THR Group Project - PISTOL - Advanced Reloading Concepts and Discussions

[LiveLife]

- POWDER AND PRIMER STORAGE -

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-in-the-garage.876505/#post-11672843

storing powder, primers and dies in the garage ... looking to use a portable AC to keep the garage cool and control moisture

I store all my supplies and equipment in my garage ... too darn hot ... using primers and powders that ... have been stored in the garage

I would be more concerned about storage temperatures as powder deterioration/stability is dependent on storage temperatures.

As to primers, they are made with moisture sealant/barriers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11386382

BTW, THR thread on primer storage and misfires - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mer-misfires-guns-ammo-article-review.872986/

I live at the coast where much of the year, there is 100% humidity and keep my primers in factory boxes/cardboard sleeves taped up in plastic bags and powders in factory plastic containers. If you are concerned about moisture/humidity, I would store the primer boxes in tape sealed plastic bags. (Plastic powder containers from manufacturers are meant to protect powder from moisture )

From Hodgdon - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/safety/gunpowder-stability

"Smokeless Propellant​

The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.

To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.

The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants.

Under proper storage, modern smokeless powder can last for decades. However, this does not mean the reloader can ignore how the powder is stored, particularly if in an uncontrolled environment such as a garage or storage building."​

From Alliant - https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2018_Alliant_Powder.pdf

"HOW TO CHECK SMOKELESS POWDER FOR DETERIORATION​

Although modern smokeless powders contain stabilizers and are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practices require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.

Deteriorating smokeless powders produce an acidic odor and may produce a reddish brown fume. (Don’t confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.) Powder deterioration can be checked by opening the cap on the container and smelling the contents. Powder undergoing deterioration has an irritating acidic odor.

Dispose of deteriorating smokeless powders immediately. Check to make certain that powder is not exposed to extreme heat as this may cause deterioration. Such exposure produces an acidity which accelerates further reaction and has been known, because of the heat generated by the reaction, to cause spontaneous combustion."​

 

[LiveLife]

Wow. Very good post.

Thanks for your post LiveLife

LiveLife you selflessly continue to bring measurable results to the forefront through many, many working hours. Speaking for THR we deeply appreciate the straightforwardness and simplicity that you lay out time and time again in this thread. After reloading I find myself continuing to refer repeatedly. Your sacrifice is duly noted thank you.

You are all very welcome.

Since my retirement on 7/4/19 (Yes my "Day of Independence" from work ), my wife and I have designated "Pay It Forward" as primary focus of our retirement and pursue several PIF projects on an ongoing basis with allocated PIF funds.

While the "Thank you THR PIF" thread has been inactivated, my reloading/shooting PIF has continued privately supporting THR members and new shooters/reloaders in real life with various PIF items and complete reloading press kits/packages.

There is going to be another one-time public THR PIF soon (End of this month or November as I go through my reloading/shooting inventory while I build a temporary reloading room with another portable bench for Dillon 550/650) at the request of noted THR member rcmodel who asked I distribute certain items after his passing (So stay tuned).

And many thanks to generous THR members who have sent me reloading items to PIF. You have made many people happy and delighted. May you and your families be richly blessed.

 

[LiveLife]

= DIGITAL SCALE ZERO DRIFT = Myth busting - What causes digital scale zero drift and can it be fixed?

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-scale-zero-drift-and-can-it-be-fixed.893402/

Time for another myth busting thread.

In previous digital scale myth busting threads we determined that some digital scales (even cheaper models) could be sensitive/repeatable to 0.1 gr for reloading (Actually, few were determined to be more sensitive than 0.1 gr resolution beam scales but this thread is about zero drift of digital scales so no comments about beam scales).

With more sensitive higher resolution digital scales verified by check weights down to 0.03, 0.06, 0.08, 0.1+ gr, there persists the issue of zero drift of digital scales. And that's what this thread is about.

So what causes zero drift and can it be resolved?

In the "Myth Busting Digital Scales - 1 mg Analytical Lab Scale" and "Fine tuning an 'analytical/lab' digital scale" threads and other digital scale threads, we learned that strain gauge or load cell are used for digital scales.

VEVOR Analytical Lab scale with FA DS-750, Gemini-20, WAOAW and Ohaus check weight set along with Dawn container for perspective comparison.

Load cell of VEVOR digital scale

Cause of zero drift - What I found during my resolution of Varget down to single kernel testing is that digital scale zero is influenced by internal/external factors that affect the sensitive load cell:

• Counter/bench top surface not level or stable
• Operating scale outside of manufacturer specified temperature range (typical 59F-95F but check your manual)
• Warm up of scale as electronic components/IC board temperature increase
• Scale housing construction the load cell/base is attached to
• Movement of air around the scale
• Any source of magnetic field
• Some claim fluorescent light fixture ballasts (I only use LED lighting in the house with no noticeable effect on zero)
• If battery powered, low battery
• Defective digital scale

Solution options to reduce/eliminate zero drift:

I highly recommend use of check weights:

$15 Aluminum (Down to 10 mg/.15 gr) - https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...rds=scale+check+weights&qid=1629058966&sr=8-2

$82 Ohaus ASTM Class 6 stainless steel - https://www.zoro.com/ohaus-calibrat...edirectid=16290592283668228270010070301008005

$158 NIST Class F stainless steel - https://www.amazon.com/Rice-Lake-Stainless-Calibration-Weight/dp/B006MWG13U/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=CERTIFIED+calibration+weights&qid=1552671682&s=industrial&sr=1-2&th=1

• Stabilize and level counter/bench top surface
• Use digital scale within manufacturer specified temperature range
• Allow sufficient warm up of scale until zero drift is minimized
• Verify accuracy/repeatability of scale with check weights (NOT HEAVY CALIBRATION WEIGHTS)
• Check to see if zero drifts when four corner of more sensitive scale feet/mounting screws are pressed down - If so, adjust screw tension until zero drift is reduced or not affected.
• Close door/window/vents to reduce air movement. Use dome/cover over scale if air movement cannot be eliminated.
• Remove sources of magnetic field (In my case magnetic tip screw driver but also cell phones, speakers, etc.)
• Turn off fluorescent light fixture ballasts or use LED light source
• If battery powered, replace with fresh batteries
• If all else fails, replace digital scale (Contact customer service for replacement or get a different scale)

For my VEVOR digital scale testing, zero drift was reduced as I eliminated above listed causes with sufficient warm up of 30 minutes and removing sources of magnetic field being the biggest offenders but the zero drifted very slightly even after.

This is where I took member jmorris' practice to heart and disassembled the scale.

If you look at the above picture, you will notice that load cell is attached to the mounting plate with four screws which was crucial key to fine tuning this scale to reduce/eliminate zero drift -
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/fine-tuning-an-analytical-lab-digital-scale.876547/

What I found was any touch or slightest pressure on the four mounting screws changed the reading along with any pressure above four corner adjustable feet of the scale. Then the light bulb went on and I realized as temperature of the scale increased in relation to the ambient temperature, there could be unequal expansion of plastic parts/base to exert uneven pressure on the load cell mounting plate.

So when I loosened the screws and tightened again until touch/pressure on the four screws/adjustable feet did not produce change in reading, my zero drift essentially disappeared.

So then I eagerly disassembled my other digital scales only to find that strain gauge/load cell were not readily accessible. So, if you have digital scale with load cell mounting plate that is accessible, you can check to see if mount screws can be adjusted to reduce/eliminate zero drift. If not, apply all the other listed solution options to reduce or eliminate zero drift.

So is this myth confirmed or busted? Do digital scales' zero drift?

Confirmed, but not necessarily due to the scale and there are many internal/external causes which can be resolved.

Only as the last resort, is the digital scale to blame and needs replacement.

 

[LiveLife]

Repost for fun from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-but-i-still-hate-it.893604/#post-12029667

I know many folks enjoy the experience of handloading but I absolutely loathe it; it is, however, a labor that I endure to ensure my ammo is high quality and consistent. If it weren't for the current availability and cost I would have gone back and cleared the shelf.

There are at least two major groups of shooters/reloaders. Which group/subgroup do you belong to?

