blackcash88
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Although not small or pocketable, there are blowback 9mm pistols out there. Hi Point for one...and the Ring of Fire companies made blowback 9mms as well.
Tiny 9mm's to eclipse the .380?
- Thread starter Uncle Alvah
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redneckrepairs
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I have a Kahr pm9 that is dead nuts reliable and it has to a degree made my .380s safe queens , for instance i re finished my ppk/s and put it up . I still have a Kel-tec p3at tho that is just too small and slim to give up totally for ccw .
blackcash88
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I'm in exactly the same situation. I love my reliable PM9 and keep the P3AT as a "BUG BUG". Hardly ever gets carried anymore.
Rex B
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I have 5 or 6 .380s, all are smaller than a PF9 or a P11.
I can always carry my P3AT. I rarely - almost never - carry the P11.
Last week I tried carrying a Llama .380. Smaller than a P11, but twice as heavy.
I didn't like that. The weight gapped my pocket open.
IWB just doesn't work for me, has to be pocket pistols.
I can always carry my P3AT. I rarely - almost never - carry the P11.
Last week I tried carrying a Llama .380. Smaller than a P11, but twice as heavy.
I didn't like that. The weight gapped my pocket open.
IWB just doesn't work for me, has to be pocket pistols.
blackcash88
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You just haven't found the right IWB belt/holster combo. 
I mostly carry a 9MM either with a CZ-75D PCR or HK P7M8, however, I have no problem carrying my Beretta M85FS, single stack .380. Its slim, light and accurate. Its usually my summer carry choice. Nothing wrong with a "full size" .380.
MCgunner
Member
The KT is a fine shootin' 9 and I agree, they make many .380s obsolete. RyanM nailed it, though, the little .380s like the Ruger you mention are TINY! They are the size of .25s of a latter day. I find my P11 to be extremely concealable, pocketable for over 95 percent of my needs, though. All these little 9s came along about the time shall issue CCW permits were coming about. Without the market created by the new carry laws in the 90s, we might not have all these really nifty little 9s.
The Rohrbaugh is the tiniest. It isn't +P rated, but it's a 9. Rather pricey, though, and I like the firepower of my P11.
The Rohrbaugh is the tiniest. It isn't +P rated, but it's a 9. Rather pricey, though, and I like the firepower of my P11.
redneckrepairs
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shot a friends , i still own the kahr and not it .
blackcash88
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That said, the P11 still has the worst trigger I've ever used on any firearm.
MCgunner
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The P11's trigger is long, but fairly light compared to revolvers. It is very smooth, or mine is anyway. It's been fired over 11,000 times. Probably fluffed and buffed itself by now. It's very accurate. I get 3.5" rested 25 yard groups with it.
I like the P11 precisely for its trigger as a pocket gun and I've shot it so much, it's just sorta part of my arm. I used to burn a couple hundred rounds of reloads in it without a problem in a range session. Recoil is NOTHING compared to my SP101 with full house 140JHP reloads and I shoot 50 rounds of hot stuff out of that now and then for fun. I used to buy a couple of boxes of WWB now and then for the P11, shoots well with that stuff, but prices what they are now, I've got back to the Dillon progressive for my 9mm needs.
I like the P11 precisely for its trigger as a pocket gun and I've shot it so much, it's just sorta part of my arm. I used to burn a couple hundred rounds of reloads in it without a problem in a range session. Recoil is NOTHING compared to my SP101 with full house 140JHP reloads and I shoot 50 rounds of hot stuff out of that now and then for fun.
I used to buy a couple of boxes of WWB now and then for the P11, shoots well with that stuff, but prices what they are now, I've got back to the Dillon progressive for my 9mm needs. JohnBT
Member
"The Rohrbaugh is the tiniest."
"shot a friends , i still own the kahr and not it ."
___________
Okay, I'll bite. Why? His wasn't for sale? You couldn't afford it? I mean, come on, why? You're still making payments on the Kahr?
I can understand if you simply didn't like the R9, but your post gives no clue as to your reason for still owning the Kahr.
I like the R9. Everything except the price that is, but I've recovered financially after buying one last year.
John
"shot a friends , i still own the kahr and not it ."
___________
Okay, I'll bite. Why? His wasn't for sale? You couldn't afford it? I mean, come on, why? You're still making payments on the Kahr?
