To use a handload or a factory load for defense?

[HANDLOADER]

I have been handloading for more years than I would loke to say but in all those years I have always used my handloads for defense in a carry gun and my home defense gun. But I have been thinking lately if I have to use my defense guns in a life or death sitation could I be proscuted for using my own handloads?

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

It depends on who the DA/CA is. In some places they may try to go after you for it, but in many places they'd call it a good shoot and that'd be the end of it. I personally wouldn't chance it, but thats because my CA is a raving anti.

 

[Biker]

If it's a good shoot, it don't matter.

Biker

 

[fletcher]

If it's a good shoot, it don't matter.

Pretty much. If there's enough doubt that the type of round you used is up for discussion, odds are you probably shouldn't have shot.

 

[kingpin008]

Seriously, I've never heard of a case where the use of handloads of any type were used successfully against an individual. If the shoot is good, it's good. Period. Granted, that doesn't mean that you won't go broke fighting to defend yourself in court, or avoid jail, but that's the risk you take no matter what when you use deadly force to defend your life these days.

Use what's effective. If you handload and really want to play it safe, find out what your local PD uses and duplicate the load. Problem solved.

 

[DWARREN123]

I use handloads in my carry guns. I have searched but not been able to find a case where this was a factor. I make and use good inexpensive ammo, not killer ammunition.

 

[TAB]

not worth the risk IMO...

 

[ArmedBear]

I don't know about a criminal case, but I might be concerned about a civil suit.

Cor-bon is a "premium self-defense load". The same bullet and powder that you load yourself could enable a sharp shyster to say, "He sat around in the evening, loading his own special cartridges not just to stop an intruder, but to intentionally cause as much physical damage as possible. And that is why my client is a quadriplegic."

 

[MinnMooney]

Every tactical/self-defense book, school and article that I've read says to shoot what you practice with.
I wouldn't even think about using factory loads for self defense because 99% of my practice is with the same reloads that I have in my carrygun and my under-the-pillow gun. I'm certainly not going to trust some loads that I have limited practice with or trust in.

And that is why my client is a quadriplegic."

Actually it should be, "And that's why my client is a robbing, law-breaking quadriplegic."

 

[Jake in TX]

I use factory loads in my carry guns, but because they are (supposedly) tested for expansion, and my hand loads are not. Here in Texas, if the shoot is good, then no civil suit can follow. Our state legislature passed this in the past year.

Jake in TX

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm certainly not going to trust some loads that I have limited practice with or trust in.

Shrug.

If I can mix-and-match a magazine and I can't tell the difference, I don't see why I would care. Why not load practice loads to the same velocity, with the same bullet weight as factory defensive loads?

they are (supposedly) tested for expansion, and my hand loads are not.

Exactly. Paper-punching loads are tested on... paper.

 

[Zundfolge]

This has come up here several times and frankly I think the fear over using hand loads for self defense is a bunch of silly paranoid BS.

I can't get anyone to find ONE SINGLE SOLITARY CASE where someone involved in a self defense shooting has been prosecuted for using hand loads or has been sued for using hand loads.

In fact I'd be willing to bet that in the vast majority of self defense shootings, the DA doesn't have even the slightest idea what brand of ammo was used, let alone whether the ammo was "hand loaded" or not.

Cor-bon is a "premium self-defense load". The same bullet and powder that you load yourself could enable a sharp shyster to say, "He sat around in the evening, loading his own special cartridges not just to stop an intruder, but to intentionally cause as much physical damage as possible. And that is why my client is a quadriplegic."

1) show me where this has EVER happened in the real world.
2) any sharp shyster that could say that could also say "He went out and bought extra destructive Cor-Bon Premium loads because he didn't want to just stop the intruder but intentionally cause as much physical damage as possible. And that is why my client is a quadriplegic." or "He went out and got special killing training and a carry license just so he could shoot people"

 

[Jim March]

Every once in a while a case turns up where it's necessary to prove the distance between assailant and shooter.

In those instances, factory ammo can help: more of the same type can be shot in a lab to test the dispersion rates of fried powder spatter from your gun at various ranges. In some cases, esp. where the distance is under 7 to 10 feet, it's possible to nail down to the nearest foot or less the distance from gun to bullet impact site.

 

[WoofersInc]

I follow Massad Ayoob's writing's quite frequently and can recall multiple times where he states it is not a good idea to use handloads. His reccomendation is to use the same load that local law enforcement uses. Makes the issue of what bullet you used a moot point.
I go with the philosophy of why give the other side any leverage what-so-ever to use against you.

 

[XD_fan]

Ayoob had an article ,IIRC, in Guns magazine last year about this. I vaguely remember this was a prosecution of a man who "allowed" his wife to commit suicide. The handgun contained handloads and the inconsistency in the test results were used against the man. Ayoob uses this a reason not to use handloads.

He does say that if you use handloads you better have good documentation of the load and not get it mixed in with the rest of your ammo.

Personally I use the Hydra-shok just like the local police. Pretty hard to make an argument against that.