1. Shooter who use factory ammo
   • 1a - Shooter who hardly ever shoot
   • 1b - Shooter who is a recreational shooter
   • 1c - Shooter who is an avid shooter
   • 1d - Shooter who competes
     • 1d1 - Shooter who competes with any factory ammunition
     • 1d2 - Shooter who competes with tested most accurate factory ammunition
     • 1d3 - Shooter who competes with match ammunition
   • 1e - Shooters who wonder why they have guns but shoot anyways
2. Shooter who reloads
   • 2a - Shooter who reloads
     • 2a1 - Shooter who dislikes reloading but likes shooting (Will buy factory if price difference is close enough)
       • 2a1i - Shooter who reloads on occasion
       • 2a1ii - Shooter who reloads regularly
       • 2a1iii - Shooter who reloads to compete
     • 2a2 - Shooter who likes reloading and also likes shooting (Will hardly/never buy factory)
       • 2a2i - Shooter who reloads on occasion
       • 2a2ii - Shooter who reloads regularly
       • 2a2iii - Shooter who simply views gun as unloading device (May not even enjoy shooting)
       • 2a2iv - Shooter who reloads to compete
   • 2b - Shooter who handloads (May also reload and likely enjoys reloading/handloading)
     • 2b1 - Shooter who handloads but has "practical" limits
       • 2b1i - Shooter who handloads occasionally (hunting, etc.)
       • 2b1ii - Shooter who handloads regularly (match shooting, etc.)
     • 2b2 - Shooter who handloads but has "realistic" limits
       • 2b2i - Shooter who handloads occasionally (hunting, etc.)
       • 2b2ii - Shooter who handloads regularly (match shooting, etc.)
     • 2b2 - Shooter who handloads and has no limits
   • 2c - Shooters who wonder why they reload/handload but reload/handload anyways

 

[papaairbear]

I fit a few if those!

 

[LiveLife]

= BLOOD LEAD LEVEL AND HOW TO REDUCE/ELIMINATE INTAKE =

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...d-other-metal-particles.910272/#post-12405582

I am curious if a home lead tester kit has ever reviled any contamination in anyone's reloading area. I have never thought of it as a problem.

Yes.

When my blood lead level increased to 8, then to 12 triggering my doctor to notify the Public Health department for monitoring (10 is the threshold point), I tested my reloading room and it was positive for lead. Wife and children had normal lead levels - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ealth-information.307170/page-12#post-9625420

new apartment ... wall to wall carpeting and I generally don't like reloading on that because of all the heavy metal particles.

how are you making to heavy metal particles?

Working with my doctor, we arrived at most of my lead intake turned out to be lead dust inhaled at indoor range while bent down towards the floor to pick up spent brass and while sorting/processing spent brass at home.

To reduce/eliminate lead intake, I stopped shooting at indoor range and sorted/processed/dry tumbled spent brass outdoors wearing 3M respirator - https://www.amazon.com/3M-Facepiece...keywords=3m+respirator&qid=1662892380&sr=8-11

After shooting outdoors, hands/arms were washed and shirt was removed before entering the house.

Indoors, depriming of spent primers was done using tube collection into a plastic water bottle as I reloaded inside the house.

After several months, my blood lead level returned to normal without making any dietary change but I did reduce/eliminate canned oyster/clam products along with shrimp.

I now do all of my shooting outdoors at BLM areas and continue to reload indoors while sorting/processing spent brass outdoors without wearing 3M respirator and no increase in blood lead level. And I am back to eating shrimp/oysters/clams.

those indoor ranges…were they modern? With sophisticated HVAC? I only shoot at indoor ranges (no other choice) and they profess to be safe. One is NRA HQ

Yes, brand new ranges with chopped up tire rubber backstop to reduce lead bullet/dust scatter, hurricane like high velocity air ventilation system, California/EPA/OSHA approved air circulation/filtration system fully passed inspections, offset floor rubber mats to "trap" lead dust, floor/mats cleaned/wet mopped/washed daily.

During this time, I was doing A LOT of lubed lead bullet load testing and continued to handle lead bullets but as my doctor confirmed, lead absorption doesn't happen by handling hard lead alloy bullets and most of my lead intake/absorption (key is cumulative intake/absorption) likely happened from inhaling lead dust off indoor range floor and handling/processing/dry tumbling spent cases (Main source of lead dust in shooting now days is from priming compound as spent cases drop to the floor and scatter residual lead dust from inside the case and inhaling lead dust).

And according to this 4/25/14 CDC report on indoor ranges and elevated blood lead levels, there likely is a link - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ealth-information.307170/page-10#post-9544358

"... this report document serious lead exposure from indoor firing ranges ... BLLs (Blood Lead Level) should be kept below 10 µg/dL for all adults, and below 5 µg/dL for children and pregnant women.

The findings in this report also suggest that firing range customers and family members of firing range employees, in addition to employees themselves, can be exposed to hazardous amounts of lead. There are an estimated 19 million active target shooters in the United States.

... The number of persons with elevated BLLs from firearms use during 2011–2012 highlights the need to increase prevention activities. Airborne and surface lead levels in firing ranges can be greatly reduced by using lead-free bullets, improving ventilation systems, using wet mopping or HEPA vacuuming instead of dry sweeping, and having a written protocol for range maintenance."

​

moved to a new apartment recently and have decided that the spare bedroom is going to be the reloading area. Problem is it has wall to wall carpeting and I generally don't like reloading on that because of all the heavy metal particles.

Keep in mind the effects of "cumulative" build up of lead dust.

So instead of worrying about vacuuming lead dust ("heavy metal particles") from the carpet, it's better to prevent presence/build up of lead dust in the first place due to your "confined space" reloading set up:

• Wash hands/arms after shooting
• Remove shirt after shooting (Bring an extra shirt to the range to change after range session)
• Clean bottom of shoes well or remove to prevent tracking in lead dust into the apartment (Likely picked up the most amount lead dust from range floor)
• Shower to remove lead dust from hair/rest of body (I guess you can wear cap/hat during range session to reduce lead dust collection in hair)
• Handle/sort/process spent brass while wearing gloves (Nitrile) and wearing 3M respirator outdoors (And wash hands afterwards)
• Dry tumble spent brass outdoors (I would consider wet tumbling if dry tumbling outdoors is not an option)
• Use closed system to contain lead dust (Likes of Lee Classic Turret, post 2018 Pro 1000, Pro 4000/6000, etc.) when depriming spent primers
• If must shoot indoors, avoid breathing in lead dust while picking up spent brass (Hold breath as you approach range floor or use 3M respirator)
• If concerned, use a lead tester kit to identify presence/source/build up of lead dust and have blood lead level tested

Do you have all these concerns when you are shooting at the range??

Not as much.

Keep in mind there is a difference between shooting outdoors with wind/breeze or indoors with forced air ventilation that can move lead dust away from the shooter and cumulatively building up/inhaling lead dust in confined space of an apartment.

As we have discussed in previous threads, if you introduce lead dust into the house/confined space with no means to remove air to outside of the building, you are going to accumulate lead dust over time and HVAC ventilation system will simply circulate lead dust all around the house.

If you are going to reload indoors, it's best to identify all the sources of lead dust and eliminating them is much easier than trying to clean up a building of lead dust build up.

So do your spent case sorting/processing/dry tumbling outdoors and have a closed system for collecting spent primers.

Be safe.

 

[LiveLife]

= GOING BEYOND RESOLVING VARGET TO SINGLE KERNEL ... RESOLVING SINGLE GRANULE OF PROMO =

Over the decade, we have myth busted viability of using digital scales for reloading, even cheap $20 units, and determined some digital scales have higher than .1 gr resolution of beam scales (Ohaus 10-10/RCBS 5-0-5) with sensitivity/detection down to .08 gr and .06 gr.

And pushing the sensitivity/detection down further, using analytical/lab type digital scale, we not only resolved Varget down to a single kernel but went beyond determining depending on the length and cut angle of the kernel, measured weight could vary - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lab-scale-for-120.873830/page-2#post-11627511

After myth busting digital scale zero drift (Yes, it does happen from several factors) to minimize/eliminate zero drift, we went further on digital scale sensitivity/detection with Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 Precision Reloading Scale and resolved Promo down to single granule.

And no, you do not need this level of scale sensitivity/detection for reloading ...

NOTE: While it is not mentioned in the ad, TRX-925 appears to have auto-zero feature that requires minimal amount of weight detected (For me .05 gr) before light charges/trickling of powder can be measured:

TRX-925 has auto-zero feature as if you start trickling after zero/tare, addition of few granules/flakes of powder won't change reading but as soon as you start with higher than zero reading (I started with 0.05 gr), scale will detect addition of granules/flakes to increase reading by 0.01 gr.

NOTE: Scale has two speeds of weight measurement. Holding down the "TARE" button changes from Speed 1 and Speed 2. When measuring really small weights down around several mg or granules, slower "Speed 1" seems to produce more sensitive readings.


Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-925-precision-reloading-scale-review.904159/

Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 Precision Reloading Scale Review - https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/creedmoor-reloading-scale-trx-925-precision/creedmoor

Scale came with three F1 class calibration weights (2 gram, 10 g, 50 g) that are used for calibration of the scale. Ohaus ASTM Class 6 check weights from 500 mg (7.716 grain) down to 1 mg (0.0154 grain) were tested along with trickling of W231/HP-38 and Promo to push the limits of detection/sensitivity of the scale.

Details and specifications:

• 925 Grain Weighing Capacity
• Creedmoor’s Gold Anodized Static Free Powder Pan
• Easy to Read Backlit LCD Screen
• Customizable Draft Shield

Unboxing - Scale arrived well packaged (box within a box) with packing air pillows

Draft shield comprised of 4 vertical plastic pieces and a top that could be "customized" by using 3 panels to allow for powder trickler use.

