Tired of having the taper erased from your .30 Carbine brass?

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I just loaded my first batch of .30 carbine using new Starline brass, so I am all ears. I am using a set of vintage RCBS steel dies - will those remove the taper? Since you have to lube the cases anyway and my volume will be low, I didn't see the point in going with carbide dies.
 
Whiterook808 said:
I just loaded my first batch of .30 carbine using new Starline brass, so I am all ears. I am using a set of vintage RCBS steel dies - will those remove the taper? Since you have to lube the cases anyway and my volume will be low, I didn't see the point in going with carbide dies.
Click to expand...

Your good to go with std steel dies. No problem.
 
Carbide sizing ring is only at the base of the case and only sizes the very bottom of the case unless Im missing something. 30 Carbine is an odd duck being that most die sets also include an expander like a pistol die set would but the only die sets that Ive seen that are carbide are from Lee and RCBS.

Here are the headspace gage drawings. You can see the taper there. The die should be cut internally to bring the neck into spec. The carbide portion of the die is at the base and is used to get the base of the case which is generally the most blown out are back into shape.

30-carbine-gage-jpg.jpg
 
The taper doesn't get "erased" by carbide sizer dies.
Click to expand...
Wanna bet? That's why Redding introduced their Dual Ring Carbide Sizer Die.
Redding has solved the problem that has plagued ordinary carbide dies since their invention. The little ring in a standard carbide die had to do double duty. It sized the top of the case to properly hold the bullet but then continued to size the whole body of the case as well. Unfortunately, these two areas need to be sized at different diameters, so carbide dies of the past have always been a compromise.
Click to expand...
 
Since most of the die manufacturers, including Lee with their 3 die set, recommend using lubricant when sizing with 30 Carbine carbide dies, I bought steel dies when I bought my 30 Carbine die set. Since I was going to have to use lubricant anyway, why waste the extra bucks on a carbide die.

That said, many folks do resize their 30 Carbine cases in carbide dies without lubricant.
 
I can't attest to Lee .30 Carbine carbide sizing dies, because I've never used them, but RCBS and Dillon carbide sizing dies for the .30 Carbine have full length carbide inserts, not sizing rings. I do use case lube when sizing with .30 Carbine carbide sizing dies. It takes less effort and less stress on the brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I have, and use, a Lee Carbide.30Carbine sizer die.
What is the question or issue?

It restores the original taper, and sizes the front 1/2" or so, just like a Lyman set I have.
I do lube the cases the same way as I do 9mm brass prior to sizing in a carbide die. ( spray a small "spritz" of furniture spray wax in a plastic container, place approximately 100 cases on top of lube, swirl and tumble till cases are lightly coated).
 
GooseGestapo said:
I have, and use, a Lee Carbide.30Carbine sizer die.
What is the question or issue?

It restores the original taper, and sizes the front 1/2" or so, just like a Lyman set I have.
I do lube the cases the same way as I do 9mm brass prior to sizing in a carbide die. ( spray a small "spritz" of furniture spray wax in a plastic container, place approximately 100 cases on top of lube, swirl and tumble till cases are lightly coated).
Click to expand...
I assume it's the full size die?
 
Belted30Carbine.JPG I've covered this is a separate thread but here it is one more time. A Starline .30 Carbine case after having been resized by a Dillon carbide die. I definitely think this puppy is the victim of a carbide ring.
 
It's not a carbide ring, per se. The insert is the whole length of the case, rather than a short ring like .38/.357 carbide dies. The Dillon die you had suffered from a sharp leading edge at the mouth of the die. If there had been some radius at the mouth of the insert, it wouldn't have cut into the case like that.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
. Redding does not offer this dual ring in M1 Carbine, yet.

The Lee M1 Carbine sizing die is the only one I'm aware of that has 2 carbide rings They added the second ring to accommodate it's taper, that why it is a lot more expensive compared to their other sizing dies. I did a comparison to 4 other brands of sizing dies. Lee's was the only one that actually full length matches the SAMMI specs for sized cases .
 
The lee 9MM dies are a carbide ring and mine do fine with the tapered 9MM brass. My Lee 30 Carbine dies are the carbide ones and do not make my brass look like that picture. Mine size with a radius. I will have to look into the die and see if there is a ring or full carbide insert. Seems no matter what die you use they are hard to size compared to other "straight walled" brass like the 9MM IMHO.
 
jski said:
ReloaderFred, Dillon sent another die. Same results.
Click to expand...
Fred is still right IMHO. That is what causes that buildup on the case. A better leading edge to the carbide insert and that doesn't happen.
 
I have the Lee 3 die carbide set.

Mixed brass (trimmed)

No case gauge used. Some are already deprimed and pre resized
Lubed ( I lube everything)

Load them and shoot them in 3 different carbines,

Never worried to much about waist lines

Living life in the fast lane.
 
Just spoke to a Lee quality engineer. He told me their “full length carbide” dies have a carbide sleeve the full length of the case (minus the rim) and are tapered to SAAMI specs. The same for all tapered straight walled cases, e.g., .30 Carbine, 9mm.

So yes, they’re the only ones with a carbide die that doesn’t erase the taper.
 
My RCBS Carbide .30 Carbine sizing die doesn't "erase the taper". It sizes the cases correctly, and I've owned this particular set of dies for 40 years (1978). It does the job correctly, simply because the die was made correctly. Whatever shop is making the .30 Carbine carbide sizing dies for Dillon isn't making them correctly. At least for the two dies you had. Dillon has jobbed out their dies for years, and I've even got one that's marked "Dillion" that came from Dillon. When I questioned the rep about it, he said the jobber stamped it wrong, and they get all kinds of "stuff" back from the jobbers.

You can't make the blanket statement that Lee is the only one that doesn't "erase the taper", as you put it, because it's simply not true. You should see some of the Lee dies I've got from Lee "Precision"..........

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
ReloaderFred,

I bet it is erasing the taper. Open up your RCBS sizing die and check out the sizing surface. I bet it’s a ring. If so, it can’t help but erase the taper. Just the way it is.

That’s why Lee is offering a “full size” carbide die and Redding is offering its “dual ring” carbide die.
 
jski said:
Just spoke to a Lee quality engineer. He told me their “full length carbide” dies have a carbide sleeve the full length of the case (minus the rim) and are tapered to SAAMI specs.
Click to expand...
That's good then.
jski said:
ReloaderFred,

I bet it is erasing the taper.
Click to expand...
I'm betting on Fred, he has been at this a long time and is very knowledgeable. :)
 
My RCBS carbide .30 Carbine sizing die has a ring. Maybe older ones had a sleeve? But I’m dubious.
 
Long tapered carbide inserts for .30 Carbine is why those dies cost more. There used to be an upcharge for the 9mm P because it is tapered and gets a longer insert, but seems like they are the same as straight calibers now.
 
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