I can understand if you simply didn't like the R9, but your post gives no clue as to your reason for still owning the Kahr.
I like the R9. Everything except the price that is, but I've recovered financially after buying one last year.
John
I carry a PPK/S alot of the time. That being said I also own multiple small handguns including a mk9, cw9, j-frames, kel-tecs, and a seecamp. For me its not about weight or caliber. I love my PPK vs my other small guns because of the way it shoots, my "hands on" time with the gun and being super comfortable with it, the reliable track record I have with it. And of course the fondle factor. Its a gun that will always have a spot on my hip before any other.
MachIVshooter
Member
See:
They just don't come any smaller than the Baby Browning (or the Bauer copy of the Browning). I own two of the Bauers. Here's one next to my Kel-Tec P32:
Might be able to slim them a *tad*, but otherwise you really can't make an automatic any smaller. Below these are the NAA mini .22 short with 5/8" tube. I'd rather have my Bauer.
johnnylaw53
Member
Dawgfur seems to be right on. I've been carrying for about 28 years now. I really like large auto's in uniform. For off duty and durning my tour in undercover assignments, which i did for 7 years I tried quite a few small auto's and found that I really couldn't trust them no matter who made them just so much going on when you shooting them slide going back ejecting the case stripping a new round loading it and all this happening very fast if anything is off just a little you will get a jam. I too have settle on a 642 for back up and off duty now. In those rare times when that is a little big I take my NAA mini in 22 lr. as far as tiny 9mm' exlipse the .380 remember the people who make these things are in bussiness to make money they will make what will sell and they do a very good job at it and many of the small offerings are quite good but will never be as sure as a large auto just remember sometimes they will push the envelope a bit too far.
KevininPa
Member
Just not ready to give up my Sig 232SL yet.
Though that is pretty tiny, the Seecamp 380s give even Baby Brownings a run for their money.
Seecamp .380 next to a KT P3AT. Photo stolen from the Seecamp forum.
Given that during the same time period the Baby Browning was designed, the Walther PPK was the absolute smallest that a .380 could be made, I'm betting that if you applied the same engineering that was used to make the Seecamp .380 possible, you'd end up with a very small .25. It would need enough slide travel and length to feed the rounds, enough of a grip for the magazine, and a 2" barrel, but that's about it.
Another example of early 20th century engineering, the 2.7mm Kolibri. Pictured next to a round of .45 ACP http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Kolibri_AdamsGuns.jpg
mljdeckard
Member
I used to say that .380s are appropriate for people who must have a very compact pistol. But ever since the sub-compact Glocks have been available in 9mm, .40, .357 sig, .45 acp, and .45 gap, I can't justify carrying a .380, unless you just absolutely cannot adjust to using a Glock at all.
There are also options like the compact and sub-compact 1911s, particularly the Springfield EMP. Kel-tecs and Secamps are cool, but REALLY, do they shoot as well as other sub-compacts in heavier cartridges? Use what works best for YOU, but I wouldn't ever trade an EMP for any .380.
There are also options like the compact and sub-compact 1911s, particularly the Springfield EMP. Kel-tecs and Secamps are cool, but REALLY, do they shoot as well as other sub-compacts in heavier cartridges? Use what works best for YOU, but I wouldn't ever trade an EMP for any .380.
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scurtis_34471
Member
Some of you guys have brought up the Rohrbaugh and I will admit that it is a very well-made little gun. Its got fantastic "fondle factor" and a wonderful trigger. I've got a friend who had one and I loved the gun right up to the moment I pulled the trigger. It is EXTREMELY unpleasant to shoot. I put two 6-round magazines through it and that was more than enough. Its kind of like shooting a .357 snubby, but with a much thinner and shorter grip that is too small to get a good grip on. My hand was sore after 12 rounds.
Lonestar49
Member
Quote: I am looking for a small handgun for CCW.
At first I was thinking along the lines of a Bersa .380, or even waiting on that new .380 from Ruger.
However, once I got looking around the stores, I came across the Kel Tec PF-9, and have to say I was pretty impressed. It's a very tidy package.
Being that the 9mm is available in, it would seem, increasingly smaller() handguns, and ammo options are extensive, for what reason would someone opt for the various .380 offerings out there? Smaller gun still?
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...
