Too Many Different Cartridges

[SP2000]

So I was reading this article and got to thinking. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/robert-farago/6-5-grendel-new-300-blackout/

Maybe if we didn't make about 5000 different cartridges, of which about 4990 overlap, we wouldn't have ammo shortages. I just don't understand it. Why so many when many are almost identical? :banghead:

 

[Arkansas Paul]

It's all about the Benjamins.

 

[Davek1977]

That might make sense, if we'd had the technology to create guns with today's capabilities a century ago. However, we didn't and we've incrementally increased performance since the dawn of firearms. Guns themselves last lifetimes with proper care, meaning that a lot of guns from 1900 and before are still perfectly serviceable....so long as one can get ammo for them, fueling a demand for every round that's gained a bit of traction since the dawn of the metallic cartridge. While its true one could do everything a shooter could "reasonably" need to do with a handful of cartridges, limiting production to those calibers would put millions of serviceable weapons completely out of service. Not every shooter wants to be limited to reloading their own ammo, and as long as there's a demand for it, companies will continue to produce a wide, wide variety of ammo to feed the wide variety of useable firearms

 

[buck460XVR]

I don't think the variety of cartridges has contributed much to the ammo shortage. Ain't much variety in .22 rimfire and they are the hardest to find.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

It would probably be worse if everyone had the same caliber. Then you would be competing with everyone for ammo. As it stands you are only competing with those who shoot the same thing as you do.

Most rifle stuff wasn't scarce anyway.
I deer hunt with a .30-06 and a .243 and there was never an instance I couldn't find the ammo on the shelf. Not that I buy ammo off the shelf, I don't. But it was available.

 

[km101]

Variety! Life would really be dull if everyone shot the same caliber. You would become so bored that you would lose interest. Variety is the spice of life, and I like it spicy!

 

[Eaglestroker]

Even at the peak of the crazy, I could walk in local stores and buy 41 Rem Mag if I wanted it. Variety isn't such a bad thing!

 

[RPRNY]

Perhaps if the Central Government would create an economic plan, say every five years and sort of tell companies what they should manufacture and how much of it...oh, wait ;-)

 

[SP2000]

I'm not knocking variety, I just think it's too much. Personally, I'll never own a rifle in anything besides 223 or 308. IMO, those or their brass/bullets will be around long after I'm gone.

 

[JohnM]

Too many!?!
The variety available is what it's all about.

 

[morcey2]

Let the market sort it out. The most common cartridges will go first in a panic leaving the less common ones on the shelf. Eventually, the less common ones will sell out as the more common ones start making a comeback as the ammo manufacturers focus on the low-hanging fruit.

I think every different chambering has it's own personality, and while there is a lot of overlap, that personality comes into play. There's only 0.007" difference in bullet diameter between 270 Win and 280 Rem and a very slight case capacity advantage in the 280 and there isn't anything functionally that one will do that the other can't do as well. But I've seen people almost come to blows arguing over which one is better. I'm building a 280 (probably. Still might become a 6.5-06 instead) simply because I already load for 7x57 and I think there is slightly better bullet selection for 0.284" bullets as compared to 0.277" and I'm already hoarding...er.. buying bullets in 7mm.

Matt

 

[Savage99]

A powerful word in sales or marketing is "new".

The sellers need to sell us something that we may already really have or don't need.

Guns last a very long time.

New.

 

[CoalTrain49]

5000 different cartridges was the result of the gun and ammo industry to get you to buy something NEW. Guns last too long so you get a few new cartridges every year to peak your interest. If you want to opt out just buy an old milsurp rifle, and stockpile the ammo.

That's what I did.

 

[Scooter567]

I read a stat last week about the number of new AR owners this past year. I wish I could remember the exact stat, but if I say it here it will be wrong, but just know that it was astronomical! My lgs can't seem to keep a gun on the shelf. I have to say it seems pretty ironic that when the fed govt wants to limit gun sales, it drives the market so much that there are no longer any guns available to be purchased. I know this is a slight overstatement, but it is true, isn't it? And having so many different calibers just means that there is something out there for everyone. Or another gun to buy for someone who already has several. More options means more gun sales. More gun sales means more ammo sales. And the govt wants more gun control? Keep scaring us and we'll keep buying more!

 

[Scooter567]

I apologize if that last post is not in line with the thinking on this site. If it is inflammatory or anything, I hope the moderators will just remove it. I didn't mean it to be inflammatory, just noting a good case of irony.. .