Assembled draft shield and three F1 class weights in individual cases along with powder pan

Close up of backlit display shows "-" negative weight and beneath digital bubble motion/"working" indicator ("Precision" printing shows ".01 Grams" but it should be ".001 Grams")

Scale construction - Check weights were verified before and after disassembly of scale.

Unlike my "analytical/lab" scale which has a small plate where load cell/strain gauge was mounted to which affected zero drift from mount screw tension/scale warm up, Creedmoor Sports TRX-925's mounting plate is the ENTIRE base of heavy gauge metal that eliminates the problem of mount screw tension affecting zero drift.

Also printed circuit board is mounted to the top and does not seem to apply thermal expansion/torsional pressure on the base plate as demonstrated by no reading change when each corner over four base feet was pushed down or during initial warm up as identified in the myth busting thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-scale-zero-drift-and-can-it-be-fixed.893402/

Like my "analytical/lab" scale that changed display reading from magnetic source like smartphone/magnetic tip screw driver, TRX-925 was also sensitive and reading changed from zero to 0.15 gr when my cellphone was near by.

Check weight verification and powder trickling down to limits of scale sensitivity/detection - Scale was calibrated by pushing and holding the "CAL" button until "2.000 g" display flashed. After 2 gram calibration weight was placed and removed, "10.000 g" display flashed and 10 gram calibration weight was placed and removed. Then "50.000 g" display flashed and 50 gram calibration weight was placed and removed.

(NOTE: Check weights were verified with top draft cover on and off and I found calibrating with top draft cover off improved display/weight measurement consistency)

Following are measurements of check weights with top draft cover off:

• 2 gram F1 weight - 2.000 g
• 10 gram F1 weight - 10.000 g
• 50 gram F1 weight - 50.000 g
• 500 milligram weight - 0.500 g / 7.72 gr (Should be 7.716 grain)
• 200 milligram weight - 0.200 g / 3.09 gr (Should be 3.086 grain)
• 100 milligram weight - 0.100 g / 1.55 gr (Should be 1.543 grain)
• 50 milligram weight - 0.050 g / 0.78 gr (Should be 0.771 grain)
• 20 milligram weight - 0.020 g / 0.31 gr (Should be 0.308 grain)
• 10 milligram weight - 0.010 g / 0.15 gr with flash to 0.16 gr (Should be 0.154 grain)
• 5 milligram weight - 0.005 g / 0.08 gr (Should be 0.077 grain)
• 3 milligram weight (2+1 mg) - 0.003 g / 0.06 gr (Should be 0.046 grain)
• 2 milligram weight - 0.000 g / 0.00 gr (Should be 0.030 grain)
• 1 milligram weight - 0.000 g / 0.00 gr (Should be 0.015 grain)

I even tried weighing 2 mg weight inside the powder pan but no reading. So looks like lowest detection/sensitivity of this scale is 3 mg/0.06 gr.

Powder trickling - Powders W231/HP-38 and Promo were trickled into powder pan and scale had no problem quickly displaying additional granules of powders with 0.01 grain incremental reading.

Next I pushed the sensitivity/detection limits by trickling minimal number of granules (Picture taken of actual powders used for the test):

• Promo - Working down from 50 granules, 7 granules poured from copy paper into powder pan registered 0.003 g / 0.06 gr. Anything less, reading was 0.000 g/0.00 gr. ("Reblended" Promo granules are more rounder to meter better and C-H 502/Redding/PAD are metering latest lot Promo comparable to W231/HP-38 with .12 gr variance)

• W231/HP-38 - Working down from 30 granules, 18 granules poured from copy paper into powder pan registered 0.003 g / 0.06 gr. I tried to use mostly larger flattened ball granules since W231/HP-38 granule size is irregular.

Summary - During the check weight measuring and powder trickling, scale was calibrated with the top draft cover off and it retained zero without drifting. Once minimally detected 3 mg / 0.06 gr granules of powder, pouring granules out of pan and back again repeated 3 mg / 0.06 gr weight reading consistently several times.

UPDATE: Resolving Promo down to one/two granules to produce 0.01 gr increase on post #8 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-reloading-scale-review.904159/#post-12262497


I just turned on the scale and it automatically went into calibration mode (Which is normal according to Creedmoor Sports Q&A section). After the calibration was done with top draft cover off, powder pan was weighed to be 8.467 grams (130.68 grain).

House temperature is 64F and following was performed without any warm up of the scale.

• When 7 larger granules of Promo were placed in the pan, 0.003 g / 0.06 gr reading was displayed.
• I poured out 7 granules and reweighed several times getting the same 3 mg/0.06 gr reading.
• When one to two additional granules of Promo was added to 7 granules, reading changed to 0.004 g / 0.07 gr. (One to two granules likely indicates what size 7 granules were in the pan to push the reading up to next mg/gr)
• I returned 7 granules back to the pan and reading dropped to 0.003 g / 0.06 gr.
• Adding additional one to two granules increased the reading to 0.004 g / 0.07 gr.

This is significant as Promo granules are smaller/lighter than Varget kernels I used to resolve my "analytical/lab" scale.

(NOTE: One thing I noticed which I forgot to add to OP was that scale has two speeds of weight measurement. Holding down the "TARE" button changes from Speed 1 and Speed 2. When measuring really small weights down around several mg or granules, slower "Speed 1" seems to produce more sensitive readings.)

When I resolved Varget down to single kernel with my "analytical/lab" scale, lowest detection/sensitivity I was able to achieve was 0.004 g (0.08 gr - Should be 0.06 gr). And depending on kernel size/length/cut angle, readings ranged from 0.004 g to 0.006 g (0.08 gr to 0.12 gr) for 4 kernels with most of readings at 0.005 g (0.10 gr). This translates to single Varget kernel weighing between 0.02 gr to 0.03 gr.

Creedmoor Sports scale is able to resolve Promo down to one/two granules to indicate 1 mg/0.01 gr increase.



UPDATE: With on and off rain (We do get 80-100" of annual rain here) with weather forecast of eight more days of rain, not much chance for my next project of .223 69/75 gr BTHP load development at 100-300 yards and maybe 600-800 yards. (Even thought about visiting my sister's family who moved to Texas late last year as it will be mostly sunny for next 2 weeks but it will be 2 weeks of driving and around $1000 for fuel at $4/gallon + food/lodging and I could almost buy Savage 110 Precision Rifle with that. )

So I returned my focus back on the Creedmoor Sports scale and checked few things out.

Turns out glass stove top I used was level left to right but had slight incline front to back. So I found a spot on the breakfast counter that was more level to repeat the lower check weight verification.

• Scale was calibrated with top draft cover off and all check weight verification were done with cover off.
• As before, lightest check weight that scale would detect was 0.003 gram (3 mg that should weigh 0.046 gr) but instead of 0.06 gr, it now displayed 0.05 gr.
• Removing 3 mg check weights on and off returned display to zero and back to 3 mg repeatedly.
• Placing 5 mg check weight and then adding 2 mg/1 mg check weights separately increased readings from 0.08 gr to 0.11 gr and 0.08 gr to 0.09 gr demonstrating scale is able to detect addition of 1 mg to 2 mg weights once minimal weight detection of 3 mg is achieved.
• Moving the scale to less level spot produced 0.003 gram (3 mg) reading that produced 0.06 grain reading.

So if you are planning to get the Creedmoor Sports scale, consider the following for more accurate measurements/readings:

• Remove all sources of magnetic field including cell phones, magnetic screwdrivers, etc. away from the scale
• Find a level spot using a bubble level
• Change speed of weighing setting to slower "Speed 1" by holding down the "TARE" button
• Calibrate scale with draft cover off and weigh with draft cover off also

 

[murf]

Placing 5 mg check weight and then adding 2 mg/1 mg check weights separately increased readings from 0.08 gr to 0.11 gr and 0.08 gr to 0.09 gr demonstrating scale is able to detect addition of 1 mg to 2 mg weights once minimal weight detection of 3 mg is achieved.

would doing this with a 2g check weight, instead of the 5mg weight, be worthwhile to test the upper end detection sensitivity?

i appreciate your time and accurate testing,

murf

 

[LiveLife]

would doing this with a 2g check weight, instead of the 5mg weight, be worthwhile to test the upper end detection sensitivity?

Keep in mind that this thread is about "Advanced Reloading Concepts and Discussions", not your average/typical reloading practice.

For most reloading purposes, verifying scale at powder charges used (Say 4 gr or 5 gr for pistol loads) using check weights in the same range should be sufficient (Most "reloaders" check weight set will cover pistol/rifle powder charge ranges).