For the very reasons that many have mentioned about the size's now offered in 9mm vs 380's and the big difference in the 9mm vs 380acp, and avoiding a blow-back action that gets one's gun dirty really fast, both in the feed ramp areas, and mags interior walls, favors guns that do not use a blow-back action IMO. Staying cleaner longer, less "must cleanings", and far more round counts that favor the full 9mm that, in my comparisons, can go 800 rounds, easy, vs only 230 rounds with my Sig P232 SL 380's before I have to do a complete cleaning, or else she'll jam once per mag, from then on 90% of the time..
So, size wise, round count wise, forgiveness wise, more accurate wise, weight wise, gun size wise, and having an option of DA/SA vs SAO, locked and cocked, I went with an SA EMP 1911 10+1 vs Sigs 380's 7+1 and must say that once again, it's in the grip of the EMP, that makes it such a great, point to aim, very very accurate shooter, and ccw use.
Ls
Pic gives ya a great size comparisons.. close
Ooops, wrong pic
Here we go
Another view from the top
At first I was thinking along the lines of a Bersa .380, or even waiting on that new .380 from Ruger.
However, once I got looking around the stores, I came across the Kel Tec PF-9, and have to say I was pretty impressed. It's a very tidy package.
Being that the 9mm is available in, it would seem, increasingly smaller() handguns, and ammo options are extensive, for what reason would someone opt for the various .380 offerings out there? Smaller gun still?
------------
...
For the very reasons that many have mentioned about the size's now offered in 9mm vs 380's and the big difference in the 9mm vs 380acp, and avoiding a blow-back action that gets one's gun dirty really fast, both in the feed ramp areas, and mags interior walls, favors guns that do not use a blow-back action IMO. Staying cleaner longer, less "must cleanings", and far more round counts that favor the full 9mm that, in my comparisons, can go 800 rounds, easy, vs only 230 rounds with my Sig P232 SL 380's before I have to do a complete cleaning, or else she'll jam once per mag, from then on 90% of the time..
So, size wise, round count wise, forgiveness wise, more accurate wise, weight wise, gun size wise, and having an option of DA/SA vs SAO, locked and cocked, I went with an SA EMP 1911 10+1 vs Sigs 380's 7+1 and must say that once again, it's in the grip of the EMP, that makes it such a great, point to aim, very very accurate shooter, and ccw use.
Ls
Pic gives ya a great size comparisons.. close
Ooops, wrong pic
Here we go
Another view from the top
10-Ring
Member
Size wise, I like the Kahrs, but if it's going to be a shooter, I'd go w/ the Glock 26 or HK P2000sk in 9mm
blackcash88
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Why? Kahrs make great shooters. They now all have the nice, smooth Elite trigger group and are very accurate.
KevininPa
Member
I would love to go with an EMP .........
........but the price tag on one of those is still way beyond my means .
........but the price tag on one of those is still way beyond my means
.PM9
Kahr PM9 any day for this shooter. Mine has went bang 9900 perfect times. Just can't do any better than that. These are not "shoot seldom and carry often guns". they are made to shoot and shoot. Mine shows zero signs anywhere of wear, not one place, Have only replaced the outer recoils springs twice, just because I felt I should. Very high quality, super trigger system, match grade barrel, and extrmely pleasant to shoot. Can't say any different about my kahr k9 either. I has 3300 flawless rounds through it, super accurate and I love it for my range gun, just doesn't conceal like my PM9 does, but oh what a nice gun it is. can't wait till the P380 kahr comes out, a micro twin to the PM9 and smaller than the ruger and kt 380. hard to believe that, but it is true, and only 9.9 ounces...
Kahr PM9 any day for this shooter. Mine has went bang 9900 perfect times. Just can't do any better than that. These are not "shoot seldom and carry often guns". they are made to shoot and shoot. Mine shows zero signs anywhere of wear, not one place, Have only replaced the outer recoils springs twice, just because I felt I should. Very high quality, super trigger system, match grade barrel, and extrmely pleasant to shoot. Can't say any different about my kahr k9 either. I has 3300 flawless rounds through it, super accurate and I love it for my range gun, just doesn't conceal like my PM9 does, but oh what a nice gun it is. can't wait till the P380 kahr comes out, a micro twin to the PM9 and smaller than the ruger and kt 380. hard to believe that, but it is true, and only 9.9 ounces...
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