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

SP2000: You should never say "never" as it will come back to bite you. Part of the enjoyment of collecting for me has been finding a rifle I don't have, (usually something old or military surplus) buying a good example, and then buying the dies and supplies to reload it so I can shoot for the experience without worry.Do you like many flavors of ice cream or just vanilla and chocolate???

 

[rayatphonix]

I know your post was asking about the need, or lack of, all the different cartridges around and I agree with nearly all of the replies. What's surprised me is that nobody questioned the original article. I have a Grendel and I can't imagine why the author would put it in the same category as the 300 Blackout. About the only things they have in common is a) the both work out of an ar platform and b) they both use primers/powder and a bullet. The Blackout (Whisper is another version) was designed for subsonic rounds. As the author states, the Grendel was designed for long range shooting. To me it's like asking if the 30-06 is the next 45 ACP. I read the article twice and maybe I missed something.

 

[berettaprofessor]

40S&W was always available here over the past two years. At one time you couldn't even find 25 ACP but the 40 was available. Of course, 40S&W is about the only handgun caliber I don't have

 

[Sam1911]

It's one of the great ironies, right? Isn't it wonderful how many different cartridges there are? And every single new one (.26 Nosler anybody???) is so absurdly redundant as to be laughable.

I've posted this before, but it's always good for a chuckle, just at the scale of the "problem."

Here is the list of RIFLE cartriges, in caliber order, for which you can buy brass from Midway:

