Tiny 9mm's to eclipse the .380?

[Uncle Alvah]

I am looking for a small handgun for CCW.
At first I was thinking along the lines of a Bersa .380, or even waiting on that new .380 from Ruger.
However, once I got looking around the stores, I came across the Kel Tec PF-9, and have to say I was pretty impressed. It's a very tidy package.
Being that the 9mm is available in, it would seem, increasingly smallerconfused handguns, and ammo options are extensive, for what reason would someone opt for the various .380 offerings out there? Smaller gun still?

 

[herohog]

I got the Kel-Tek P11 (10+ 1 9mm rounds in a DA only palm pistol). It is way more accurate than I would have ever thought. It is also smaller and lighter than my Titan II .380 and has a higher capacity! More power and a small package? Hell yeah!

 

[blackcash88]

Get the S&W mags and your P11 will have a 12+1 capacity.

 

[rcmodel]

Not much reason for a .380 the size & weight of a Bersa or Walther PPK anymore.
Unless you just like .380's.

9mm practice ammo is cheaper, and the guns are now as small or smaller.

Walther PPK/S BUG?
That's what my Kel-Tec P3AT replaced.

rcmodel

 

[wanderinwalker]

Back after Christmas I was looking at getting a small pistol. I looked at Kel-Tec P-32s, 3ATs, a Glock 26, snubby revolvers and others. In the end, I plunked down my cash for a K-T PF-9 in hard chrome.

The PF-9 (and I'm going to assume the Kahrs and Walther PPS among others in the same size range) is just barely pocketable, hides well on a belt IMO, and I'm sure would go great in an overcoat pocket or ankle holster. It is reasonably accurate out to 25 yards, and most importantly, gives me 8 rounds of 9mm +P hollow points, reliably.

That last is the only sticky part of the small 9mms. It seems these pistols, especially the mini-Kahrs and Kel-Tecs, have a tendency to not always run 100%. Some shooters seem more prone to it, but I think the pistols are just at the edge of size/power for good reliable function. My K-T had some issues at first, but really hit its stride after about 300-400 rounds.

Now, the .380 and .32 come into their own in the really small BUGs like the P-32s, the new Ruger LCP, NAA Guardian and others. Good luck waiting for a 9mm that small...

 

[searcher451]

+1 on the relatively new Walther PPS. It's available now in 9mm, the .40 S&W is due out any day (some folks report them, but Smith says mass distribution will likely be later this month), and the gun is receiving solid reviews from its owners. I've got an FE model and can attest to its reliability and accuracy. It's also easy to conceal, which is more or less the point.

 

[tblt]

Iwould go Kahr cw series before kel tec

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

... for what reason would someone opt for the various .380 offerings out there? Smaller gun still?

You got it. There are sometimes dress or social situations when even something like a Kahr PM9 is a little big, but something the size of a Seecamp (rare and expensive in the .380 version), Kel-Tec or Ruger LCP would be just right.

 

[dhoomonyou]

GLOCK 26, u might have to dress around it a bit, but its worth it.

 

[scurtis_34471]

Here is my hierachy of carry and how it relates to your question.

When I can comfortably hide it under a roomy cover garment, I carry an XD-40 Service in a belt holster.

When I need something a little more concealed, I go with an XD-40 Subcompact in an IWB holster.

When I need something I can hide with a tuckable IWB or put inside my pocket, I carry a Kahr P9 Covert.

When the Kahr is too big or prints too much (some dress slacks), something the size of a Ruger LCP would be perfect.

In other words, I carry the biggest thing I can get away with.

 

[jakeswensonmt]

The P11 I carry has been very reliable . Once when I first got it, the slide locked back with ammo still in the mag, but this may not have been a malfunction, I was still working out how to best grip it and I may have inadvertently pushed the slide release up with an errant thumb.

It's nice to have 10+1 rounds of 9mm in such a compact package, DAO with second-strike capability. The only downside of the tiny 9's is that recoil is brisk, they'll leave your palm tingling.

 

[Soybomb]

the pf9 is significantly bigger then the p3at, to me its the difference between a pocket gun and not. ymmv.

 

[makarovnik]

Many people say you should practice shooting you primary weapon. Problem is some of the micro-nines are so painful to shoot you won't want to practice with it.

The .380 is a comfortable round to shoot, especially in a locked breach system. It also does not have the tendancy to overpenetrate like the 9mm luger. That makes me more comfortable if I have to defend myself when inncent bystanders are near.