But this thread and particular post is about pushing the limits of reloading practices to testing lower limits of scale sensitivity/detection and resolving powder charge down to rifle powder kernels and pistol powder granules/flakes which require ASTM Class 6 check weights that go down to 5 mg, 3 mg, 2 mg and 1 mg (.075 gr, .045 gr, .03 gr, .015 gr).

And I posted

And no, you do not need this level of scale sensitivity/detection for reloading ...

But for those who want/need to explore resolving powder charges down to kernels/granules/flakes, the Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 Precision Reloading Scale was tested to the point of failure (No detection/measurement) along with accuracy measurment practice identified and tips for consistent use of the scale not covered by the ad/documentation.

 

[LiveLife]

- POWDER SELECTION -

Adding to post #171 on "POWDER TYPES" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10094185

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-your-new-powder.910595/page-2#post-12415144

How do you choose your powder?

Most accurate/Match loads - Reference known accurate/popular loads used by other match shooters and conduct comparison range testing to determine which powders produce smallest groups with particular bullets and firearms I am using.

These are results from 2021 USPSA annual equipment survey (Starting 2022, actual powders used were dropped from the survey but manufacturers continued) - https://uspsa.org/magazine/view//2022-00#page=1

• Open (9mm Major 63%/38 SuperComp 34%) - 3N38 18%, AutoComp 13%, HS-6 11%, CFE Pistol 8%
• Limited/L10 (40S&W 88%/9mm 12%) - N320 23%, Titegroup 22%, Sport Pistol 11%, WST 5%
• Production (9mm) - Titegroup 35%, N320 23%, Sport Pistol 16%
• PCC (9mm) - Titegroup 31%, Sport Pistol 18%, N320 16%, Clean Shot 11%

There are good reasons why certain powders stand out:

• Bullseye matches - Bullseye/N310/N320/700-X/Clays/Titegroup/WST/W231(HP-38)

• Rifle matches, particularly 1000 yard Palma - Varget/H4895/I4895/H4350/N150/N165

Verifying the "most accurate" powder and charges require multiple range trips to confirm accuracy results/trend with same powder charge or subsequent range trips to fine tune with .1 gr powder charge adjustment or incremental reduction of OAL (To increase neck tension) at increasing distances.

For my USPSA 45ACP/9mm/40S&W match loads, Bullseye/Clays/WST/Titegroup/W231(HP-38)/Universal/WSF/HS-6 were tested and I ended up using W231/WSF for my minor/major PF loads for softer recoil impulse that allowed me to return front sight back on target faster. If I were to compete again, I would consider Titegroup/Sport Pistol as they produce slightly smaller groups than W231 with less temperature sensitivity and BE-86 as it produces higher velocities than WSF.


Full power/Major power factor/Duplicate factory JHP/Defensive loads - Reference published load data for highest velocities to conduct powder work up and chrono/group size testing. I like using Speer online load data as it is sorted/listed by highest velocities to lowest, newer powders along with older powders and particularly for lead bullets, start/max charges - https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

For my factory duplicate Speer Gold Dot/Remington Golden Saber JHP practice rounds using same bulk bullets, I used WSF for decades due to higher velocities and softer felt recoil but in recent years, replaced with BE-86 due to higher velocities and slightly smaller groups.


Lighter recoil/Minor power factor/Target loads/Plinking loads - Reference powder burn rate chart and look at W231/HP-38 and faster burning powders as faster burning powders can often produce accuracy yet reliably cycle the slide at start-to-mid range load data. With really fast burning powders like Bullseye, if start charge will produce accuracy and reliable slide cycling, I will "work down" below published start charge in .1-.2 gr increments to see how low I can go.

For USPSA minor power factor loads, I looked to produce around 1050 fps with 124/125 gr bullet for 130-135 PF with decent level of accuracy as utmost accuracy of "Bullseye match shooting" was not necessary. I also looked at temperature sensitivity/reverse sensitivity of powders to ensure I can meet PF requirement regardless of ambient temperature - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...temperature-sensitivity.817116/#post-10473222

BTW, here are groupings of powders by relative burn rates I use to better identify suitable powders for my load development - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10644921

Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Norma R1

Red Dot/Promo - IMR Red - Clays - 700X - Bullseye - Vectan Ba 10 - IMR Target - TiteGroup - Vectan AS - Am. Select - Solo 1000 - WST - International - Trail Boss - N320 - Sport Pistol - Vectan Ba 9.5 - No. 2 - Clean Shot/Lovex D032.03

W231/HP-38 - Zip - Green Dot - IMR Green

Slower burning pistol powders:

Unique - Universal - IMR Unequal - Vectan Ba 9 - BE-86 - Power Pistol - N330 - Vectan A1 - Herco - Vectan A0 - WSF - N340 - 800X

No. 5 - Auto Pistol/Lovex D036-03 - True Blue - HS6 - AutoComp - Ultimate Pistol/Lovex D036-07 - CFE Pistol - Silhouette - 3N37

N350 - 3N38 - IMR Blue - W572 - Blue Dot - No. 7 - Major Pistol/Lovex D037-01 - Vectan Ba 7.5 - Pro Reach - Long Shot - 2400

Enforcer - No. 9 - Heavy Pistol/Lovex D037-02 - 4100 - Steel - Norma R123 - N110 - Lil'Gun - W296/H110 - 300-MP - 11FS - Vectan Ba 6.5 - H4227​

General purpose/Paper punching/Range blasting/Lowest cost loads - This is "Jack of all trades, master of none" where a particular load must work in any firearm regardless of make/model/leade length/etc. while compromising optimal accuracy for a specific firearm.

An example load for 9mm is 115 gr FMJ/RN bullets loaded to 1.110"-1.130" OAL using the cheapest powders like Promo that will likely work in most pistols. 4.1-4.2 gr charge reliably cycled the slides of Glocks/M&P Shield and produced light recoil and 4.4-4.5 gr charge produced felt recoil more comparable to Winchester white box with slightly greater accuracy - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...blended-promo-for-more-accurate-loads.841097/


Pistol Caliber Carbine loads - During the "Great Component Shortage" of 2013, I started building 9mm PCCs because 22LR prices approached 9mm reloading cost of around $5-$6/50 rounds.

During my 50/100 yard testing with various powders from Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo to BE-86, I found faster burning powders produce less soot on cases and greater accuracy. For blowback action PCCs, faster powders likely expand the case mouth/neck faster for more consistent chamber pressures before bolt/buffer start to move back and leak gas. 2021 USPSA survey showing faster burning powders used for PCC/3-gun match loads was no surprise as match shooters using blowback action PCCs probably found the same thing about burn rate vs dwell time of bolt/case mouth/neck in contact with chamber before gas leaked and pressure dropped from bolt/buffer moving back.

• PCC (9mm) - Titegroup 31%, Sport Pistol 18%, N320 16%, Clean Shot 11% (Comparable to AA No. 2)

Currently Promo (Same burn rate as Red Dot and faster burning than Titegroup/N320/Sport Pistol) is my go to powder for PCC loads as using high-to-near max load data produces spent cases that are less sooty than W231/HP-38 and slower burning powders and produces smaller groups than W231/HP-38 but due to fast burn rate, felt recoil can be sharper depending on the powder charge. This may not be an issue for recreational shooters, but for match shooters who need the front sight to remain flat on the target, there are buffer weight/delayed blowback buffer options to offset the issue of too short of dwell time - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-pcc-bolt-choice.903452/#post-12248344


Powder case fill/Powder position/Air gap in relation to primer flash - For semi-auto rounds that are less than 100% powder case fill, when slammed into chamber fed from the magazine, powder position is "powder forward" with an air gap in front of the primer flash hole if case fill is low enough. Some powders can be sensitive to powder position as instead of burning from the primer flash hole towards the bullet base, you can have top-down burn if the case fill is light enough - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-8#post-10298638

As discussed in the "... Advanced Reloading ..." thread with limited range testing supported by chrono data, it appears 95%-100% powder case fill loads produce smaller group size than loads that end up with air gap/top-down powder burn when chambered. For reloading applications where powder case fill/powder position/air gap in front of primer flash hole could be a factor, especially lower powder charge target loads, larger flake/fluffy powders like Unique/Red Dot/Promo may be better suited to produce smaller groups or using shorter OAL to achieve 95%-100% case fill.

Max powder case fill calculations for specific COL/OAL and bullet length example at bottom of post for WST/9mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/


Muzzle flash brightness and size - While muzzle flash brightness and size may not be an issue shooting in bright sunlight or well lit indoor range, I have done low light/no light shooting for defensive shooting training/drills with range lights dimmed and night shooting (My defensive shooting instructor taught new PD/SD SWAT members) to notice muzzle flash brightness and size could be a factor in low light/no light shooting situations, especially with night vision use.

In this testing with no light/night vision scope use, these popular powders produced different measurable muzzle flash size - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/need-low-flash-9mm-powder.809859/page-2#post-10357740

HP-38 4.8 gr RMR 115 gr FMJ @ 1.130" - This load was used as reference and produced 4" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash from the side (Shooter's point of view - 1.5" round flash).

