Too Much/Too Little for Whitetail?

[longrifleman]

You'll never regret the Marlin, in either .30-30 or .35 Rem. If I was forced to only use one rifle, that would be it. Shots around here are probably a little longer than what you describe, but I've only had to pass up a couple over the years when carrying my Marlin.

Art's point about a scope is very much worth considering. I have an older Weaver K-3 on mine and I think the set-up is about ideal for low light, quick shots. Still adequate out to the effective range of the .30-30.

just put a ghost ring sight on that m48 and bang away

I have a Mojo sight on a Turk Mauser and wouldn't be afraid to take it hunting at all. I fact, I told my wife I put that sight on so I could take Achmed out in nasty weather and not damage my "good" rifles. Do you guys think she believed me?

 

[H&Hhunter]

All of the rounds mentioned are fantastic deer rounds. Me likes a sectional density of about 270 or 300 at a velocity of <2700 FPS on deer. Better sectional density at moderate velocity with well made bullets equals good penetration and minimal meat damage.

The .30-30 or the .35Rem are fantastic deer rounds for majority of the ranges the average hunter will be shooting deer. I really don't like what a big mag with non super tough bullets does to a deer. MUSH.

However take one of those big mags like a .300 Weatherby and shoot a super tough bullet like a Barnes and it greatly reduces the mush factor. But it's still not the best choice in my opinion.

I've never killed a deer with a .45-70 but I do have a real nice Marlin 1895 CB sitting in the safe who deserves a chance. Maybe this year will be it.

Good luck this season. May Diana bless you with fair winds, good light and a steady hand.

 

[KMBRTAC45]

I lived in a little town called Garden(midway between Escanaba & Manistique). I've been hunting with a Marlin 336 30-30 for 20years and taken a deer every time. My stepdad taught my brother & I to shoot neck shots. If you hit a deer at 75yrds in the neck they go DOWN on the spot. I have NEVER had to track my deer . I usually aim about 1/4 of the way up the neck(from the shoulder), its not too small of a target from that range.

 

[H&Hhunter]

If you hit a deer at 75yrds in the neck they go DOWN on the spot. I have NEVER had to track my deer . I

And if you miss the spine you will have no blood trail to follow and deer will suffer a miserable slow death.

Neck shots are to risky for me.

I can't tell you how many "neck & head shot" experts I've seen blow that shot and wound to a non recovery over the years.

 

[Art Eatman]

On neck shots:

"A man's gotta know his limitations."

, Art

 

[BIGJACK]

Man the 30-30 would probaly be ok but I would reccomend the 30.06.
In my opinion( I will duck after saying this), the magnums are a waste of money. You are shooting deer not dam moose, elk or grizzlies and there really is not a significant difference between them and the 06 (10-15%). A real consideration for you is the availability and cost of ammo too. Just about anyplace that sells any kind of sporting goods will also have 30.30 and 30.06 ammo, don;t look for that with the mags.
Good luck.

 

[drw2514]

So I went to the range the other day with a guy I work with who apparently owns quite a few guns. I never knew this, so it was quite a pleasant surprise. Anyway, he has both a .30-30 Winchester 1894 and a Marlin 1895 guide gun in .45-70. Long story short, I'm now considering the .45-70...man, does that thing pack a wallop. A .45-70 would compliment the Ruger new vaquero .45LC I've had my eye on at the gun shop better than a .30-30 in my opinion (not that that really matters, but it's still be cool), and I figure a 500 grain slug traveling at around 1,500 fps is more than enough for any kind of game on the continent if not the entire world.

 

[Jimmy Newman]

.45-70 killed many, many, many American Bison. So yeah, it'll definately work for anything in north America .

I'm not sure I'd want to shoot it at cape buffalo or hippos or elephants (to name a few), but then again those don't live here!