 

[mekender]

im of the mindset that if its a good shoot, youll be fine...

if you are sitting on the couch watching the simpsons and someone kicks in your front door... i doubt youll have a problem even if you use a spear gun...

if you get into an argument with your brother over a parking spot at the mall, and he gets shot... well id say that youve got a problem... but the ammo is just going to be icing on the cake for the prosecutor, not the primary source of prosecution...

 

[kingpin008]

The same bullet and powder that you load yourself could enable a sharp shyster to say, "He sat around in the evening, loading his own special cartridges not just to stop an intruder, but to intentionally cause as much physical damage as possible. And that is why my client is a quadriplegic."

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...If it's the same bullet and powder as the Cor-Bon, all you'd have to do is say "the loads in my firearm are indentical in every way to the Cor-Bon brand ammunition the prosecution has just mentioned - the only difference is that they were produced by me, in the interest of cost effectiveness."

And they'd have nowhere to go. If the round is the same, it's the same. :banghead:

Every once in a while a case turns up where it's necessary to prove the distance between assailant and shooter.

In those instances, factory ammo can help: more of the same type can be shot in a lab to test the dispersion rates of fried powder spatter from your gun at various ranges. In some cases, esp. where the distance is under 7 to 10 feet, it's possible to nail down to the nearest foot or less the distance from gun to bullet impact site.

...Which is why you give the examiner the load you used, and a sample of the components, and have them test it. Why would it be any different or any easier if you were testing factory loads as opposed to home-rolled? Both use brass, powder, and bullets and can be duplicated easily.

 

[ArmedBear]

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...If it's the same bullet and powder as the Cor-Bon, all you'd have to do is say "the loads in my firearm are indentical in every way to the Cor-Bon brand ammunition the prosecution has just mentioned - the only difference is that they were produced by me, in the interest of cost effectiveness."

ROTFLMAO

Yeah, I'm sure that a jury will sympathize with your need to save 50 cents when you paralyzed the plaintiff. Better hope you're a likable guy otherwise...

 

[benEzra]

Every tactical/self-defense book, school and article that I've read says to shoot what you practice with.

I don't think I've ever heard that advice, honestly. Who could afford to practice with ammunition that is $15-$20 for a box of 20 rounds?

What I have generally read is, shoot enough of your carry load (couple hundred rounds) to ensure it feeds reliably in your gun, and train with something that is a reasonable ballistic facsimile of your carry load. Personally, I carry Remington Golden Saber these days, and practice with Winchester White Box.

 

[moooose102]

Here in Texas, if the shoot is good, then no civil suit can follow. Our state legislature passed this in the past year.

FINALLY, A STATE WITH A LITTLE COMMON SENSE! Now, if we can only get the other 49 states to think normally! the real risk in this situation is not with the law. if your shoot is legal, and right, nobody in any prosecuters office is going to care if you use a .22lr, or a 458 lott! it comes in states that do allow criminals, and their families to file civil suits against the law abideing person defending him or herself from a thug. as dumb as it seems, it happens, and it happens way to much. i do not know how to get our legislators to put a bill into motion, get it passed, and get our govenor to sign it into law. especially since our govenor is a bleeding heart woman. but, if any of you out there, who live in michigan, and who are intelegent enough, or have the political connections to get under one of our (i dont even know who) legislators to get this done, you would be doing all of us in michigan a BIG favor.

 

[ArmedBear]

Do the guys who write those books and articles shoot $2/round ammo through their guns at the rate of a few hundred rounds per week? Or do they use bulk target ammo for self-defense?

I'm betting they don't.

If they do give that advice, it's aimed at a homeowner who buys a gun and practices occasionally, not a handloader, or a recreational or competitive shooter.

 

[ArmedBear]

any sharp shyster that could say that could also say "He went out and bought extra destructive Cor-Bon Premium loads because he didn't want to just stop the intruder but intentionally cause as much physical damage as possible. And that is why my client is a quadriplegic."

Well, if I had to counter that, I'd rather tell the true story that I went to the gun shop and said, "Do you have any good rounds for a home defense gun?" and they sold me these, than explain how I studied up on how to load up a powerful man-stopping round with minimal muzzle flash, then mail-ordered some special bullets and powder...

 

[elliost]

Moose,

I believe FLA and OK have also passed legislation protecting the good guys from civil suits.

 

[Blakenzy]

Handloads won't put you at more risk in a good shoot, just as factory rounds won't make you safer in a bad shoot.

 

[kingpin008]

Yeah, I'm sure that a jury will sympathize with your need to save 50 cents when you paralyzed the plaintiff. Better hope you're a likable guy otherwise...

You're missing the point, despite it being pretty clear. Let's try again, and leave out the "saving money" side of things:

If you're on trial for a shooting and the prosecutor tries to pull the argument that your handload, while identical in every way, shape and form to X-brand "premium self-defense ammo" is somehow proof that you've done wrong, he will get laughed out of court.

Why? Because if it's the same, in every way, shape and form, what the hell difference does it make whether it's brand name, or home rolled?

Juries may be stupid, and they may be biased, but there is a limit. If you can show that your home-rolled stuff is completely identical to the X-brand premium stuff, and you can get a forensics lab to agree with you (which, if they're honest and they've tested your stuff they will) there's no way that the prosecution's argument would hold water.