Promo 3.8-4.0 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 1" high faint orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 0.5" round flash). In low light, muzzle flash was almost non-detectable.

BE-86 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 2" long by 3" high bright orange muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 3" round flash). This was by far the brightest muzzle flash of four powders tested.

CFE-Pistol 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 2" round flash).​

Availability - Like in previous component shortages, it doesn't matter what powders I want if they are unobtainium. As expected, when a shortage cycle starts, most popular powders are sold out first and we are forced to consider secondary alternate powder choices (Powders we would actually use when supplies are plentiful) and even tertiary alternate powder choices (Powders we would not use when supplies are plentiful).

After experiencing powder sourcing issues during the "Great Component Shortage" of 2013, same/comparable powders listing was developed to identify alternate powders to popular powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-under-different-labels.890893/#post-12318114

For 40S&W, my primary powder choices are BE-86 and WSF. My secondary choice during shortage cycle was Herco as it produced good accuracy and clean spent cases (Inside the case clean). My tertiary choice would be Promo but it produces sharper/harsher recoil than softer BE-86/WSF/Herco but I can back Promo charge down to comparable 9mm recoil.

For 9mm loads loaded to 130-135 PF, my primary powder choices are WST, Titegroup, Sport Pistol (No, I have bought N320/N340 before but happy with Sport Pistol that burns cleaner) and BE-86/WSF for higher velocity loads. Secondary powder choices are W231/HP-38, Promo/Red Dot, Bullseye, Ba 9.5, No 2/Clean Shot. Tertiary powder choices are Herco and Green Dot.

 

[LiveLife]

- PRIMER RELIABILITY OF IGNITION -

Adding to post #242 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11386382

Adding to post #246 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11403561

Seating primer is a two (2) step process:

1. Initial resistance we feel is the primer anvil feet hitting the bottom of primer pocket
2. Second resistance we feel is the primer anvil feet pushing against the bottom of primer pocket setting the anvil tip against the priming compound under the cup.

If you stop at step #1 (Above flush or flush, depending on depth of primer pocket), then first primer strike may not ignite the priming compound and just leave a shallow dent on cup while pushing the primer cup deeper and second primer strike will ignite the priming compound.​

Your primer cup SHOULD be seated until secondary resistance is felt or about .004" below flush.​

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...mer-misfires-guns-ammo-article-review.872986/

Came across this Guns & Ammo article on primer misfires that will supplement our discussion on primers - https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/the-truth-about-primer-misfires/247980

BTW, THR thread on primer misfire - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11386382

US Army AMU on primer seating - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11403561


G&A article covered primer construction (cup, anvil, and priming compound called "pellet") and operation (When cup is hit, indent from firing pin/striker tip ignites priming compound against the anvil tip)

Interesting thing I noticed from the article was the reliability of primers.

"Based on the SAAMI-specified drop test, statistics will tell you that our [Winchester] primers are 99.9997 percent reliable ... A lead-styphnate primer is probably one of the oldest and most reliable devices on the planet."

Article noted that Black Hills Ammunition (Which uses Winchester primers) who test fires more than 100,000 rounds per year and sells tens of millions of rounds each year, their investigations over the years identified misfires were the result of a defective primer in only a very small number of cases.

"Primers are not perfect — nothing man-made is — but they are very reliable. Statistically, you might encounter a defective primer, if you shoot enough ... 99.9997 percent reliability ... means you might hit a misfire every 300,000 rounds.

Over the years, the average is one rejected primer in about every 250,000, but most of the flaws are minor defects or damage such as slightly out-of-round primers that would have no effect on reliability."

Article attributed most common cause of primer misfires to:

• Insufficient primer cup indent - Primer was not struck with sufficient force from damaged firing pin (bent or chipped tip) or weak/dragging firing-pin spring or dirty/obstructed spring channel.

• Excessive headspace - Straight walled semi-auto cartridge, instead of headspacing off case mouth, shorter case headspace off extractor

• Improper reloading technique - Primer not seated firmly to the bottom of primer pocket moves deeper in the primer pocket when hit by firing pin but anvil tip does not detonate priming compound against the cup

• Shooter/firearm induced misfires - Slide or bolt is not returned to full battery before firing

"... try this demonstration the next time you go to the range. Unload your rifle. Double-check to make sure it is unloaded. Close the bolt, then raise the bolt very slightly. Squeeze the trigger while watching the bolt handle. You can see the bolt handle snap closed. The energy to make that happen is being robbed from the firing-pin velocity and energy normally used to strike the primer."

• Variations in brands and lot numbers - Different brand and lot of primers can vary in sensitivity and primer cup hardness (often by design or source material)

• Contaminated ammunition - Light penetrating oil and long-term storage in damp conditions or submersion in water can desensitize primers

Since misfires due to a defective primer is rare, if you experience a misfire, investigate above list of possible causes to determine the cause to fix the problem.

 

[LiveLife]

BTW, "Advanced Reloading Concepts and Discussions" thread for RIFLE - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778221/page-2#post-10938613

 

[LiveLife]

Hodgdon moved the linked page so adding to post #251 with new linked page and additional information from Vhitavuori - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-11#post-11672858

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/freezing-powder.913251/#post-12480189

Freezing powder ... would freezing it (maybe even long-term) hurt the goods?

Neither Hodgdon/IMR/Accurate/Ramshot, Alliant nor Vihtavuori/SAAMI mention freezing smokeless powder for storage

From Hodgdon - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/gunpowder-stability

Smokeless Propellant

The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.

To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.

The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants.

Under proper storage, modern smokeless powder can last for decades. However, this does not mean the reloader can ignore how the powder is stored, particularly if in an uncontrolled environment such as a garage or storage building.​

From Alliant - https://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog/2018_Alliant_Powder.pdf

HOW TO CHECK SMOKELESS POWDER FOR DETERIORATION - Although modern smokeless powders contain stabilizers and are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practices require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.

Deteriorating smokeless powders produce an acidic odor and may produce a reddish brown fume. (Don’t confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.) Powder deterioration can be checked by opening the cap on the container and smelling the contents. Powder undergoing deterioration has an irritating acidic odor.

Dispose of deteriorating smokeless powders immediately. Check to make certain that powder is not exposed to extreme heat as this may cause deterioration. Such exposure produces an acidity which accelerates further reaction and has been known, because of the heat generated by the reaction, to cause spontaneous combustion.
​

And from Vihtavuori, which is reprint of SAAMI - https://www.vihtavuori.com/powders/storage-of-powders/

WHAT IS THE ESTIMATED SHELF LIFE OF GUN POWDER?

The estimated shelf-life of Vihtavuori gun powders is a minimum of 10 years, if stored and sealed in its original containers at a temperature of circa 20°C/ 68°F and a relative humidity of 55-65 %.

HOW DO I STORE RELOADING POWDERS?

STORE GUNPOWDER IN A COOL, DRY PLACE. Be sure the reloading powder storage area selected is free from any possible sources of excess heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, hot water heaters, etc. Do not store smokeless powder where it will be exposed to sunrays.

... DO NOT KEEP OLD OR SALVAGED POWDERS. Check old powders for deterioration regularly. Destroy deteriorated powders immediately.

... The above information has been provided with permission from SAAMI: SPORTING ARMS AND AMMUNITION MANUFACTURERS’ INSTITUTE
​

And SAAMI publication on storage of smokeless powder - https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder-11-8-2022.pdf

 

[LiveLife]

- Using adjustable height bench for more comfortable stand up/sit down reloading to reduce back pain -

This is for those with back issues or who can't reload while standing up

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/loading-after-neck-surgery.913162/page-2#post-12492766

You mention a lot of restrictions, might want to consult your doctor or physical therapist.

Physical therapist promises she can whip me into shape in 2 months.

FWIW - I got diagnosed with spinal stenosis that my neurosurgeon deemed inoperable (Choose your parents carefully) which forced early retirement three years ago.

Sporadic back spasms that dropped me to my knees was almost forcing me to stop reloading but neurosurgeon and physical therapist both were optimistic that I may improve my condition to resume activities of daily living, including reloading. With physical therapy that brought me to near tears (Seemly way harder than Army boot camp) with endless planking, I have happy news that back spasms have stopped and now I guard my back/lower back/neck with utmost care.

One of many reasons I chose the adjustable top Husky bench from Home Depot was being able to infinitely adjust the height for comfortable and well supported sit down reloading I do with an office chair that supports my back well - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-unlimited-budget.912629/page-2#post-12474182

What I found was even though I set the bench at comfortable height, some times I need to adjust the height a bit more to be comfortable. Perhaps this will help with your situation.

 

[LiveLife]

- Powder "work down/down loading" below published start charges -

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...a-grain-increment.913714/page-2#post-12493404

Disclaimer: Following post lists loads below published start charges. Shoot these loads at your own risk.