17 Remington Fireball
17 Remington
20 OTTR
20 Tactical
204 Ruger
5.6x33 Rimmed Rook
22 Hornet
218 Bee
221 Fireball
222 Remington
222 Rimmed
223 Remington
220 Russian
219 Zipper
225 Winchester
224 Weatherby Magnum
22-250 Remington
223 Winchester Super Short Magnum
220 Swift
5.6x52mm Rimmed (22 Savage High-Power)
6x45mm (6mm-223 Remington)
6mm PPC
6mm BR (Bench Rest)
6mm XC
243 Winchester
243 Winchester Ackley Improved
243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
240 Weatherby Magnum
6mm Remington
6mm-06 Springfield
6.17 Spitfire
240 Hawk
244 H&H Magnum
240 H&H Magnum
240 Gibbs
25-20 WCF
25-20 Single Shot
256 Winchester Magnum
25-21 Stevens
25-25 Stevens
25-36 Marlin
25-35 WCF
25 Remington
250 Savage
257 Roberts
25-06 Remington
25 Gibbs
25 Winchester Super Short Magnum
257 Weatherby Magnum
6.53 Scramjet
257 STW
6.5x53 Rimmed
6.5 Grendel
264 SALZ (264 Salisbury)
6.5mm Japanese
6.5mm Carcano
6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5x47mm Lapua
260 Remington
6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser
6.5mm-257 Roberts
6.5x58mm Rimmed Sauer
256 Newton
6.5mm-284 Winchester (Norma)
6.71 Phantom
6.5mm-06 A-Square
6.5mm Remington Magnum
264 Hawk
6.5mm Gibbs
264 Winchester Magnum
6.5mm STW
6.5mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
6.8mm Remington SPC
270 Winchester
270 Winchester Short Magnum
270 Gibbs
270 Ackley Magnum
270-338 Winchester Magnum
270 Weatherby Magnum
270 STW
7x33mm Sako
7mm TCU
7mm BR (Bench Rest)
7-30 Waters
7mm-08 Remington
7x57mm Rimmed
7x72 Rimmed
7x57mm Mauser (7mm Mauser)
7mm Shooting Times Easterner
284 Winchester
7x64mm Brenneke
280 Remington
280 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Shoulder
7mm Gibbs
275 H&H Magnum
7x61mm Sharpe & Hart (7x61mm Super)
7.21 Tomahawk
276 B-J Express
7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
7mm Winchester Short Magnum
7mm Remington Magnum
7mm Weatherby Magnum
7mm STW
288 Barnes Supreme
7mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
7.21 Firebird
7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
7mm Dakota
28-30 Stevens
300 Rook
300 Sherwood
307 Winchester
30 M1 Carbine
300 AAC Blackout (7.62x35mm)
30-30 Winchester
308 Marlin Express
300 Savage
30 TC
308 Winchester
30-40 Krag
7.62x53mm Rimmed
7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian
7.5x55mm Schmidt-Rubin (Swiss)
309 JDJ
30-06 Springfield
30 Gibbs
7.82 Patriot
300 Hoffman
300 Ruger Compact Magnum
300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
300 Winchester Short Magnum
30-338 Winchester Magnum
308 Norma Magnum
300 H&H Magnum
30 Newton
300 Caribou
300 ICL Grizzly
300 Winchester Magnum
308 B-J Express
308 Barnes Supreme
300 Weatherby Magnum
300 Gonzo II
300 Dakota
300 Remington Ultra Magnum
7.82 Warbird
30 Super Flanged
30-378 Weatherby Magnum
300 Pegasus
300 Norma Magnum
7.62x39mm Russian
32-20 WCF
303 British
7.7x58mm (Japanese)
7.65mm Argentine Mauser
310 Cadet
8x48mm Rimmed Sauer
8.15x46mm Rimmed (318 Diameter)
8x58mm Rimmed Sauer (318 Diameter)
8x58mm Rimmed
32 Winchester Self-Loading
32-40 WCF
32 Remington
32 Winchester Special
32 Ideal
8x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
8x57mm Mauser (8mm Mauser)
8x57mm JRS Rimmed Mauser
8x60mm Rimmed S Mauser
8mm-06 Springfield
8x64mm Brenneke
8mm-06 Springfield Ackley Improved
320 Hawk
325 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM)
8mm Remington Magnum
8x56mm Rimmed Hungarian Mannlicher
318 Westley Richards
333 B-J Express
333 Flanged Nitro Express
333 Jeffery Rimless
334 OKH
333 Barnes Supreme
335 OTTR
338 Spectre
338 IHMSA
338 Marlin Express
338 Federal
33 WCF
340 Gibbs
338-06 JDJ
338-06 A-Square
338-06 A-Square Ackley Improved
338 Hawk
338 Scovill
8.59 Galaxy
338 Ruger Compact Magnum
338 Winchester Magnum
338 Norma Magnum
338 A-Square
338 Baker
338-404 Express
340 Weatherby Magnum
330 Dakota
338 Remington Ultra Magnum
8.59 Titan
338 Lapua Magnum
338-378 Weatherby Magnum
348 Winchester
35 Winchester
35 Winchester Self-Loading
351 Winchester Self-Loading
9x57mm Mauser (9mm Mauser)
360 Nitro Express
400-350 Nitro Express (350 Rigby)
350 Rigby
35 Remington
356 Winchester
358 Winchester
358 JDJ
35 Gibbs
35 Whelen
35-06 JDJ
350 Remington Magnum
358 Hawk
358 Scovill
358 Norma Magnum
358 B-J Express
35 Newton
358 Shooting Times Alaskan
350 G&H Magnum
358 Yukon
358 Barnes Supreme
9.3x57mm Mauser
9.3x62mm Mauser
9.3x82mm Rimmed
9.3x74mm Rimmed
9.3 Sisk, 9.3 Barnes-Sisk
366 DGW
400-360
400-375 Nitro Express
375 Winchester
9.5x47mm Rimmed
38-56 WCF
9.5x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (375 Nitro Express Rimless) (9.5mm Mannlicher-Sch
375-284 Winchester
375 Hawk-Scovill
375 Whelen Improved
375 ICL Kodiak
375 Epstein Magnum
375 H&H Magnum
375 H&H Magnum Ackley Improved
375 Flanged (Rimmed)
375 Ruger
375 Weatherby Magnum
375 Barnes Supreme
375 JRS Magnum
375 Dakota
375 Remington Ultra Magnum
375 A-Square
378 Weatherby Magnum
375 Chey-Tac
376 Steyr
38-55 WCF
38-72 WCF
375 Rimless
400 Nitro Express
395 Tatanka
38-40 WCF
40-60 Marlin
40-70 Sharps
40 Newton
10.15x61mm Jarmann
400 Hoffman
40-90 Sharps
400 Whelen Basic
400 H&H Magnum
450-400 Nitro Express
405 Basic
401 Winchester Self-Loading
40-65 WCF
40-72 WCF
40-82 WCF
408 Chey-Tac
400 A-Square (400 Pondoro)
411 Hawk Basic
404 Barnes Supreme
405 Clemens
405 Winchester
416 Ruger
416 Taylor
416 Remington Magnum
416 Accurate Reloading
416 Barnes Supreme
10.57 Meteor
416 Hoffman
416 Weatherby Magnum
416 Rigby
425 Fossdal
404 Jeffery
10.75x65mm Rimmed
10.75x68mm Mauser
44-40 WCF
444 Marlin
425 Express
43 Mauser/Spanish/Egyptian (11x60mm Rimmed Mauser, 11.15x60mm Rimmed Mauser)
11.2x72mm Schuler
43 Werndl
451 Detonics
500-450
45-100 WCF
45-110 Sharps
45-120 Sharps
45 Basic
450 Bushmaster
45-75 Winchester
577-450 Martini Henry
43 Beaumont
45-90 WCF
458 Socom
45-70 Government
458 Denali
450 Marlin
458 Acc Rel (Accurate Reloading)
458 Winchester Magnum
458 Lott
450 Alaskan
450 B-J Express
458 MCW
450 Watts Magnum
450 Barnes Supreme
450 Assegai
450 Dakota
460 Short A-Square
450 Number 2 Nitro Express 3-1/2"
450 Magnum Express
450 Nitro Express
460 Weatherby Magnum
465 H&H Magnum
500-465 Nitro Express
461 Gibbs
470 Capstick
470 Mbogo
476 Nitro Express
475 Nitro Express
470 Accurate Reloading
470 Nitro Express
475 Number 2 Nitro Express
50 Beowulf
500 Accurate Reloading
500 Mbogo
577-500 Nitro Express
Belted Magnum Basic
505 Empire
505 Barnes Supreme
505 Gibbs Magnum
50 Alaskan
50-90 Sharps
500 Nitro Express
500 A-Square Magnum
500 Jeffery
495 A-Square
50 BMG
56-50 Spencer
50-110 Winchester
50-70 Government
50-95 Winchester
12.7x44mm Rimmed Danish
577 Snyder
585 Nyati
577 Nitro Express
600 Nitro Express

