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Panzerschwein
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Can anyone offer any technical opinion on the add on safeties for these? Ugly, sure, but will it cause the firearm to misfire?
Tokarev: Worth it?
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lsudave
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I have a couple of Chinese (T-54), the fit and finish on those were both nice. One is significantly older than the other, and the bluing has faded a lot. Both are very smooth to operate, outside of the safety.
I can't speak to the European safeties, but the Chinese safety was placed at the rear of the frame. The metal was significantly poorer in quality than the actual gun's.
A pair of tiny cheap screws was holding the safety on, about the size and quality of the screws you find in the hinges of a pair of glasses. My older pistol, the previous owner had removed the safety and put it back on to sell it. One of the screws had broken, was crumbling actually, and the grit from the debris caused the slide to seize up in the locked back position.
After removing the rest of the crappy safety, I thoroughly cleaned the gun and got all the remaining metal "sand" (screw particles) out, and it's been functioning 100% again. I did change from oil on everything, to grease on the rails (I rubbed some Mobil 1 synthetic grease along the surfaces that come into contact). This seems to make it even smoother.
Given that the grit made the pistol lock up, I was concerned about leaving a large hole exposed in the frame. I put some grips on that cover the hole. I'm not sure you can do that with the Romanian or Polish ones.
I can't speak to the European safeties, but the Chinese safety was placed at the rear of the frame. The metal was significantly poorer in quality than the actual gun's.
A pair of tiny cheap screws was holding the safety on, about the size and quality of the screws you find in the hinges of a pair of glasses. My older pistol, the previous owner had removed the safety and put it back on to sell it. One of the screws had broken, was crumbling actually, and the grit from the debris caused the slide to seize up in the locked back position.
After removing the rest of the crappy safety, I thoroughly cleaned the gun and got all the remaining metal "sand" (screw particles) out, and it's been functioning 100% again. I did change from oil on everything, to grease on the rails (I rubbed some Mobil 1 synthetic grease along the surfaces that come into contact). This seems to make it even smoother.
Given that the grit made the pistol lock up, I was concerned about leaving a large hole exposed in the frame. I put some grips on that cover the hole. I'm not sure you can do that with the Romanian or Polish ones.
amd6547
Member
My Romanian Tok has the add on safety. It doesn't affect the operation of the pistol at all...I just ignore it.
I'd rather not have the safety, but if it makes the Tok importable at a bargain price, then great.
I'd rather not have the safety, but if it makes the Tok importable at a bargain price, then great.
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Panzerschwein
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Thanks all. I have found a couple Russian Tokarevs that don't have safeties offered on Gunbroker, going for about $1000 each. I wonder if getting one without a safety would be worth the additional $800?
Sergei Mosin
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The Soviet Tokarevs are more collector items. If you just want a shooter, don't worry about the safety; buy one of the inexpensive Eastern European copies and put the extra money into ammo. It's not a gun you're going to want to carry anyway so the safety really doesn't matter.
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Panzerschwein
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Sounds good. I already have my Makarov PM for carry.
I am just buying this because a part of me has always wanted a Tokarev TT-33. I have held off due to the sharp increase in price of 7.62x25mm ammo since the surplus dried up. But since I'm find Romanian TTC Tokarevs being offered on the surplus sights for very little cost now, and that ammo isn't cheap but not terribly expensive, makes me want one, even if the add on safety isn't so nice. I wouldn't be shooting this gun all the time, again, my PMs will be better for this due to substantially less expensive ammunition.
lsudave
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For cheap shooting, there are several Tokarevs that are in 9x19. The Chinese T-54 can be either 9mm or 7.62, you just need to find the Chinese 9mm barrel (far as I know, the exterior of the barrel is the same, so you don't need to swap the bushing or anything).
I know, I own one.
It runs fine with regular magazines, the bullets are a little short in the mag but they feed just fine.
The T-54 is an exact Tok, and if you find a Chinese 9mm barrel it should drop right into a Romanian or Polish gun.
