(TN) Mass Stabbing at Schnucks(?) (merged threads)

[Double Naught Spy]

A grocery store employee attacked eight co-workers with knives Friday, seriously injuring five before a witness pulled a gun and stopped him, police said.

Why is it when a non-leo takes action they are a 'bystander' or 'witness' instead of being called something liked a "well prepared civic minded and situationally aware citizen"?

The hero of this story was not witness in the stands, he was most definitely a player.

 

[larry_minn]

To (slightly) defend the spokesperson. In todays society you can sue anyone for anything at anytime. The deeper the pockets the more likely it is to be sued. Citys are prime targets. They have deep pockets/lots of inurance and may employees. (to give your reason to sue)
So if instead spokesperson said. "We think its WONDERFUL that Mr. Cope went and got a gun and jumped in the middle of this situation"
Some people will take that as a request for anyone/everyone to become junior G-men. They will get hurt and say "but the POLICE told me to" and some court will give them $$$$. Even if some jury does not it will cost city $$$$$$ to defend.
CYA is name of game.

 

[Lupinus]

larry-
Which is why I believe self defense protection laws should be passed. In short if it is deemed that you were acting in defense of self or others (or if your home or other property you are residing in at the time are invaded such as your car)you should not be legally liable, both in criminal and civil court. It is time the victems be allowed to defend themselves or others without having to analize first if they will end up in jail or packing up their house cause the bad guys family is moving in next week.

If we can pass laws saying buisnesses engaging in legal activity can't be sued, I say we should pass the same saying victems of crime and break ins can't be dragged through the mud.

 

[Edmond]

It is time the victems be allowed to defend themselves or others without having to analize first if they will end up in jail or packing up their house cause the bad guys family is moving in next week.

I definitely agree with that. I really wonder how many times someone who was perfectly able and willing to help just hesitated for a second because the fear of litigation by the scum was in the back of their mind.

With so many places having good samaritan laws for helping people in general, it is time to pass legislation so when you are defending yourself or another from great bodily harm, you can't be dragged through the mud by some sleazy attorney that represents the criminal.

 

[.357 magnum]

Mr. Cope does it right!

I think that Mr. Cope did what any of us should have done-defend the innocent victims. As for the comment by LEO. Law enforcement is to be commended for the job they do, putting their lives on the line every day. But they cannot be everywhere at all times. We as citizens,neighbors, fathers, brothers, freinds should never just stand by and let the bad guys rule. God Bless Mr. Cope! He knows the good guys should NEVER put up with any **** from the bad guys!!!

Evil men will go as far as you let them! -Hey its me quoting me.

 

[Lupinus]

to me once someone enters your home without your permission and unless the state can proove without any doubt that you executed him, you should be protected from any legal or civil liability. If someone attacks you anywhere anytime you should have similar protection unless, agian, the state can proove you executed the perp. Same goes for defending others. But then agian I also think you should be within your rights to shoot a theif stealing or defacing property over five hundred dollars. I don't think you should be able to shoot someone for stealing some apples from your apple tree but if someone is making off with your laptop or defacing your custom paint jobed car or motercycle you should be able to shoot them IMO. So take my opinion as you will.*

*Note that I am not advocating doing such since it is illegal just about anywhere and morally questionable to many people, and since it is illegal even I wouldn't do it even though I believe I should have the right to. I am just expressing how I personally believe it should be, not how it is or that you should.

 

[Edmond]

But then agian I also think you should be within your rights to shoot a thief stealing or defacing property over five hundred dollars.

Personally, I wouldn't do that, I'd just want to beat the crap out of them.

But I do agree that once someone has entered your dwelling without your persmission and refuses to leave, you should be able to use lethal force. I mean, if a person can't be safe in his own home, where can he be safe at?

 

[Waitone]

Report I read said nothing about a firearm.

Let's follow the development of this story and see how fast or if the gun drops from the details.

 

[Lupinus]

edmund-

as said at the end I don't advocate it and wouldn't do it being illegal, I just think you should be allowed to do so. Basically anything short of outright executing them, basically if they are begging you not to kill them or are running like a bat out of hell for the door and you shoot them in the back and such. Unathorized entry, defending yourself, and protecting your property of a value over five hundred dollars should all be protected legally to do what you feel is needed in the situation short of executing a subject clearly trying to flee (in the case of stealing without the item being stolen) or that is otherwise subdude.

