Time for a long gun as well as hand gun?

[Warp]

If you're not the initial target you do indeed have the element of surprise. Mr Terrorist/thug/whatever isn't really looking for some dude 50 yards away with a carbine in his pickup

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't assume either way.

 

[GEM]

Warp - you missed my point of how people are perceived and the risk involved.

 

[Warp]

Warp - you missed my point of how people are perceived and the risk involved.

I don't think I did.

But just in case, would you mind re-phrasing or re-stating it?

 

[GEM]

1. People in civilian clothes running around in a critical incident are at risk due to friendly fire.

2. This is seen in the shooting of plain clothes officers by uniforms. We also have anecdotal reports from officers of encountering an armed civilian running towards a critical incident.

3. Large body of studies indicated a tendency for civilians and police to perhaps misidentify people of color as carrying a weapon when they weren't. There are also studies indicating this for Hispanics (although one study didn't show this) and Middle Easterners. It has been found later that civilians with appropriate training and police with such do not show the strong bias towards shooting errors - if they have enough time to appreciate the situation. In time critical crisis or from officers that deal with more violent crime - the cognitive appreciation that reduces bias may not operated.

There is also data that suggest people with racial bias act in a more negative fashion towards people of color in these shoot/no shoot situations. But training might reduce that. Does the average truck gun guy go through this training?

4. We also know that some folks have biases towards weapons appearance and the suggestion is that this primes aggressive actions. In a critical incident, seeing someone with a long arm might make you mistake the good guy running to the rescue with such an out of place gun as the bad guy. If it is an AK truck gun - that isn't a standard issue but one associated with foreign bad guys.

If the good guy is a person of color -may there be a greater risk of friendly fire towards that person. I think that is real possibly for the factors I have mentioned. A brave Middle Easterner running to save the day with his truck AK - might an untrained CHL or an undertrained officer or stressed officer shoot the hero to be?

That's the point.

 

[stevekozak]

1. People in civilian clothes running around in a critical incident are at risk due to friendly fire.

2. This is seen in the shooting of plain clothes officers by uniforms. We also have anecdotal reports from officers of encountering an armed civilian running towards a critical incident.

3. Large body of studies indicated a tendency for civilians and police to perhaps misidentify people of color as carrying a weapon when they weren't. There are also studies indicating this for Hispanics (although one study didn't show this) and Middle Easterners. It has been found later that civilians with appropriate training and police with such do not show the strong bias towards shooting errors - if they have enough time to appreciate the situation. In time critical crisis or from officers that deal with more violent crime - the cognitive appreciation that reduces bias may not operated.

There is also data that suggest people with racial bias act in a more negative fashion towards people of color in these shoot/no shoot situations. But training might reduce that. Does the average truck gun guy go through this training?

4. We also know that some folks have biases towards weapons appearance and the suggestion is that this primes aggressive actions. In a critical incident, seeing someone with a long arm might make you mistake the good guy running to the rescue with such an out of place gun as the bad guy. If it is an AK truck gun - that isn't a standard issue but one associated with foreign bad guys.

If the good guy is a person of color -may there be a greater risk of friendly fire towards that person. I think that is real possibly for the factors I have mentioned. A brave Middle Easterner running to save the day with his truck AK - might an untrained CHL or an undertrained officer or stressed officer shoot the hero to be?

That's the point.

Do you know any brave Middle Easterners that carry a truck AK in your locale?

 

[Trent]

I'm not going to risk a high-dollar (or even cheap) rifle getting stolen from my car.

The chances of witnessing a terrorist attack in your lifetime are about the same as getting bit by a shark while being struck by lightning - simultaneously. Maybe once in a thousand lifetimes.

The chances of having your car broken in to? More than once in a lifetime.

My vehicles have been broken in to on no less than *5* occasions, as an adult.

 

[Ken41]

Mikhail, you are welcome. I never imagined that this thread would get this large. Many differing views, which shows that some people may not always think far enough ahead. I certainly hope that we do not have any type of terrorist attacks, but looking at world events, it seems inevitable that it will happen here.

Better to be prepared and use your weapon if required, than to be without one to protect yourself and innocent others. I certainly hope that if I were in the former position, that I would not run away and hide behind a bush to save my sorry-ss, and let innocent people be murdered!

 

[Apple a Day]

If you have time to run to your car then you have time to get IN your vehicle and get out of the way. Be a hero by driving a bunch of people to safety instead of going back, complicating the situation, and getting yourself shot to pieces.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I live in an area where this happens all too frequently. I don't think that a desire to carry a long gun is the result of a paranoid fantasy.

 

[Warp]

If you have time to run to your car then you have time to get IN your vehicle and get out of the way.

Maybe. Probably. Hell I'd so most likely, yes. But not guaranteed. Especially since you need more than time to drive away, you also need the ability, which isn't guaranteed (damage to vehicle, blocked in, etc).

Be a hero by driving a bunch of people to safety instead of going back, complicating the situation, and getting yourself shot to pieces.

That is an idea that may be relevant.

 

[GEM]

I'm not going to place the negative race/ethnicity card for snide remarks. I gave an evaluation of risk factors. Take it or leave.

We've had Iraqis who aided the US in the war and had to leave the country shoot with us here.

 

[M1key]

Forget terrorists. How about lunatic attack?

*Luby's massacre in Killeen, TX. 43 people shot comes to mind. I certainly remember that one.
*Batman shooting in Aurora, CO. Wife and I were actually in town when that happened.
*Fort Hood shooting......oh wait...workplace violence. That one happened close to home.

How about locking that baby down behind the seat? Plenty of options..