 

[swampdog]

Since you're dead set on a lever action, get the best of both worlds with your sighting system. My suggestion would be a 1x4 scope in weaver quick release mounts. When I want to use iron sights, I have a ghost ring sight that mounts to the weaver base. I usually use the ghost ring unless I plan on sitting in a tree until dark. You get what you pay for with scopes and mounts, btw.

http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html

I currently have a .35 marlin. I've had several 30/30's in the past. They all killed deer. I've been really impressed with the "knockdown" power of the .35. I've shot 1/2 a dozen deer and a black bear with mine.
I just can't "justify" a 45/70 purchase for use around here. Maybe one day I'll get one for fun.

My favorite deer rifle is a .308 bolt action carbine, btw. It usually wears a 2x7.

Good Luck & Have Fun!

 

[Nhsport]

If you want something handy to carry and lots of fun,get a 30-30,I like them with a peep sight.Unless you spend a bunch the scope will not be much better than the peep.
If you feel the need for bolt gun power in the future use the yugo. If you can see the sights and yours has an ok trigger it will fit the bill.
Keep in mind the whole thing about bolt guns being more accurate than lever guns doesn't really mean squat with the average hunter blasting at your average deer at 100 yds. If you are out west somewhere laying down with your gun resting on a pack aiming at an antelope 300yds away it would be a factor but at 100ds a decent lever gun will shoot 2 or 2 1/2" and a great bolt gun will shoot 1 or 1 1/2" (we aren't on sandbags off a solid bench here!). The deer isn't going to know the difference.
Truthfully the biggest factor is if you take the time to grab up whatever gun and a couple of boxes of ammo and do some practise. Ask the guy takeing you and try to find how most the shots might occur. Standing,sitting in a stand ,shooting uphill or down,whatever!. Get yourself a chart that shows the location of the vitals of a deer and consider where you would have to aim at different angles. Good luck and good eating!

 

[pete f]

If you like a lever action, then buy a 3030 or 32 special or a 35 rem, I like them a lot.
Another avenue which will gain instant deer stand cred is a Savage 99 in 250 or 300 savage, the 243's and 308's are ok but not as smooth as the earlier 250 and 300's

Magnums are completely unnecessary for woods hunting unless the woods you are in have bears with humps on the back.

If you are willing to try something else, any modern bolt in a caliber from 243 to 308 would be fine. I have a personal affinity for some of the older chamberings, like 250 Savage, 257 roberts, 6.5 X55 swede, 7X57, 7-30 waters (IN A LEVER)and 30-40's. Good newer rounds like the 260 rem, the 7-08 and the 6.5x284 have a lot more reach, but will not beat up getting it.

As for Killing them too dead. Maybe we should not shoot them in a bad place but often we get the shot we are offered. Deer shot with mild loads from mild chamberings USUALLY die just as fast, and USUALLY leave more meat that is edible than hotter rounds. Especially in the woods where a 20 yard shot is not unheard off, ( my sons last two deer were at 25 and 28 yards respectively) using a even a 270 on a deer at 20 yards is going to waste far more meat than a 3030 or 35 rem. A 7 mag or 300 mag at 20 yards is going to turn an awful lot of meat bloodshot. Why put up with all the racket, recoil, and cost of a Magnum when you do not need it. If he was hunting the edges of clear cuts or powerlines or sloughs where a 350 yard shot MIGHT occur, ok then a magnum might make some sense. Even then the argument could be made there for a 6.5x 284 or a 270 or a 280. I think that a properly chosen .260 rem or 7-08 load will do it just fine too.

If you have antler regs to deal with, (only bucks, only bucks over 4 inches, only 8 pointers, etc) then adding a scope can make the job easier, If not and you can practice enough to feel confident, then a peep sight will do just fine, I have a rifle that is a match for my EDC hunting rifle except it has a lyman reciever sight on it as my snowy day gun. Twice with heavy snow falling I have missed deer, once cuz i could not see the deer thru an eyepiece that was full of snow, and the second as I flipped open the lense caps the deer heard, saw, felt something and took off.