I haven't worked up a new load in a pistol caliber in several years. My recollection is that I just pick a charge weight in the middle of the book range, test it, and then use that if it works.

I used to think that way decades ago and thought I was just wasting powder conducting initial powder work up at published start charges.

But for semi-auto load development with faster burning powders than W231/HP-38, particularly if you are looking for lighter target/plinking loads, powder burn can be efficient enough at start charges (And sometimes slightly below start charges) to produce accuracy.

I use Promo which has same burn rate as Red Dot per Alliant by weight and published start charge for 45ACP 200 gr LSWC is 4.1 gr - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/45_Auto_200_LSWC.pdf

• 45ACP 200 gr LSWC Red Dot COL 1.190" Start 4.1 gr (749 fps) - Max 4.5 gr (831 fps)

Even using longer 1.240" OAL with 12 BHN (MBC Bullseye #1), 14-16 BHN (Z Cast) and 18 BHN (MBC IDP #1) SWC bullets, 4.0 gr charge produces accuracy and light recoil pleasant to shoot even in compact 45 pistols.


When I introduce shooters to 40S&W fearful of "snappy recoil" or for training drills, I use lighter charges of W231/HP-38 and 180 gr bullets - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

• 40S&W 180 gr BERB FP W231/HP-38 COL 1.125" Start 4.4 gr (872 fps) - Max 5.1 gr (984 fps)

With most 180 gr TCFP bullets loaded to even longer 1.135" OAL, 3.9 - 4.3 gr charge will produce 9mm-like lighter recoil to allow shooters to better focus on target while producing acceptable accuracy for training/shooting drill purposes.


Had I started out at mid-range load data, I would have missed out on these great target/plinking loads.


And we all know about bullseye match shooters "powder work down/down loading" for way lighter than start charges to even use lighter recoil springs to cycle the slide.

This Shooting Times comparison bullseye match load development article used JHP bullet with lighter than lead load data to produce smallest groups of the comparison - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/loads-for-the-bullseye-shooter/99418

• 45ACP 185 gr MBC LSWC W231 COL 1.245" Start 5.6 gr (897 fps) - Max 6.3 gr (1,001 fps) - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

• 45ACP 185 gr Speer GDHP W231 COL 1.200" Start 6.6 gr (995 fps) - Max 7.4 gr (1069 fps) - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/45_Automatic_185_GDHP.pdf

185 gr Zero JHP and way below published start charge 5.0 gr of W231 at 709 fps produced the smallest 1.28" 15 shot 25 yard group out of comprehensive 55 load comparison - https://files.osgnetworks.tv/11/files/2018/06/45-ACP-BULLSEYE-LOADS-ACCURACY-VELOCITY-CONT.jpg

So conduct full powder work up referencing most conservative load data for the initial powder work up and consider powder "work down/down loading" if accuracy is produced at start charges to identify lighter than published start charge target loads.

 

[LiveLife]

- NECK TENSION AND BULLET SETBACK vs CASE WALL THICKNESS -

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/380-acp-fyi.914151/#post-12503874

RP brass is known to be thin.

R-P used to be thin but that seemed to have changed and now there is R-P with a "dot" next to "P" that has rounded rim with thicker case wall (Second from left with rounded rim compared to old R-P on the right with more typical rim edge)

And Remington ammunition was recently purchased by Vista Outdoor, the parent company of Federal/Speer/CCI/Alliant powder, etc. (Remington firearm was separated and sold to someone else).

Look for CBC brass, usually some of the thickest.

Yes CBC is thicker.

bullet seated an extra 20 thousandths into the case (called set back and not good) ... tested all rounds by pushing them down against my reloading bench as hard as i could

... i don't want this to happen again

I used to test neck tension and bullet setback by pushing on the bullet against the bench top but found this method of testing did not reproduce the impact force of bullet nose bumping on the feed ramp. So I started testing neck tension and bullet setback by loading dummy rounds from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it.

As to case wall thickness and bullet setback, that was confirmed in this myth busting thread where case wall thickness was measured at 12-3-6-9 O'clock positions (As case wall thickness is not always consistent) from .100" below case mouth (Where taper crimp is applied) to .200" below case mouth (Where bullet base is seated to with greater neck tension from thicker case wall) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

NOTE: Case wall thickness should be measured below .100" and especially down to .200" below case mouth as some reloaders chamfer the inside of case mouth down to around .050" below case mouth and .200" below case mouth has thicker case wall than .100" below case mouth to apply more neck tension on bullet base.

Case wall thickness measurement at 12/3/6/9 O'clock .100" below case mouth by headstamp where taper crimp is applied but not produce much neck tension - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10712225

Case wall thickness measurement at 12/3/6/9 O'clock .200" below case mouth by headstamp where bullet base produce greater neck tension from thicker case wall - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Additional issues for bullet setback are affect on chamber pressure and accuracy. As illustrated by OAL/COL change (bullet setback) vs pressure chart below, even small change of .005" can increase pressure by around 4,000 PSI for 9mm and 8,000 PSI for 40S&W using Ramshot Zip that has comparable burn rate of W231/HP-38 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...un-brass-worth-it.912195/page-2#post-12454962

So if you are at max charge and experience significant bullet setback, you could be over published max pressure. And if your "chambered OAL variance"/bullet setback is inconsistent, then your accuracy will likely be affected. Especially for defensive rounds that are loaded at higher muzzle velocities using near max/max charges and match rounds that must produce smallest groups, I prefer to use bullet/case wall thickness combination that does not produce any bullet setback (And preferably once-fired brass).

And keep in mind that cases can get shorter as it is repeatedly reloaded and shorter resized cases will apply less neck tension on bullet base than longer resized cases. So for maximum neck tension, use longest resized cases.

BTW, results from bullet setback testing from myth busting thread using different diameter bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

 

[LiveLife]

- PRIMER RELIABILITY OF IGNITION -

Adding to post #261 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-11#post-12417636


Metric sized primers

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-with-servicio-primers.916998/#post-12576840

I’ve witnessed and heard of plenty of instances of experienced reloaders having problems with these primers.

I have had light strikes with PMC primers too. Don't know if it is their hardness

I bought 5,000 Servicio&Aventuras small pistol primers ... They do fit a little tight but I’ve not had any failures to fire. I’ve limited them to 9mm and .40S&W, .32 and .380 loads. A G22, Taurus G2C, 4- 9mm M1911’s, Beretta M81 .32, and Beretta M85 .380 have all fired them.

I have use 1,050 loaded on a LNL and so far No problems at all

.
.
< Pondering back through 30 years ... >
.
.

Experienced reloaders recognize the symptoms of primers that haven’t been seated completely.

I thought about what Walkalong posted this morning while I did some yard work on our acreage and there is something we didn't consider.

I mean, how can some THR members have no problems while other members have problems with the same primer? [Servicio & Aventuras SP primers made in Argentina]

What maybe happening is what I experienced with Wolf LP primers back 15 years ago when Powder Valley sold them and also with PMC/Tula/Fiocchi/S&B primers I bought in previous component shortages when they were harder to seat. These were "Metric" sized primers with slightly larger diameter cups manufactured using "millimeter" measurements instead of "inch" measurements of domestic brand primers.

I recall running comments about Wolf primers that they were good for using in enlarged primer pockets to extend the life of brass. And while I liked the consistency of Fiocchi SP primers, they were slightly tighter to seat fully .004" below flush and in some once-fired 9mm brass with tighter primer pockets like S&B/RWS, I could not seat them even to flush and ended up sorting these headstamp brass out to prime with domestic brand primers.

Interestingly, I did not have primer seating problems with Magtech SP, S&B SP/LP/SR/LR, Tula SR/.223 (copper/brass colored) primers. Of course, I haven't had any problems with various CCI/Federal/Remington/Winchester SP/LP/SR/LR and CCI 41 primers.

So, if you are using mostly once-fired brass with tighter primer pockets, you may have seating issues with slightly larger "Metric" sized primers. But using brass with enlarged primer pockets that have been reloaded multiple times may allow fully seating of these primers to slightly below flush around .004" that we aim for.

Fiocchi SP primers, they were slightly tighter to seat fully .004" below flush and in some once-fired 9mm brass with tighter primer pockets like S&B/RWS, I could not seat them even to flush ... Interestingly, I did not have primer seating problems with Magtech SP, S&B SP/LP/SR/LR, Tula SR/.223 (copper/brass colored) primers

My experience with Fiocchi primers is a little different ... Never noticed them being hard to seat at all

As I explained in post #24, there may be reasons why different THR members are having differing primer seating experience with same primers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-with-servicio-primers.916998/#post-12576840

"how can some THR members have no problems while other members have problems with the same primer?

... if you are using mostly once-fired brass with tighter primer pockets, you may have seating issues with slightly larger "Metric" sized primers. But using brass with enlarged primer pockets that have been reloaded multiple times may allow fully seating of these primers to slightly below flush around .004" that we aim for."​

OP is using new brass with likely tighter primer pockets and having seating problems with Servicio & Aventuras SP primers

I am using new brass so primer pockets are probably tight.