Don't write off the Bersas, PPK's and Sig 232's just yet.

Concealable, reliable, accurate, durable and comfortable to shoot. Not to mention the FF (fondle factor).

 

[71Commander]

These 9mm's are the size of a 3AT. Front shirt pocket size.

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/downloads/gunbrochure04.pdf

 

[The Bushmaster]

I carry a M43 9mm X 19 Firestar all steel (it's heavy for its size) and I know how much felt recoil it has. The mini 9s have to be brutal...

 

[Grayrider]

To me Kahr buried the need for a .380 compact pistol. My P9 is easy to shoot, easy to conceal, reliable, accurate, and provides me with all the advantages of 9mm over .380. I just do not understand the continued appeal of .380s other than price save for in nations where 9mm is restricted.

John

 

[Eastex]

I've been a fan of the Interarms PPK, .380, nice shooting pistol, but tempermental. I'm trying out the XD9sc, and it does comfort me to be able to shoot 147grn JHP rather than .380 FMJ. And 9mm WWB is 1/2 the price of .380. Next gun show, I'll check out the Kahr.

 

[DawgFvr]

Small, compact autos are notorious for malfunctioning. I don't care what model or make...anything smaller than a Commander size auto is on my "concern" list. Even Commander size and Full size autos need the utmost care/lubrication/spring replacement-at-times/and training for reliable performance. Please do not bore me or the rest of the board with comments on just how reliable your particular brand has performed for you. Carry it long enough in that pocket full of lint; fire it on more than a couple of times a year… and it will malfunction…multiple times and, as luck will have it, probably the worst possible time: when you need it. Now...there are occasions when I, too, carry a .380 (and yes, the Ruger and P3AT are smaller and are far easier to grasp/draw out of a pocket scenario than any Kahr) on occasion, e.g., when wearing a suit, tuxedo, or some other dress code that hinders a real weapon. The S&W 642 revolver is the real-deal answer for most pocket carrying situations in my neck of the woods. "Five for sure" is more than just a logo IMHO. If you are one of those people that must have more than five rounds…then carry two snubbies.

 

[Southern6er]

May want to look at the Walther PPS in 9mm... pretty small AND THIN!!!!

http://www.gunblast.com/Walther-PPS.htm

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/waltherthin_091807/

 

[cal45]

Iwould go Kahr before kel tec CW series

What is a Kel-Tec CW series?

 

[XDKingslayer]

I have a Taurus MilPro in .380 and a Bersa .380. I like the .380 round. It's a great round for beginners especially younger kids and women. The Bersa I got because my wife had trouble working the slide of every other semi-auto we tried and she didn't feel comfortable with revolvers. I enjoy shooting the little Bersa and run at least 100 rounds through it every range trip.

Most of the smaller 9mms are nice weapons, but my wife can't work them or they are a bear to actually take to the range and enjoy due to recoil. I don't mind it, but the wife and kids do.

And considering the wife enjoys shooting it, it makes her want to shoot it more and she's become proficient enough at shooting it that she wants to use it as her daily carry piece.

And if it takes the lowly .380 to get my wife to enjoy shooting and wanting to carry a weapon for her protection, then it's the best damn caliber out there hands down.

 

[romma]

Thos new kahr P380s look like a winner to me... Still. pricey as heck though.

 

[RyanM]

Not much reason for a .380 the size & weight of a Bersa or Walther PPK anymore.
Unless you just like .380's.

9mm practice ammo is cheaper, and the guns are now as small or smaller.

Yep. Inexpensive 9mms are now available that are the size of the .380s of yesteryear. On the other hand, inexpensive .380s like the P3AT are basically the size of the .25s of yesteryear, so the cartridge still has its place.

I want to see a multi-shot .25 that's made absolutely as small as modern engineering and materials will allow (other than concessions for ergonomics), like the Seecamp .380 and Rohrbaugh R9.

 

[blackcash88]

I think the Baby Browning already holds that title...

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I think since .380's can be blowback and 9's can't the .380 will always be smaller. However despite the similar size of the two rounds, there's a pretty big difference in performance so if you can handle the extra size a 9mm is a good way to go.

For pocket pistols, small differences in size are amplified, that extra 1/2" of grip or 1/4" of width or 3oz can feel like several inches/pounds after carrying it all day. Also, given the size and weight of my p3at I think it would be downright painful to shoot a 9mm with the same dimensions and weight.

The Kahrs are nice but expensive. The Rohrbaughs are very nice but very expensive (that's Kimber/Springfield micro 1911 territory).