Titegroup or W231?

[AJC1]

So many folks are buying so muck more than they need it’s extending the shortage/high prices.

It’s showing signs of getting better, let’s let it.

Honestly hand loaders get the leftovers and the war demand continues to increase in Ukraine... the federal orders will take priority so it was getting better but I feel we're in for another dip... I apologize for the politics, but in this case are a major factor....

 

[LiveLife]

So many folks are buying so muck more than they need it’s extending the shortage/high prices.

It’s showing signs of getting better, let’s let it.

Yup ... I am not stocking up quite yet ... I don't believe we have hit the bottom yet.

I picked up some pistol/rifle powders from Powder Valley in 2021 when they became initially available but will hold off before I restock for retirement.

Same for 22LR ... watching from the sidelines for the bottom - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-shipped-pricing.902560/page-12#post-12634557

19 lb Powder Valley order of Titegroup, No. 2, H335 and BL-C(2). Much of the order at cost shipped was shared with those in need of powder.

 

[LiveLife]

Honestly hand loaders get the leftovers and the war demand continues to increase in Ukraine... the federal orders will take priority so it was getting better but I feel we're in for another dip

We have discussed the supply/demand cycles of component shortage to death.

During the past decades, hundreds of millions of firearms were sold with many gun stores selling more guns in several years than what they sold the entire time they have been open

< Let that sink in a bit >

So added to normal reloading component demand from existing reloaders, how many new reloaders were added during the past decades? Likely A LOT as when loaded ammunition disappear from the shelves, in the age of Google and Youtube, new gun owners are likely to learn QUICKLY about the viability of reloading.

And that I believe is what is driving this current protracted component shortage primarily and aggravated by pandemic supply chain issue/inflation/war in Ukraine, etc. etc.

Believe me, when you are selling 25-30+ million guns a year (Not to mention countless 80% AR15s/Glocks), demand added to the supply & demand equation will get lopsided and tip over FAST.

Of course, my humble opinion.

Good news is like previous shortages, 22LR price trends have been an early precursor to component shortage bottoming and we are around $25/500 shipped pricing and FALLING - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-shipped-pricing.902560/page-12#post-12634557

So we certainly haven't seen the bottom of component pricing and I anticipate further drop (Unless some people do some crazy stock piling from panic that @Walkalong mentioned ).

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I shoot Titegroup and BE-86 in my 9mms only, and have for over a decade. It does scorch the cases but it washes right off in my Ultrasonic.
DudeDog's been getting me to try new things lately and he likes WSF, but I can't find powder around here since the pandemic started, so I am just shooting what I have, which is probably a good thing, because I had too much powder before the pandemic hit.

I've found Titegroup to be very accurate but If I couldn't get Titegroup I would be looking for 231. It's my second favorite, especially for 115gr bullets.
BE86 also works well in 9mm as with WSF, WST, and the others LIveLife mentioned. , but I tend to save BE-86 for my .357 mag loads for better case fill.
You won't have any problems with 231, It is one of the premier powders for 9mm as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DMW1116]

I use HS-6 for my Heavy Match Winner loads from RMR. Titegroup has shown to be just as accurate, at least in test loads. I have not tried W231 but have a bunch so that seems like the next set of test loads in 9mm. I plan to stick with what works (HS-6) but it’s nice to have options.

 

[LiveLife]

I shoot Titegroup and BE-86 in my 9mms only

DudeDog's been getting me to try new things lately and he likes WSF

WSF is good powder for 9mm/40S&W and was my USPSA powder choice for 40S&W to make major power factor (I used W231/HP-38 for minor PF loads) and was flexible enough to produce accuracy at mid-to-high range load data. I also used WSF to replicate factory premium JHP like Gold Dot/Golden Saber to load practice rounds using same projectiles for higher velocities and accuracy it produced for decades - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/40_Smith__Wesson_165.pdf