Fiocchi primers ... feed better and seat better and more consistently than the Winchesters ... in my LNL-AP

And as member jag22 posted, different THR members using differing reloading equipment may explain differing primer seating experience.

I wish posters ... would tell what tool they are priming with. Hand held, bench mounted, progressive? Which manufacturer? Which model?

My primer seating equipment experience includes Dillon 550, Lee Pro 1000, Lee hand primers (Auto-Prime/XR), Dillon 650, Lee Classic Turret/ABLP with Safety Prime, Lee Auto Bench Prime, Lee SPP/Pro 6000 and 2023 Lee Pro 1000.

Of these, now discontinued original Lee Auto-Prime provides the best primer seating "feel" and prefer to use over replacement XR which requires more seating effort. With both hand priming tools, I can readily seat various domestic and foreign "Metric" primers to around .004" below flush, even to .008" crush depth with extra effort. (BTW, seating primers to .008" has been myth busted to ignite reliably)

While even 2018 updated Pro 1000 carried primer brand selectivity, "WARNING: Only CCI or Remington brand primers are safe to use with this press", new priming system for SPP/Pro 6000 and 2023 Pro 1000 do not - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12569073

Automatic priming system ... reliable and safe with any brand or size of primer
​

And why I specifically seated Tula/PMC/S&B primers in addition to CCI in different headstamp brass (Blazer/.FC./R-P/R-P"."/WIN/FC/G.F.L.) to test this claim that new priming systems will work reliably with "any" brand or size of primer and both SPP/Pro 6000 and 2023 Pro 1000 priming systems have been reliable regardless of primer brand/size - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12567479

CCI SP seated to .004" below flush in FC case, S&B SP seated to .003" below flush in R-P case, PMC SP seated to .005" below flush in WIN case, PMC seated to .003" below flush in Blazer/R-P cases - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-oal-consistency.911743/#post-12442618

CCI/S&B/PMC/TulAmmo SP primers in various headstamp brass (Blazer/.FC./R-P/R-P"."/WIN/FC/G.F.L. pictured) and they fed reliably 100% ... seated to .004"-.005" below flush with most seating around .004" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-lee-pro-1000-unboxing.916672/#post-12567479

 

[LiveLife]

- PLUNK TEST -

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trimming-auto-pistol-cases-is-unnecessary-waste-of-time-so-that’s-what-i’m-doing.921544/page-3#post-12685870

How do you know if you are headspacing in the extractor when they "plop" fine and do not appear to drop in the chamber past the bevel of breech?

By doing the "Plunk Test" for straight walled semi-auto pistol cases - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

The "Plunk Test" is essentially checking these three things:

1. Dummy round (No powder, no primer) or test/finished round's dimensions fit the chamber
2. Bullet nose and shoulder do not hit the start of rifling
3. Resized case length is not too long or short

Here's comparison graphic from @Walkalong thread which illustrates all three items more clearly - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/

When we perform the "Plunk Test", we are: 1) Checking to see if the dummy/test round falls into the chamber freely with a "plonk" (Hence the "Plunk" test) to verify round's dimensions do not exceed chamber dimensions, 2) Chambered round freely spin to verify bullet nose/shoulder do not contact the rifling and 3) Checking to see how high/low the case rim is relative to the barrel hood to verify resized case length.

Going right to left in the above graphic with A) through D) representing left to right labeling:

D) If dummy/test round drops in freely into chamber and spins without hitting the rifling, resized case length is too long and slide won't go into full battery as case rim protruding above barrel hood will prevent full lock up.

C) If dummy/test round drops in freely into chamber and spins without hitting the rifling, resized case length is headspacing off chamber and slide will go into full battery as case rim flush with barrel hood will allow full lock up (As indicated in the graphic, this will allow better sealing of gas as case mouth seals with chamber wall and produce improved accuracy).

B) If dummy/test round drops in freely into chamber and spins without hitting the rifling, resized case length is shorter than chamber to breech wall face distance and chambered round case rim can start to contact extractor to headspace off extractor (When powder is ignited, expansion of gas will push case rim against the breech wall face pushing case mouth away from the forward part of chamber, leaking more gas). If you use mixed range brass that's been reloaded multiple times, resized case length can vary quite a bit and neck tension/taper crimp amount could vary and addition of variance of gas leakage around case mouth all can tolerance stack to affect accuracy (Trimming case mouth to same resized length can improve flare/taper crimp amount consistency but won't improve gas leakage).

A) If dummy/test round drops in freely into chamber and spins without hitting the rifling, resized case length is so short that chambered round case rim is held back by extractor with case mouth dangling away from forward part of chamber to affect accuracy (It's like shooting 40S&W in 10mm barrel). When powder is ignited, expansion of gas will push case rim against the breech wall face pushing case mouth further away from forward part of chamber leaking more gas.

Years ago....Trying to avoid shaving with LSWC

Another thing with using mixed range brass that can vary in resized case length; when I am setting up dies, I will measure resized case length of sample brass to identify "median/average" range of resized case lengths. When determining Max OAL, I will tend to use shorter resized case length as longer resized case length will allow less bullet nose/shoulder to protrude above the case mouth at the same OAL. (Using shorter resized case length to set flare/taper crimp amount will allow more flare/taper crimp with longer resized case lengths to help prevent shaved bullet, especially for seating/taper crimping in the same step, and skosh more taper crimp to not hang up flared case mouth with chamber wall).

If you are after utmost consistency, you can sort for same headstamp and same longer resized case length that will apply more consistent flare/taper crimp amount with more consistent finished OAL and more consistent neck tension/bullet setback - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-consistent-oal-on-progressive-press.921633/

 

[LiveLife]

- SEMI-AUTO POWDER CASE FILL -

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-consensus.921688/page-2#post-12692352

point of going to all the trouble.........it is to simply have an understanding of what is going on inside that case.

Yes, if you are pursuing accuracy, max case fill can be a significant reloading variable.

Remember many reloaders/match shooters made a big deal with position sensitive powders with revolver loads and tested powder forward/back differences?

With semi-auto pistol loads, when the round is chambered and powder charge is slammed forward, with some powder/case fill combination you may end up with air gap in front of primer flash hole so primer flash has to jump that air gap before igniting powder charge. I have done limited testing with different powders and 9mm OAL from 1.160" down to 1.150, 1.140", 1.130", 1.120" all the way to 1.110" and found shorter OAL produced smaller groups.

While there is reloading variable of deeper seated bullet base producing greater neck tension affecting more efficient powder burn for more consistent chamber pressure build/average sustained max pressure, deeper seated bullet also ensures powder charge covers the primer flash hole when chambered.

Years ago, I used to load 115 gr FMJ longer around 1.145"-1.150" thinking closer to lands would leak less gas but found shorter 1.130"-1.135" overshadowed by producing smaller groups (I also noticed Atlanta Arms was loading their most accurate 9mm 115 gr FMJ Match AMU to 1.130" so it confirmed my suspicision).

To squeeze out bit more accuracy, I tested even shorter 1.110" particularly with smaller .355" sized bullets (Compared to .3555"/.356" sized bullets) and thinner walled FC/.FC./Blazer/Speer cases and group size got smaller. And I also noticed Atlanta Arms had reduced the OAL of 115 gr FMJ Match AMU shorter to 1.110" which further confirmed my finding - https://atlantaarms.com/products/elite-9mm-115gr-fmj-match-amu.html

 

[LiveLife]

- BULLET TYPES/CONSTRUCTIONS -

Repost from another thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/alliant.870830/page-3#post-11559838

Differences between FMJ, TMJ and CMJ bullet types:

FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) uses gilding metal disk that's stretched into a jacket and wrapped around a lead/alloy core. The thickness of jacket often runs from .015"+. FMJ can come with flat lead base, dished lead base, hollow lead base along with RN, FP, etc. nose profiles.

Below are Zero, RMR, Winchester flat base and Everglades dished and Federal hollow base FMJs.

Below are close up of Federal 115 gr FMJ RN hollow base, RMR 115 gr FMJ RN flat base (And Berry's 115 gr thick plated hollow base RN for comparison)

And factory Federal (.FC. headstamp) 115 gr FMJ RN pulled apart

TMJ (Total Metal Jacket) is a Speer registered trademark originally owned by Alliant Techsystems (ATK) but now owned by Vista Outdoor - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/starting-load-for-147-gr-9mm.870683/#post-11549551

TMJ, like Gold Dot HP (Also Speer registered trademark) is thick plated bullet on par with gilding metal thickness of jacketed bullets which is .015"+ - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195

Here are Speer 115/124 gr TMJ RN bullets showing distinctive "dished" base that is thick copper plated and they can be driven to full jacketed load data. Other plated bullets with thinner than .015" copper plating carry maximum speed rating of around 1200 fps for regular plated bullets (Average .004"-.008" plating thickness) and around 1500 fps for thicker plated bullets (Average .010"-.014" plating thickness).