Have fun, Ask around, someone might have a usuable gun laying around that you can try out for your first year. Or buy one, and next year or sometime decide you want to try something else, (I keep buying deer rifles even though the only rifle i have carried in 11 years is my 99 in 300.)

 

['Card]

I'm a .30-06 guy, but you'll never hear me say anything negative about the .30-30. Especially for whitetail, and especially at less than 100 yards.

Don't downplay the importance of a good powerful scope, though - and remember that the scope isn't just for shooting. In thick cover and dense terrain, your scope can be invaluable for picking out which one of those three deer that just came down the ridge is the one with the antlers on it. Most new hunters don't realize how difficult that can be, because in pictures, the antlers look pretty obvious, right?

I prefer a 3x9 variable-power scope with a 50mm objective lens for deer hunting. Of all the deer I've killed, most I probably could have taken with iron sights, but the scope has been invaluable for spotting purposes.

 

[Scottso]

All my buddies went 30/30. and Ive seen lost deer too often My choice is .35 Rem. Never lost one yet. And meat lost was minimal. thats as important as dropping the dear, cause you can't eat Antlers lol.

 

[454c]

Tell your buddies to practice more.

 

[Clipper]

You've already got a good gun with the 8mm...

...If you're gonna buy a 30/30 or .35Rem, a distinct step down ballistically, it's because you simply have to buy a new rifle, and the 'Deer gun' bit is your excuse. That's OK too, just say it like it is. We understand.

 

[Richard.Howe]

Once you start looking at numbers, you're hosed. Gosh, a .30-30 would work, but a .308 would be a lot better. Ohhh, ooooh, oooh, a .30-06 has a fuzz more power than the .308 with heavy loads. But just a little more from a .300 winnie...and oh wow, look a that SAUM.

Just stick with the old 1000 ft-lbs at POI rule, and you're more than adequate. These guys who shoot 200-lb deer with 300 Win Mags...either they don't own the right gun, or they do and they're masochists...IMHO.

Rich

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

The one gun hunter owns a 30-06.

There are a lot of two gun hunters that also own a 30-30.

Your 8x57 is pretty much an ought six. If you're comfortable with it, then use it.

I have several rifles. The one in my gun safe with the most deer kills by me is a Marlin 336 in 30-30.

For Whitetail it should be great. In the hands of the skilled shooter, the Microgroove barrel of the Marlin is more accurate than you might think. I can hit a 10" steel plate at 200m 90% of the time with mine. With open sights. Put a peep on one and you'll do even better. As for strength of the 30-30, there's more than enough power at the ranges you present.

I'll second the notion of lever gun in 45-70, or the 444Marlin. Even one in 44mag. Or 45LongColt. Plenty stong for Whitetail with a neck or vitals shot.

If centerfire is legal where you plan to hunt, then you've already got a good deer rifle in the 8x57. So buy yourself a magnum pistol and practice for next year. The guns with the second most deer kills in my safe, are a couple of Ruger 44mags. Both with open sights.

-Steve

 

[KIMBER45TLE]

My Old Pappy

My Old Pappy killed many a deer in his 85 years using nothing more than a Winchester Model 94 in 30 30. I never had to tract one for him just help him drag them out. Longest shot I ever saw him take on deer was around 200 yards. Deer went down in his tracks.

The really high velocity 30 calibers are great rifles too as would be your 8mm. The thing I've seen with the high velocity rounds is a lot of hemorige around the entry and exit wound. A shot in the rib cage just behind the front shoulder is a good one to make with any fire arm and will do the trick. One has to know though that the heart of a deer is actually lower in the chest cavity but hitting just a little high takes out main arteries and veins. Also hitting the shoulder bone will break him/her down not to mention the fact that bone fragments are sent flying around inside the body cavity, slicing, and cutting vital organs.

If this is your first year to hunt, and a 30 30 is what you want, the Marlin 336 is hard to beat. It is accurate, mild recoil and less expensive. I'd also hang on to the 8mm because if you become addicted to hunting like so many of us have, sooner or later you'll be hunting larger type game given the opportunity and the 8mm will put you in shape to do just that.

