being attacked with his own weapon out on the highway and a hunter nearby saw what was happening and shot the assailant to death.


M

 

[stevekozak]

First off, the odds of a terrorist attack on you personally are almost non existent. But more importantly since when do Islamic terrorist car jack? Take the France incidents. What good would a long gun in a car have done anyone in the Newspaper office?

Maybe someone on scene could have loanedvit to the police? Cops at that scene were woefully under gunned. Some were reportedly gunless. Better to have it and not need it?

 

[stevekozak]

I much prefer a fire extinguisher, jumper cables and basic tools to anything more than my own personal 9mm CCW.

Someone sees a guy whip an AR out of his vehicle and start firing at 'perps', you'll be in a whole lot more risk of getting shot by LEO.

Why does long gun have to equal AR or AK these days? Many more long guns around than those high profile ones. As a poster said earlier, a lever action 30.30 makes a great truck gun.

 

[bikerdoc]

A terrorist attack is essentially an ambush by multiple, well armed people with a plan. The element of surprise is on their side, not yours.

Thee best defense against terroists is good itelligence that gets acted upon.

 

[stevekozak]

My money is on the Holland Tunnel, Queens Midtown Tunnel or GWB, and that is very unlikely. This nonsense just gets plain foolish.

Ron

Your thinking or lack thereof approaches foolishness, in my opinion. Things don't happen until they DO. To each their own, I reckon.

 

[GEM]

I'm all for carrying guns and think concealed carry of a reasonable handgun is the way to go.

Of course, there are scenarios where a long gun retrieved from a car might be useful. One can come up with such.

I would like to comment on a mall shooting or VT. At VT, the incident was over way before a civilian could go get out of the building safely and retrieve a long arm. Returning to the building with a long arm would probably cause you to have an exciting interaction with the law. Remember that Cho chained the doors - so a civilian running up with an AR - that would just interfere with police actions. Mall shootings - Tacoma for instance demonstrated a failure on the part of the conceal carrier. Going out to get a gun and returning to mall would probably get you shot by police or another CCW type.

If I'm in the mall with shots fired and you are running by with an AR or an AK - esp. the latter - I might think about shooting you.

Interesting question then - should a civilian carry an AK? Makes you look more like a nut in public. Americans carry ARs!

I hate to mention this but given what I know about the research on shootings and race - a person of color running around with a long arm probably has a higher possibility of taking friendly fire. To the moderators - race is a no-no but this is supported by real research and incidents. Also, I made this point in Concealed Carry magazine.

 

[M1key]

^^^ The Virginia Tech Board of Regents the previous year decided not to allow any firearms on campus and thus created a "killing field". Anyone--student or faculty-- with a CCW still inside the building could have taken out Cho.


SC

 

[Warp]

I hate to mention this but given what I know about the research on shootings and race - a person of color running around with a long arm probably has a higher possibility of taking friendly fire. To the moderators - race is a no-no but this is supported by real research and incidents. Also, I made this point in Concealed Carry magazine.

Official federal government statistics tell us blacks are ~13% of the total population and commit ~34% of murders.

Rifles are rarely used in crime or for murders. That's by and large the domain of handguns.

Although for a terror attack or mass/public shooting, a rifle might be the choice, but then, those are anomalies and the overall statistics don't do us much good, so the above info may not be relevant.

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Ken41: thanks for starting this thread. It has been illuminating.

 

[hatt]

A terrorist attack is essentially an ambush by multiple, well armed people with a plan. The element of surprise is on their side, not yours.

Thee best defense against terroists is good itelligence that gets acted upon.

If you're not the initial target you do indeed have the element of surprise. Mr Terrorist/thug/whatever isn't really looking for some dude 50 yards away with a carbine in his pickup