The Zastava/Yugo T57 has a 9mm option too, but I don't know if it's as easy a swap.
I know, I own one.
It runs fine with regular magazines, the bullets are a little short in the mag but they feed just fine.
The T-54 is an exact Tok, and if you find a Chinese 9mm barrel it should drop right into a Romanian or Polish gun.
The Zastava/Yugo T57 has a 9mm option too, but I don't know if it's as easy a swap.
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Panzerschwein
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I have owned an M70A.
It would drop the hammer... with the gun on safe. There was a problem with the interaction between the trigger bow and the plunger that hit the firing pin block, if I remember correctly. I fixed it but the gun just wouldn't reliably feed even ball. After trying to deal with Zastava's customer service, I sold the gun with full discretion.
Also, I am wanting a more authentic Tokarev design with the original length "8-round" grip frame. And, I've got plenty of 9mms. The 7.62x25mm is sort of a romantic and intriguing cartridge, but one that is pretty pricey nowadays. Still, I want to see that cartridge is about. It will be an occasional, but semi-regular shooter. The price of factory ammo isn't too bad for that.
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Panzerschwein
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Okay guys, after some more research I decided to get one of these:
https://www.classicfirearms.com/romanian-ttc-tokarev-pistol
It appears the safeties don't cause issues for most people. These ones from Classic Firearms get nice reviews, and are supposed to be in excellent condition. I am really excited to finally own a real Tokarev! It will make a great companion for my Bulgarian Makarovs. I won't shoot it as much as my Maks, due to the pricier ammo, but should still be a fun and neat gun. It also comes with a holster, cleaning rod, and two magazines.
What do you guys think?
https://www.classicfirearms.com/romanian-ttc-tokarev-pistol
It appears the safeties don't cause issues for most people. These ones from Classic Firearms get nice reviews, and are supposed to be in excellent condition. I am really excited to finally own a real Tokarev! It will make a great companion for my Bulgarian Makarovs. I won't shoot it as much as my Maks, due to the pricier ammo, but should still be a fun and neat gun. It also comes with a holster, cleaning rod, and two magazines.
What do you guys think?
MedWheeler
Member
Good price. If you've wanted "a real Tokarev", you might as well get it. I got mine for more than that simply because it was in front of me at Gander Mountan and I knew if I waited to shop online, I'd probably end up not doing so right away..
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Panzerschwein
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Yeah there was some hesitation... just like their was for my Bulgarian Makarov, which is quickly becoming one of my favorites guns ever.
I'm still a bit worried about the safety, but hopefully this gun will surprise me just like my Bulgy Mak.
Swing
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The only Tokarev I ever owned was Yugo M57 and it was a real POS. The safety didn't work well: sometimes when disengaged, the gun would fail to go bang. One of the magazines had a nasty habit of dumping itself when I round was fired. I eventually got rid of it. May have been just a lemon, but from what I've read elsewhere, my experience wasn't uncommon. Now that the cheap ammo for the Tok has dried up, there is less of an appeal to acquire one now. YMMV.
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Panzerschwein
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Yeah I feel you Swing. My M70A (also a Zastava product) did not perform very well.
If this gun doesn't work good or is just not a good thing, I'll kick it to the curb and move on with life. If anything, my Bulgarian Makarovs will be waiting for me because I already know they're awesome.
If this gun doesn't work good or is just not a good thing, I'll kick it to the curb and move on with life. If anything, my Bulgarian Makarovs will be waiting for me because I already know they're awesome.
lsudave
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It sucks to hear the Zastava's weren't very good. I've been pleased with my Chinese, but as you noted, there's a little difference between the true Tok and the Zastava.
Most of what I've heard regarding these in general- the milsurps are solid, the commercial products are a bit sketchy. Yugo's, Chinese, the Russian Maks, they all seem to follow this line. Makes sense- the Cold War military required a working firearm, while later on, it was just a money grab to sell something to the (US) public.