You can see some of the deer I've taken with my Kimber Custom TLE II in another thread on this forum.

No matter what you do, practice at the range. Get comfortable with which ever rifle you choose. Try shooting 150 grainers all the way up to 180 grain bullets. Find the one that shoots the best and go have at it. When you can hit a grapefruit, soft ball, or hard ball at 100 yards and ranges under that, then you are ready for your first white tail.

 

[uk roe hunter]

it's all about the bullett and the load

Hi guys,
I hunt in the uk and my bread and butter is the roe deer. I use a .30-06 bolt action rifle, i load my own rounds using 150gr speer spitzer. this goes at about 2850 fps. it is really accurate and kills really well. there is a moderate amount of meat damage - but i can live with that becuase DEAD IS DEAD. I use a bushnell trophy scope on the top which gives me good low light performance.

The .3030 round is a tried and tested game getter as are most of the classics. but i am not sure about the limitted velocity. in fact it is not legal in the uk.

The .308 is a good round and could replicate the performance i get with the 150s but cant handle the heavier bullets so well. The .30-06 is my favourite! It allows a lot of versatility in load, power and velocity.

steve

 

[Art Eatman]

Hey, uk roe hunter, welcome to THR!

Lots of us '06 afficianados here.

Some folks grump a bit at my penchant for neck shots, but they surely don't hurt much meat...

, Art

 

[uk roe hunter]

neck shots

Hi art,
i get your point about knowing your limitations. It is dead right. i normally go for chest shots, 1 third up, just behind the line of the front leg from broadside. i will consider neck shots but normally only if the animal is very still or in longish vegatation.

Here in the UK most of the really experinced hunters use calibres of .270 plus but it has been fashionable to use a .243 i have one coming for muntjac only. but i would not use it on roe or anything bigger. I like stuff dead and not spending half the day looking for it.

steve

 

[Art Eatman]

I generally try to avoid an angled shot. Neck or cross-body as you described.

I figure the .243 is fine for deer that dress out no more than around 120 pounds or so. I tend to limit the range, though.

Here in my wide-open desert country, mule deer are rather sparse, at best. Hard to find a decent buck in less than around a thousand or more acres per each. We only have a total of sixteen days, so one's only shot might be out at 400 yards or more. And, it helps to be pretty good on a running target...

I've used the Sierra bullets for some time. I had a 150-grain SPBT blow up in a mule deer's neck, but it was at no more than some 30 yards. The Sierra folks said I was pushing that bullet too fast for close-range hits (3,000 ft/sec, maybe 3,100). Once out around 100 yards or more, somewhat slowed down, no problem. I wouldn't have had the problem with a flat-base, they said. But, given the possible long shots I might need to take, I've stayed with the boat-tail.

, Art

 

[fordman650]

i started out with a shotgun back east but after moving west went with a 30 30 then traded it for an o6 .here in southwest oregon you can have a 300 yd shot or a 30 yd shot on a black tail going to keep the 06 and get another
30 30 sure a lot lighter to tote around and does a good job,just won't take any 300 yd shots ,thats what is nice about here you can pick your area

 

[itgoesboom]

here in southwest oregon you can have a 300 yd shot or a 30 yd shot on a black tail going to keep the 06....

Ain't that the truth.

I just started hunting last year, here in Oregon and the first day I went hunting, my hunting partner/mentor brought me into areas where a shot could be as close as 20 yards, or as far as 350 yards or more. A couple of the hunts since then have been even more extreme.

Versatility is the name of the game out here, and I ended up with the same choice as you. .30-06 for everything.

I must say though, after my second hunt, and watching my friends son take a cow elk at a little over 200 yards with a .243 , I am a little less concerned about caliber choices.

I.G.B.

 

[uk roe hunter]

seasons

how come you guys only get 16 days a year hunting season, that is awful! i can hunt roe bucks from 1st april-31st october, does between 1st movember 28th feb.

steve