Tokarev: Worth it?

[Panzerschwein]

Hello all! As some of you may know, I recently bought a Bulgarian Makarov and it is quickly becoming my favorite gun. It has been flawlessly reliable in the 1000 rounds I fired in it over the past two weeks, and is quite accurate and just a pleasure to shoot. 9x18mm Makarov ammo is relatively affordable at 19¢ per round.

But, I've been kind of wanting a Tokarev pistol. I have been seeing some Romanian imports being offered for cheap, about $250 for the pistol, two magazines, and accessories. Most are in factory refurbished condition, so should make very nice shooters.



But, there's a catch. Actually, two of them:

1. 7.62x25mm Tokarev ammunition is now pretty expensive. I don't reload, I don't have the time or space for it. It's all factory ammo for me, and in this caliber, that will set me back (at time of this post) 28¢ or so per round for surplus ammo, to about 31¢ per round for commercial stuff (Prvi Partisan, Fiocchi etc.). So, it's going to be about 1.5 times the cost of 9x18mm Makarov per round, so basically a dime more every time I pull the trigger.

2. The Romanian Tokarev (and almost all impored Tokarevs) come with a tacked on aftermarket trigger safety. These are not original to the guns, look out of place and unsightly, and just kind of detract from the historical aspect to an extent. They can be removed, but leave a huge gaping hole in the frame of the gun. These were added to the pistols to meet US import restrictions only, and are real abominations if you ask me.

So, while a Tokarev is neat, today the ammo is quite a bit more expensive than 9x18mm Makarov ammo, and the goofy lawyered up import safety is annoying.

So, should I still get one? Are they "worth it", at least to you? At these low prices, should I snag a Tokarev up even if it might not be ideal? Or should I just stick with my trusty and excellent Makarovs?

Any feedback on these Romanian Tokarevs would be greatly appreciated. I'm just trying to see if one should have a place in my collection while they're still relatively cheap, even if it's a gun I wouldn't shoot that much due to relatively pricey ammo.

Thanks guys!!

 

[Kiln]

Get the Tokarev if you are okay with the ammo cost and it being single action only.

 

[adcoch1]

I had a tokarev in 9mm with the safety and it was an amazing shooter, but i wanted something else more so i let it go. If it had been in 7.62x25 i never would have sold it. I got a set of thick black plastic grips for the 9mm that kinda hid how far out the safety stuck, but eventually i just pulled the safety and put the original grips back on. You could hunt around for a slide not drilled for the safety, but i am not really optimistic that you're gonna find one. For 250 or less the tokarev is worth the higher ammo cost since its such a hoot to shoot. But don't sell the makarov.

Sent from my LGLS740 using Tapatalk

 

[Panzerschwein]

I had a tokarev in 9mm with the safety and it was an amazing shooter, but i wanted something else more so i let it go. If it had been in 7.62x25 i never would have sold it. I got a set of thick black plastic grips for the 9mm that kinda hid how far out the safety stuck, but eventually i just pulled the safety and put the original grips back on. You could hunt around for a slide not drilled for the safety, but i am not really optimistic that you're gonna find one. For 250 or less the tokarev is worth the higher ammo cost since its such a hoot to shoot. But don't sell the makarov.

Sent from my LGLS740 using Tapatalk

If you look at the picture, the safety isn't on the slide for the Romanian Tokarevs, but the frame. If you take it out, it leaves a massive hole.

 

[GBExpat]

... So, should I still get one? Are they "worth it", at least to you? At these low prices, should I snag a Tokarev up even if it might not be ideal? Or should I just stick with my trusty and excellent Makarovs? ...

Yes, yes, yes, no.

You will not know if a Tok is ideal for you until you have a chance to put some rounds thru it.

I have a bunch of TT-33s and Variants ... and 2 Makarovs.

The Maks don't do a thing for me, just not a fan (same with SKSs). They haven't been out of the gunsafe in years.

The Tokarevs, otoh, I find to be wonderful little pistols.

The TT33-size grips are just right (with no length to spare) for my hands (long, thin fingers & wear size Large gloves).

 

[adcoch1]

If you look at the picture, the safety isn't on the slide for the Romanian Tokarevs, but the frame. If you take it out, it leaves a massive hole.

Oh sorry, the picture didn't load for me, yeah that one does leave quite the crater in the rear of the frame. Maybe build a plug to fill the hole?

Sent from my LGLS740 using Tapatalk

 

[Panzerschwein]

Oh sorry, the picture didn't load for me, yeah that one does leave quite the crater in the rear of the frame. Maybe build a plug to fill the hole?

Sent from my LGLS740 using Tapatalk

I've seen some do it, but most of the time it looks worse than the safety.

 

[MedWheeler]

I have one I just recently got, but haven't shot it yet. I got it to use as a shooter as much as for its origins. The safety is indeed obtrusive, but I am not (yet) bothered by its presence. I was surprised by how much I actually like its feel and lines, despite the different grip angle. It's also surprisingly easy to rack the slide (even one-handed using the rear sight against your jeans pocket) when the hammer is pre-cocked.