But when BE-86 was released (Claimed to be OEM powder used for various factory JHP ammunition for decades), I found it produced smaller groups than most other powders I used for 9mm except WST and replaced WSF for higher velocities and smaller groups it produced. It consistently produced smaller groups than other powders for 40S&W and when Dudedog met me at the range to verify in person smaller groups BE-86 produced found skeptical by some THR members, produced smallest 25 yard 5 shot group shot off hand resting on top of small ice chest (BTW, 40S&W needs to be loaded longer than SAAMI max of 1.135" to optimize accuracy) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-favorite-pistol-powder.916731/#post-12568923

 

[Tall]

I bought a pound of Titegroup recently. I tried it in some 38 WCF cases. It gets really hot in my revolver. Not terribly impressed by it. The muzzle / barrel was so hot it got this humidity on it which I have never seen previously. The frosty looking barrel disappeared when it cooled down.

Very different than 231 which I like a lot.

 

[irishlad]

I bought a pound of Titegroup recently. I tried it in some 38 WCF cases. It gets really hot in my revolver. Not terribly impressed by it. The muzzle / barrel was so hot it got this humidity on it which I have never seen previously. The frosty looking barrel disappeared when it cooled down.

Very different than 231 which I like a lot.

View attachment 1153938

Wow! That would have drove me crazy, until it went away.

 

[J-Bar]

The muzzle / barrel was so hot it got this humidity on it which I have never seen previously. The frosty looking barrel disappeared when it cooled down.
View attachment 1153938

This statement confuses me. Moisture/humidity condenses on surfaces that are colder than the surrounding air, not hotter. I don't know what the frosty stuff on the muzzle is, but I don't think it's water.

 

[AJC1]

Tightgroup is the first powder I ever used. I've loaded it in 9mm, 38, 45acp. It's a decent powder but nothing special. I've only used hp38 just a few tests in 9mm. I prefer slower powders so neither is first choice. For volume tg is very economical so I'd choose that if you already like it. I haven't experienced the heat issue, but I don't shoot fast... I cherish every reload...

 

[cfullgraf]

I have bought and used only one pound of Titegroup. I’ve only shot it in 38 Special wadcutter target load. The powder charge recommended on the container stuck bullets in the barrel of in my 6” Smith Model 14. Upping the charge fixed that and I could use up the “weak” ammunition in my 2” S&W revolvers.

I was not pleased at the “disconnect” in the data so once I used up the pound of Titegroup I had, it will be the last.

W231/HP38 has been a staple in my powder inventory for decades for a number of uses.

Lots of folks like Titegroup and that is ok in my book. I just don’t.

 

[Tall]

This statement confuses me. Moisture/humidity condenses on surfaces that are colder than the surrounding air, not hotter. I don't know what the frosty stuff on the muzzle is, but I don't think it's water.

Whatever it was it was gone when the barrel cooled down. I've never had a barrel that hot before.

 

[J-Bar]

Whatever it was it was gone when the barrel cooled down. I've never had a barrel that hot before.

I've used a lot of Titegroup in cowboy action matches and never seen anything like it either. I wonder if it could have been something from the bullet lube getting vaporized and deposited around the muzzle?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I bought a pound of Titegroup recently. I tried it in some 38 WCF cases. It gets really hot in my revolver. Not terribly impressed by it. The muzzle / barrel was so hot it got this humidity on it which I have never seen previously. The frosty looking barrel disappeared when it cooled down.

Very different than 231 which I like a lot.

View attachment 1153938

I've never seen anything like that either in the 9lbs of Titegroup I used so far over the last 10 years.
But I don't use it in anything except 9mm.

 

[Tall]

I've used a lot of Titegroup in cowboy action matches and never seen anything like it either. I wonder if it could have been something from the bullet lube getting vaporized and deposited around the muzzle?

The bullets were jacketed hollow points so there was no lube.