(Whew!) Now the crazy part is I can think of a BUNCH of cartridges that aren't on that list!

Now let's talk about PISTOL cartridges... naah, never mind.

 

[MErl]

Well there is more than just bullet diameter and case volume to be concerned about (raw power). New classes of cartridges are developed for specific guns (rimmed, fit in AR mag, etc) or to fit in traditional action and sizes. Add in different parent case choices in different parts of the world you get regional differences which have overlap when merged together. Then add in laws banning military of evil calibers for another set of slight variations.

That said there is alot of overlap even within limited categories. There is not that much difference between 5.56 and 6mmX45

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm not knocking variety, I just think it's too much. Personally, I'll never own a rifle in anything besides 223 or 308. IMO, those or their brass/bullets will be around long after I'm gone.

I think it's ironic that you complain about redundancy in your opening post and then claim one of the two calibers you would own is nuttin' but a modern clone of the infamous 30-06. The .308 is a prime example of where someone took a successful caliber and made it into something more desirable to THEM. In this case, a matter of making a short action cartridge outta a long action cartridge, leaving caliber and ballistics for all practical purposes, identical.

If all one did was hunt members of the deer family and large varmints, your two calibers would be sufficient. Most folks probably could get thru life with only two rifle calibers....but why? Why use a centerfire for small game when a rimfire will work much better at a much lower cost. Lotta different brass out there that's been around a lot longer than .223 and .308. Those calibers will still be with us as long as those two are. Doubt if any of us will live to see their demise. Everyone has their favorite calibers....just some have a few more favorites than others and some have different priorities. Me, I personally like the idea that I have such a broad selection to make my choices from.

 

[HoosierQ]

So I was reading this article and got to thinking. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/robert-farago/6-5-grendel-new-300-blackout/

Maybe if we didn't make about 5000 different cartridges, of which about 4990 overlap, we wouldn't have ammo shortages. I just don't understand it. Why so many when many are almost identical? :banghead:

This might be true if it were not for probably about 90% of all the ammunition made (measured by round count) is probably spread across maybe a dozen or so calibers (22lr, 9mm, .223, .308, 30-06, .45acp, 7.62x39...maybe .40 S&W, 30-30, maybe .243, etc)

 

[Dentite]

Too many cartridges? That's like saying too many fast cars or too many beautiful women. Buy what you like and don't care about what others buy. The market will work itself out on overly redundant cartridges. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[SP2000]

I agree with you all, I just never caught on that a lot of it has to do with selling guns. New cartridge = new gun.
And when I mentioned 308 instead of 30-06, that was just because 308 is used by the military so I assume it would be more plentiful.
And even if you hunted every animal on the continent, you wouldn't need more than 7-10 different cartridges.

 

[jmr40]

And even if you hunted every animal on the continent, you wouldn't need more than 7-10 different cartridges.

I could hunt everything on the planet with 2-3. Everything in North America with 1-2.

The primary reason we have so many is nostalgia. Hunters and shooters are a nostalgic bunch and too many hold onto old obsolete chamberings just because, even though newer and better are available.

Nothing really wrong with that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with trying to make newer and better. When we as a civilization stop progressing, we are dying. Gun companies that stop coming out with new and innovative products and chamberings are soon to be dead and out of business.