I'm trying to round out my Commie-Bloc surplus pistol array. As you might remember, I already have the Bulgarian Makarov and a CZ-70 (another pistol you might like to sample and consider), as well as a FeG PA-series in .22LR.

My next one will be the P64 you disliked so much.

 

[kokapelli]

I had two in 9mm made in China. I don't think I ever had a better shooting pistol.

The problem with the Chinese pistol was they are only good for around 3,000 rounds so I shot them until they fell apart and at $89 apiece I tossed them after the slides started to deform.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I have one I just recently got, but haven't shot it yet. I got it to use as a shooter as much as for its origins. The safety is indeed obtrusive, but I am not (yet) bothered by its presence. I was surprised by how much I actually like its feel and lines, despite the different grip angle. It's also surprisingly easy to rack the slide (even one-handed using the rear sight against your jeans pocket) when the hammer is pre-cocked.

I'm trying to round out my Commie-Bloc surplus pistol array. As you might remember, I already have the Bulgarian Makarov and a CZ-70 (another pistol you might like to sample and consider), as well as a FeG PA-series in .22LR.

My next one will be the P64 you disliked so much.

It's not that I dislike the P-64s, I find them to be very cool and it's neat how they are so small. But the one I shot just was not a pleasant experience, with an insane double-action pull weight and stiff recoil and slide bite issues. None of these are a problem with my Bulgarian Makarov, but it is indeed a bit larger of a pistol.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I have a Yugoslavian Tokarev. Interesting little pistol, but, like most East Bloc equipment, refined it ain't.

 

[GBExpat]

I have a Yugoslavian Tokarev. Interesting little pistol, but, like most East Bloc equipment, refined it ain't.

[OT] Reminds me a true story ... details from ancient memory ...

In the mid-'60s the USAF became worried about the capabilities of a new Soviet fighter, the MiG-25, IIRC.

A defecting pilot flew one to Japan in the mid '70s. The "experts" first impression was that it was surprisingly unrefined, somewhat crude, even.

The part that stuck with me was the fact that the rivets on large areas of the plane were not flush rivets. Crude.

Until ... scale model wind tunnel testing showed that in those areas flush rivets were not required ... so the Soviets did not waste the time/effort/resources.



Along the same lines as how the Americans spent a million dollars designing a ball-point pen that would write in space ... and the Soviets simply gave their guy a wooden pencil. <chuckle> [/OT]

 

[Tommygunn]

[OT] Reminds me a true story ... details from ancient memory ...

In the mid-'60s the USAF became worried about the capabilities of a new Soviet fighter, the MiG-25, IIRC.

A defecting pilot flew one to Japan in the mid '70s. The "experts" first impression was that it was surprisingly unrefined, somewhat crude, even.

The part that stuck with me was the fact that the rivets on large areas of the plane were not flush rivets. Crude.

Until ... scale model wind tunnel testing showed that in those areas flush rivets were not required ... so the Soviets did not waste the time/effort/resources.

I recall this; a book titled "MiG Pilot" was published detailing the story of the pilot, Viktor Belenko. We pretty much dissected the MiG 25 Foxbat and returned it later (to Belenko's horror; he considered it a "gift" to America).
The plane could go Mach 3, but only at the expense of burning up its Tumanski engines, had radar so powerful it could burn through most American countermeasures, as well as microwave rabbits down the runway from the jet on take-off (killing the wee beasties) but it couldn't out dog-fight an older F-4 Phantom. It was designed to intercept the American B-70 Valkery .... which we cancelled. We were surprised its avionics used vacuum tubes when we'd gone solid state....but hey, IT WORKED.

Along the same lines as how the Americans spent a million dollars designing a ball-point pen that would write in space ... and the Soviets simply gave their guy a wooden pencil. <chuckle> [/OT]

Those were the "Fisher Space Pen." They still make them and sell them today, and guess what ......

....they are very very nice pens. They write smoothly, at any angle, and look real snazzy! I have several, including the style that was actually used by the Apollo Astronauts (and I've even seen originals at the nearby Space Center in Huntsville, Al. where astronauts' possessions have been on display).

 

[Panzerschwein]

Steer on back guys.

Got to see if a Romy Tok is one I need to add to the armory...

 

[springer99]

I'd say go ahead and get one while some good deals are still around.

I picked up one from Classic Arms for my son last year for a gift. He was always talking about getting one, as he ran into them all the time while serving in the gulf. The one I got from Classic was about as NIB as you can find, and cleaned up wonderfully. Yes the surplus ammo has dried up for now, but even so, this gun is a hoot to shoot. A lot more accurate than it has a right to be for it's price. If I only wanted one surplus commy gun and had to choose between the Makarov's or a Tok. I would take the Tokarev and not look back. I had a good Makarov some time back and, while it was a good gun, I found it large and heavy for the caliber involved. The Tokarev solves that problem.

 

[tark]

Too bad the surplus Yugo model 57s have dried up. They have a safety that is NOT unsightly and works exactly as a 1911 safety. Even kind of looks like one. It is the best add-on safety I have ever seen. The new Toks from Zastava have the safety in the slide which looks fine, but it operates backwards. I would post pics but my stupid moron computer has unilaterally decided to stop working the way it always has.