 

[Croyance]

Isn't this the same as this post in Legal & Political?

 

[motoman]

Even before I got to the end of this story, I knew a statement like that would be in there.

"We commend him," Higgins said. "But we don't encourage people to take that kind of risk. He could have been hurt."

I think the police say this stuff to try to keep a monopoly on the protection business. If everyone were capable of protecting themselves, they would not be needed in such a large scale.


Motoman

 

[Cosmoline]

VERY interesting.

An earlier mainstream media version of this story ommitted the gun and claimed Cope "tackled him".

I noticed the same thing, Jim. The radio reports I heard said nothing about an armed citizen stopping it.

So if instead spokesperson said. "We think its WONDERFUL that Mr. Cope went and got a gun and jumped in the middle of this situation"
Some people will take that as a request for anyone/everyone to become junior G-men. They will get hurt and say "but the POLICE told me to" and some court will give them $$$$. Even if some jury does not it will cost city $$$$$$ to defend.

That's complete hogwash. Governments enjoy extensive immunity from suit. Besides, I've never seen a verified report of a suit such as the one you describe even being brought. The police spokesmen and chiefs say this for the same reason so many of them are antis. They like to see the sheep helpless because helpless sheep are more likely to keep paying the protection money. Now keep in mind there's often a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between what the police admins say and what the actual cops tell the actual shooter.

 

[.45TCB]

From the Memphis Commercial Appeal's coverage of the story:

Company president and CEO Scott Schnuck flew from St. Louis, where the grocery chain is based, as soon as he learned of the stabbing and visited the victims and their families. "I was shocked and deeply saddened by the events of the day," he said at a press conference Friday night. He said the company is setting up counseling and other services for "people affected by today's events."

Since the Schnuck's company was a strong opponent of the CCW law in Missouri, I wonder if this event changes Mr. Schnuck's stance on civilian CCW: Schnuck's - Friendliest Anti-Gun Rights Stores in Town.

 

[ilbob]

I suspect there is probably an approved list of things the police spokesman is allowed to say and he just selects the most appropriate statement from the list. Thats the way it works with virtually every spokesman for every organization.

I agree it does sound inane, but the same kind of inane statement probably could just as easily come from a spokesman for the grocery chain.

 

[mountainclmbr]

The gun was left out of the news I saw from one of the Denver stations. I remember thinking that a CCW holder could have put an end to this kind of rampage. Turns out that it did happen and the anti's want to censor that aspect of the story.

 

[Edmond]

May someone should write to Schnuck's and tell them to start donating to anti-knife legislation...

 

[Technosavant]

What Schnuckies carry policy is? If any... I could swear there is an old thread about this somewhere..

Very much anti. They spent a fair amount of cash trying to ensure that MO remained a criminal protection zone, and all of their stores in MO are posted against CCW (can't vouch for TN, but if they aren't posted, it isn't because the management doesn't want to do so).

I like Schnucks markets (am a former employee), but until they reverse this stand, I refuse to darken their door- there are two other quite good grocery chains here in the STL area (where Schnucks is headquartered), and I patronize those instead.

 

[Waitone]

Can anyone provide evidence that wire services produce two or more variations of the same story. "Wrestle to the ground" is factually different from "held at gunpoint" as they way in which the assault was ended.

 

[DKSuddeth]

anyone who read this in any other internet news venue where the article stated that the attacker was 'tackled' or otherwise and no gun was mentioned, please put the link up in this thread.

 

[Ditchtiger]

here in the left coast,orygun,all i heard was 7or 8 peaple injured in a knife attack.one woman who was interviewed,(the only clip aired)was upset that she was almost the next victim.there was nothing on how the attack ended

 

[JesseJames]

My hats off and applause to Mr. Cope. Well done sir well done.

 

[trashpickinman]

Tackled: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9555861/detail.html

 

[snowtigger]

I e-mailed the Denver channel to let them know they can't get away with ihis in the day of the internet.

 

[JesseJames]

Wow.
I'm trying to give the local media of this story the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps lazy reporting?
Why didn't they mention how an armed citizen prevented it from becoming worse?

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Mainstream Media IGNORED the gun-wielding HERO

It's a shame, but CNN and the other Mainstream Media outlets totally IGNORED the fact that a gun-wielding Hero brought the tragedy to a sudden end. I wasn't there but if a running man holding a knife and chasing people in my presence had even looked at the man holding the gun, he should have been taken out on the spot.