M

 

[redneck2]

Contributors tend to view the world through their own prism. Living in way rural Texas would constitute a different need from someone living in a large city suburb. I live in a rather rural part of Indiana but I'm not gonna start carrying a rifle any time soon.

We always carried a rifle in the truck back on the farm. But it was .22 to whack ground hogs, etc.

As for the Rambo shoot out situation, makes good movies but little to do with reality

 

[orionengnr]

Yeah, seeing as how I have not owned car/truck/4-wheel conveyance for most of my natural life, this discussion is moot for me. I ride a motorcycle every day, and my handgun stays on my person.

I've never seen the wisdom in leaving a loaded firearm in your vehicle when you are not there. The discussion of "whose fault it is" if it is stolen is irrelevant; it is the outcome that matters.

I believe it is more likely that your long gun would be stolen from your vehicle and used by criminals in a criminal act than it would be to prevent a criminal act.

That is almost verbatim the argument that the antis keep puking up about having a gun in the home, perhaps they are more correct in their thinking than we credit them?

I think I smell a straw man here. What the antis actually say is that your gun will be taken from and used against you.

Not that it makes any difference what they say; you will do as you wish. As will I.

 

[Warp]

Yeah, seeing as how I have not owned car/truck/4-wheel conveyance for most of my natural life, this discussion is moot for me. I ride a motorcycle every day, and my handgun stays on my person.

I've never seen the wisdom in leaving a loaded firearm in your vehicle when you are not there. The discussion of "whose fault it is" if it is stolen is irrelevant; it is the outcome that matters.

Depends on the circumstances, but there are plenty of situations where it makes sense to leave a [loaded or with ammunition also present] gun in the car.

I think I smell a straw man here. What the antis actually say is that your gun will be taken from and used against you.

No, it isn't. That's what they say about carrying a handgun. The comparison made was keeping a gun in your home for defense, and a lot of the antis will say that it will get stolen when you aren't home and then used criminally.

And the simple FACT is that home defense guns are stolen from homes and used in crimes. But we don't recommend against keeping a loaded HD gun in your home because of this (and most so-called safes are not that hard to defeat either).

 

[hatt]

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't assume either way.

We always make assumptions. With your attitude you should never carry. The perp would have operator skills and pop you in the head while you're trying to present your CCW. Better just let him rob the place.

 

[Warp]

We always make assumptions. With your attitude you should never carry. The perp would have operator skills and pop you in the head while you're trying to present your CCW. Better just let him rob the place.

What the heck are you talking about?

 

[hatt]

If we assume a perp is aware of everything going on in the area we may as well assume we're overmatched and shouldn't ever confront him in any way.

 

[ACP]

Warp, Jeff White essentially answered your question for me.

My point is, an unsecured weapon in a vehicle (i.e. a "truck gun") is more subject to theft than a) a handgun you have on you or b) a handgun or rifle in a safe at home. Breaking into a car/truck is easy; and unless that rifle is kept in a super-secure interior hardened steel lock box, grabbing that long gun is going to be easy, too.

If one's primary purpose is to have a long gun in your vehicle to protect against the chance of breaking up a terrorist attack and winning the Congressional Medal of Freedom, I think it's a bad risk.

And what the anti's say or do or think has ZERO influence on my personal choices, tactics or suggestions. I'm more concerned about an individual TFL member losing his/her own firearm.

 

[Apachedriver]

Contributors tend to view the world through their own prism.

Agreed.
The problem exists when the disparaging remarks and hyperbole come out in full force. Some contributors think that everyone must use the same prism to view their own parts of the world.

As for the Rambo shoot out situation, makes good movies but little to do with reality

Agreed again.
Has anyone here read Day of Wrath by William Forstchen? Interesting novella depicting a coordinated terrorist attack (unlike 9/11) on multiple locations in the US. Could that situation come to pass in the US? Sure. How likely is it to occur? I wouldn't hazard a guess in public. However, the story does well at capturing the widespread chaos, both on-scene and beyond, of a terrorist/active shooter attack. I think it captures varied human reactions pretty well, too.

In my prism, I see my CCW primarily for immediate defensive use and my long gun as primarily for offensive use. This doesn't mean I won't ever need them to adopt complementary roles. I just don't perceive a likely need for it at the present. As my world evolves, I'll adjust up or down accordingly.

 

[Baron66]

There are alot of people that prepare for the possibility of a SHTF situation or aftermath of a terrorist attack. They conveniently assume that they will be at home when it happens. Unless you always stay within a few miles of your home, it's not a bad idea to have a rifle in your vehicle.

What are you planning to do if the power grid fails or is taken out while you are traveling? That rifle might save your life in many ways.

Don't listen to the naysayers who say everyone is unlikely. People say the same thing about concealed carry. Having it doesn't hurt you and it might save lives someday.

 

[Warp]

If we assume

Ah, so the issue is that you did not read the post you replied to.

Here it is again, in its entirety:

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't assume either way.

 

[Walkalong]

Not that I have a problem keeping a rifle in your vehicle if one wants to, but thinking one is doing so to take on terrorists is a bit far fetched. Delusional even.

And, as posters have mentioned, you run the risk of theft of any firearms left in a vehicle.

I put this thread in the realm of fantasy, but I apologize in advance to anyone who thinks I used to strong of a descriptor(s).

 

[Ky Larry]

I always have a 12ga in the trunk.I don't foresee much need fot it but, better to have it and not need it,etc, ect. I always sleep better with a Winchester 1300 under the bed at home and especially at a motel/hotel.

Really tho, this seen to be a pointless discussion. You are (mostly) free to carry a long gun or not.Personal choice.

 

[Thermactor]

I keep a Cobra Assault Cannon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4KI_8Bz_ao

(just kidding)
I can't carry a loaded long gun in my car in this state - to the best of my knowledge.