By all means get the Tokarev! They are a hoot. They have a muzzle blast like a howitzer without excessive recoil and they will penetrate trees and walls and cars like nothing else. At least the surplus steel jacketed ammo (Which J&G now has again) will. I have a 9" pine tree in my yard that has some 7.62X25 holes in it. Zipped right through. My Zastava M-88 in 9X19 will not equal that level of performance.

Think I figured out the puter. Lets see if it posts right side up. Gun is my M-57 surplus.

 

[tark]

Oh, well. one out of two ain't bad. At least the pic shows that nifty safety. Only difference in function from a 1911 safety is this. It can be applied if the hammer is down.

 

[Navy_Guns]

+1 for the Zastava M57 version, it takes a 9-round magazine and has a slightly longer grip but they are BRAND NEW, unfired and the one I got last month is a beauty compared to the refurb Tok I have with the bubba safety in the frame.

 

[Onmilo]

I have a Romanian Cugir Tokarev in my collection.
Fun shooting handgun.
I reload using 7.63 Mauser dies and keep the loads on the lower side of the power level.

Only real problem with The Tokarev nowadays is keeping and finding decent amounts of reloading bullets or loaded ammunition at reasonable prices.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks guys. I've heard some say these Romanian Cugir Tokarevs are rather low quality, at least quite a bit lower quality than a Russian or Polish Tokarev... any truth to this?

 

[tark]

I've heard that the East German Toks were the best quality. Never seen one. The Yugo M-57 I have is the best looking Surplus Tok I have seen. The commercial M-88 from Zastava are a step above the surplus guns in exterior finish and they are available in 9mm, but the 7.62X25 ammo is considerably more powerful, and is a better tree killer. The Winchester white box ammo is loaded to 1645 FPS but I haven't seen any of it in quite some time.

As far as the Romanian quality goes, it is considerably below the Yugo M-57, which itself is below an average 1911A1. Most Tokarevs are a bit rough around the edges, but, in a curious way, that is their charm. They are a cheaply built crudely finished gun that fulfills their intended role superbly They are rough as a cob, but possessed of several brilliant innovations, like the drop in sear/hammer/mainspring/disconnector unit.

To me, the best Tokarev option is not to bey a surplus gun at all. Get a M-88 from Zastava. They are well finished, brand new, under $300 and available in 7.62X25

Have fun killing trees.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I've heard that the East German Toks were the best quality. Never seen one. The Yugo M-57 I have is the best looking Surplus Tok I have seen. The commercial M-88 from Zastava are a step above the surplus guns in exterior finish and they are available in 9mm, but the 7.62X25 ammo is considerably more powerful, and is a better tree killer. The Winchester white box ammo is loaded to 1645 FPS but I haven't seen any of it in quite some time.

As far as the Romanian quality goes, it is considerably below the Yugo M-57, which itself is below an average 1911A1. Most Tokarevs are a bit rough around the edges, but, in a curious way, that is their charm. They are a cheaply built crudely finished gun that fulfills their intended role superbly They are rough as a cob, but possessed of several brilliant innovations, like the drop in sear/hammer/mainspring/disconnector unit.

To me, the best Tokarev option is not to bey a surplus gun at all. Get a M-88 from Zastava. They are well finished, brand new, under $300 and available in 7.62X25

Have fun killing trees.

The Zastava M88 is a compact, shorter barreled 9x19mm version of the Tokarev. I am not interested in that.

 

[springer99]

Thanks guys. I've heard some say these Romanian Cugir Tokarevs are rather low quality, at least quite a bit lower quality than a Russian or Polish Tokarev... any truth to this?

Never owned a Russion or Polish Tok, so I can't offer a comparison here. What I can say is that the Romanian Tok that I got from Classic Arms was far from what I would call "crude". Machining was just as nice as on the Makarov's I've owned and the finish was great and un-blemished. The only downside to the machining I saw was that the machining on the slide and frame internal surfaces was so sharp it could cut. We had to stone a few surfaces, just to cut those sharp edges.

 

[dh1633pm]

Had a Chinese on in the 90's. It had machine marks all over it. Wouldn't cycle with until I took it apart and polished the offending parts. After that it was an fairly good shooter. Used it to learn how to parkerise metal parts.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Never owned a Russion or Polish Tok, so I can't offer a comparison here. What I can say is that the Romanian Tok that I got from Classic Arms was far from what I would call "crude". Machining was just as nice as on the Makarov's I've owned and the finish was great and un-blemished. The only downside to the machining I saw was that the machining on the slide and frame internal surfaces was so sharp it could cut. We had to stone a few surfaces, just to cut those sharp edges.

Very cool.

What are the thoughts on the safeties that come on Romy Toks? Are they okay to leave in, if not use? Will they cause reliability issues? The reason I ask is because I have read about recalls and others problems with them. It is unsightly, and I plan to leave it off safe and just use the pistol as designed. But, if the added safety is a problem child, I might leave this one to others...