Most of what I've heard regarding these in general- the milsurps are solid, the commercial products are a bit sketchy. Yugo's, Chinese, the Russian Maks, they all seem to follow this line. Makes sense- the Cold War military required a working firearm, while later on, it was just a money grab to sell something to the (US) public.
tark
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You guys got some real lemons!! I have two Zastavas , a M-57 surplus and an M-70 commercial in 9mm Both have been superb. The M-57 had digested over a thousand rounds of surplus and a couple hundred rounds of commercial.
Not a single stoppage. Many trees killed.....to the intense irritation of my tree hugging dirt worshiping liberal friends.
Not a single stoppage. Many trees killed.....to the intense irritation of my tree hugging dirt worshiping liberal friends.
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Panzerschwein
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Ah, I see Tark. Yes I've read of others who have had no issues. I wasn't one!
Hopefully this Romy Tok will measure out. I don't plan on shooting it much as my PMs, but do want a Tokarev just to say "I have a Tokarev" and to shoot it some.
MedWheeler
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Cooldill, I assume your next post will be either to confirm you have already ordered it, or to tell us you have it in hand.
Nothing else will do.
Nothing else will do.
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Panzerschwein
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It's on it's way now to my local FFL dealer here in town.Cooldill, I assume your next post will be either to confirm you have already ordered it, or to tell us you have it in hand.
Nothing else will do.
I pray to God that it isn't a bad one.
giggitygiggity
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Get one. They are fun to shoot... Low recoil and a big muzzle flash. They are getting harder and harder to find and more expensive as a result. A couple years ago, Yugo M57s, Romanian TTCs, and Polish TTCs could be found for $250 or below (typically $190-210 for Romanians). Now the Yugoslavian and Polish models have dried up and the Romanians are $220 or more and not offered in as many places. Get one or two while you can!
Prince Yamato
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I used to have a Roman Tokarev.
They're super-reliable and have the recoil of a 9mm. Fun to shoot. They are extremely loud, but mainly to the people around you, not to the shooter.
The surplus ammo is crap. I had a couple cases of it. It all shot the same, which is to say average.
New 7.62x25 is nice and shoots more accurately.
Do NOT dry fire the tokarev, as you will snap the firing pin return spring pin (the thing that keeps the firing pin from falling out). Ask me how I know this.
The safety is a half-cocked hammer. It was good enough for the Soviets. Most people will tell you not to carry them chambered. That's probably good advice. The import-added safety isn't really a safety.
They're super-reliable and have the recoil of a 9mm. Fun to shoot. They are extremely loud, but mainly to the people around you, not to the shooter.
The surplus ammo is crap. I had a couple cases of it. It all shot the same, which is to say average.
New 7.62x25 is nice and shoots more accurately.
Do NOT dry fire the tokarev, as you will snap the firing pin return spring pin (the thing that keeps the firing pin from falling out). Ask me how I know this.
The safety is a half-cocked hammer. It was good enough for the Soviets. Most people will tell you not to carry them chambered. That's probably good advice. The import-added safety isn't really a safety.
tark
Member
I got some Polish surplus 7.62X25 ammo a few years ago from J&G. It has since dried up. Wish I had gotten a lot more. It was corrosive but it was also the most consistent, highest quality surplus Tok ammo I have ever seen. I pulled apart 10 rounds. The bullets all measured and weighted within 1% of each other. The powder charges were equally consistent. The rounds were steel jacketed and a magazine full printed 5" groups at 25 yards. Darn good for my old eyes and shaky hands. I got worse groups from commercial ammo in the same gun.
Not ALL surplus Tokarev ammo is mediocre to bad........and if you ever see any of that Polish stuff....grab it!
Not ALL surplus Tokarev ammo is mediocre to bad........and if you ever see any of that Polish stuff....grab it!
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Panzerschwein
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Thanks so much for the feedback guys. Seems like Classic Firearms is a slow shipper on this one. Hopefully they will finally get it out to my FFL next week.
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