 

[Mark G]

I just purchased a few pounds of Titegroup yesterday from Powder Valley. I plan on switching from Bullseye for my 9 mm 124 grain loads. The pricing seems very attractive and their hazard shipping cost is one of the lowest around. I could not find the Bullseye at a reasonable price.

 

[Nature Boy]

HP 38 /Win 231 is pretty much all I use for handgun calibers. For a faster powder I use BE.

Same here. Tried some others but HP-38 works so well that I just stick with it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I tried Titegroup for a bit and was just not very comfortable with it. HP-38 is my standby for many handgun calibers, but I've found that I prefer others for 9mm. Mostly N320, N310, Cleanshot, SportPistol, and e3 depending on the bullet weight I'm loading for

 

[Stefan A]

Titegroup solved the problem of hot splatter to my face when shooting 45 colt. Other than that, I don’t use it.

 

[ReloaderNoob]

What's the High Road discount code at RMR?

You will be giving up Titegroup that burns hot and violent for slight reduction in accuracy from W231, especially noticeable in 9mm due to small internal case volume that expresses even small change in reloading variables. For other calibers you listed, you likely won't notice the difference in accuracy. It is temperature sensitive (Slower when cold) so if you are loading for match shooting power factor, you will need to add more powder to produce the same velocities.

BTW, Titegroup is preferred by many match shooters as indicated by this USPSA equipment survey - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-11#post-12415502

• Limited/L10 (40S&W 88%/9mm 12%) - N320 23%, Titegroup 22%, Sport Pistol 11%, WST 5%
• Production (9mm) - Titegroup 35%, N320 23%, Sport Pistol 16%
• PCC (9mm) - Titegroup 31%, Sport Pistol 18%, N320 16%, Clean Shot 11%

But some bullseye match shooters still prefer W231/HP-38.

• Bullseye matches - Bullseye/N310/N320/700-X/Clays/Titegroup/WST/W231(HP-38)

And FYI, HP-38 is same exact powder as W231 so if you can't find W231 but find HP-38, you can use it as same.

Here's close up of W231/HP-38

Both Titegroup and W231/HP-38 are flattened ball powder and meters well with around .12 gr variance for me. Titegroup has surface crinkles that may induce slight "bridging" while W231/HP-38 flows more readily so that may be a consideration when loading smaller charges for 380Auto.

9mm 115 gr FMJ/RN with 4.8 gr of W231 loaded to 1.130"-1.135" is my 9mm reference load that is fairly comparable to Winchester White box and produces decent accuracy (BTW, Titegroup, Bullseye, WST, N320, Sport Pistol, BE-86 produce smaller groups in comparison) - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

​

RMR in-house jacketed bullets have produced smaller groups than many other commercial/match grade bullets and when compared to Hornady HAP (XTP without expansion cuts), produced slightly smaller groups in my testing. RMR FP/FN "Match Winner" has greater accuracy potential than FMJ. BTW, ELEY uses RMR bullets for their centerfire match ammunition so you are buying "ELEY match grade" bullets with 5% THR discount.

FWIW, during my .45Colt comparison test using Cowboy Loads, Bullseye, W231/HP-38 produced smaller groups than Red Dot/Promo, Herco.

BTW, W231/HP-38 is my powder of choice for 45ACP followed closely by Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo.

 

[LiveLife]

What's the High Road discount code at RMR?

From Jake, owner of RMR - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/rmr-discount-code.865251/page-4#post-11545620

Hey, I have a request. Can we please not PM the code to anyone who has fewer than ... 50. I'm also okay with sending the code to people who have been lurkers for years. Like say they only have 20 or so posts, but they have been members for over a year or so.

 

[GooseGestapo]

What's the High Road discount code at RMR?

Remember, his prices INCLUDE shipping!
Therefore he significantly beats Everglades, Zero, or Precision Delta…
I’ve quit casting for 9mm ! Accuracy is as good as Sierra. Nuff said!

 

[film495]

Allright.

I ordered 4 pounds of W231. If it doesn't work out I am holding each of you personally responsible.

only 4?