Speer also makes plated bullets used by Vista Outdoor family of companies (Blazer, CCI, Federal, etc.) and other brand manufacturers. Below is factory CCI Blazer 124 gr plated RN (Box listed FMJ) pulled apart. Notice the rounded bullet base compared to TMJ's dished base?

CMJ (Complete Metal Jacket) is FMJ with a metal disk that covers the lead base like Montana Gold CMJ - http://montanagoldbullet.com/9mm-124gr-cmj-3-750ct-case/

 

[RashQuestion]

Thanks for recapping all of that!

I believe your help and exhaustive information is beneficial to all who frequently visit here!!! I know it is for me anyway.

It's appreciated! Thanks Again and god Bless!!!

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for recapping all of that!

I believe your help and exhaustive information is beneficial to all who frequently visit here!!! I know it is for me anyway.

As we have discussed in the past several times, one of these days we will finalize all the testing/myth busting for various topics and compile "Advanced Reloading ..." ebook sort of thing to be published on THR that is indexed for easy/quick access to chapters/topics.

I am 57 so we have a few more years to do more "exhaustive" testing like 0.1 gr incremental powder workup at the range after doing update testing of 47 brands/weights/lots of 22LR (Going on 11,000+ rounds) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nition-comparison.908102/page-2#post-12812234

I tell you, shooting/reloading sure beats playing golf in retirement ... And I suck at golf.

 

[LiveLife]

= Max/Working OAL for Different Barrels =
= Barrel Twist Rate and Lead/Coated Lead Bullets =

Repost from another thread due to pertinence to reloading - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...barrel-for-g22-question.928957/#post-12861852

Looking seriously at a CDNN drop-in 9mm barrel for my G22.3. Anyone have one of these barrels? Those that have converted their 40 Glock to 9mm…do I have to change out my extractor? I do have 9mm mags for use in the G22.

... no idea who makes the CDNN barrels. But at $90….seems too cheap to pass up.

I have used 40-9mm conversion and 40S&W aftermarket/match barrels from KKM/Lone Wolf/Bear Creek Arsenal/Tactical Kinetics for my Gen3 Glock 22/23/27.

They were all drop-in without need for any fitting and worked reliably. Factory 40S&W extractors/ejectors also worked well to reliably extract/eject 9mm cases (Years back with early generation 3 40S&W ejector face angle caused spent brass to face issue but this has been addressed by Glock with change in ejector face angle to also address when using conversion barrels with 9mm). They have all been reliable with Glock 17/Magpul magazines and newer generations of Glock 40S&W magazines with flat front mag followers have also worked well as long as spring tension didn't get too worn.

Like AR receivers, many conversion barrels are manufactured by OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) with vendors name/logo engraved or just sold under different brand with same caliber/conversion barrel engraving. Bear Creek Arsenal and Tactical Kinetics are both OEM barrel manufacturers who sell barrels to others for branding.

• So while $64 threaded conversion barrel for Glock 22 is sold by MidwayUSA under "Swenson" brand, it is made by BCA and even uses the same MPN (Manufacturer Part Number) convention (1985-BGL91922(SS)TH) - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023183929
• Here's $72 BCA threaded conversion barrel with same MPN (1985-BGL91922(SS)TH) - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/glock-22-9mm-1-16-twist-ss-threaded-40-caliber.html
• And BCA black nitride threaded conversion barrel for same price - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/glock-22-40-caliber-1-16-twist-nitride-threaded.html
• If you don't need threaded barrel, regular BCA 40-9mm conversion barrel for $68 - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bc...conversion-barrel-stainless-steel-finish.html
• And BCA black nitride threaded conversion barrel for same price - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bc...m-conversion-barrel-black-nitride-finish.html

CDNN $80 threaded and straight fluted conversion barrel for Glock 22 has MPN convention of "G22FTCON" and lists the manufacturer as "Original Equipment" - https://www.cdnnsports.com/gun-part...2-40s-w-stainless-barrel-fluted-threaded.html

I am guessing here but Tactical Kinetics has "Original Equipment" page on their website and could be sourcing for CDNN or it could be BCA barrel (Marking on top of barrel do seem similar though) - https://tacticalkinetics.com/original-equipment-manufacturer/

I have no idea who makes the CDNN barrels

You could always call CDNN and ask.

---

Barrel Twist Rate: Over the decades, Glock conversion barrels have settled down to two different groups by barrel twist rates: 1:16 more common with match barrels and 1:10 more common with Glock's 1:9.84 twist rate.

Decades back when Glock 40-9mm conversion barrels initially came out, shooting lubed lead bullets was common practice and slower 1:16 twist rates was more compatible with lead bullets (No leading of barrel) as faster 1:10/1:9.84 twist rate barrels were more prone to strip lead from barrel as bullet traveled down the bore. With lead bullets, 1:16 twist rate conversion barrels with square cut land/groove rifling also produced greater accuracy than factory Glock barrels with smooth rounded "6-hexagonal" rifling ("5-pentagonal" rifling for .45ACP Glocks) and even slower KKM barrels with 1:20 twist rate produced slightly smaller groups than my 1:16 twist rate Lone Wolf barrels.

In recent years, more and more companies are using 1:10 twist rate and I only use jacketed/plated bullets with Tactical Kinetics conversion barrel with 1:10 twist rate. (I use all types of bullets including lead/coated lead bullets in BCA/KKM/Lone Wolf barrels)

Wilson Combat initially offered Glock barrels with 1:10 twist rate but has now changed to slower 1:16 twist rate - https://wilsoncombat.com/accessories/parts-for-other-models/parts-for-glock/glock-barells.html

KKM now offers standard 1:16 twist rates on their barrels but offers custom twist rate - https://kkmprecision.com/faqs/

• Barrels with 1:20 twist rate: KKM (Can be ordered with custom twist rate)
• Barrels with 1:16 twist rate: Barsto, BCA, Back Up Tactical, KKM, Lone Wolf/Alpha Wolf, Storm Lake, Wilson Combat, TRYBE Defense non-threaded (threaded 1:10, 5% off with THRFORUM code at Optics Planet)
• Barrels with 1:10 twist rate: Agency Arms, CMC Triggers, EFK Fire Dragon/BH Springs Solutions, Faxon, Grey Ghost, Killer Innovations, Lantac, Rosco (Melonite hardened), True Precision, TRYBE Defense (threaded), Zaffiri Precision, Zev Technologies

---

Leade length / Reaming of rifling: As far as I know, barrels are manufactured first by hammering the rifling through the bore then leade/freebore are cut or reaming of rifling is done to allow different amount of bullet nose/ogive to be inserted into the bore before contacting start of rifling.

• KKM conversion barrel with generous cut leade - This is most amount of leade/freebore cut into bore I have seen that allows 115/124 gr FMJ/RN longer than SAAMI max of 1.169" OAL and even longer 9mm Major rounds to "plunk" and part of reasons why I considered for Glock 22 (40-9mm conversion barrels have thicker chamber/barrel wall for higher pressure 9mm Major loads). Link lists max/working OALs that will work with various bullets (For comparison, RMR 124 gr FP MW max/working OAL at 1.150" and JHP MPR at 1.115") - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11068318

• Tactical Kinetics conversion barrel has shorter cut leade - Pictures show faster 1:10 twist rate and leade/freebore allows 115/124 gr FMJ/RN to SAAMI max of 1.169" and link lists max/working OALs that will work with various bullets (For comparison, RMR 124 gr FP MW max/working OAL at 1.085" and JHP MPR at 1.055") - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11068320

• Lone Wolf conversion barrel shows slower 1:16 twist rate (Same for Bear Creek Arsenal) - Picture below shows Lone Wolf Glock 23 conversion barrel that did not come reamed (Which produces greater accuracy likely from less gas leak from shorter bullet jump through leade to start of rifling). My Glock 22 and 27 conversion barrels along with BCA Glock 22 conversion barrels (I bought 2 BCA like 2 KKM barrels as backup) came reamed with cut leade/freebore not as long as KKM but long enough to allow 115/124 gr FMJ/RN to SAAMI max of 1.169" and link lists max/working OALs that will work with various bullets for unreamed Lone Wolf barrel (For comparison, RMR 124 gr FP MW max/working OAL at 1.075" and JHP MPR at 1.040") - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...g-oal-col-for-reference.848462/#post-11068321

 

[jmorris]

We all have good and bad range days. Even for me, there are days when I can't get any decent groupings. So how can we tell whether it's the new load or the shooter?

I use this.



Eliminates a huge variable, if I am shooting for accuracy and all I have is mixed brass, I sort it.

That said, if you don't want an endless search, set a goal to meet. "Most accurate", is a never ending search, the next combination of variables might just be more accurate, even if one 1000 trys ago, checked all the boxes..