Reloadron
Contributing Member
That would be my thinking. I am 68 and many lifetime friends are still with us. some should have guns and some not so much.
Ron
Too old to be armed?
- Thread starter Mn Fats
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Ron
Labguy47
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Mn as a veteran I’m sorry for your loss. I also know the rules at VA care facilities and as government entities there is absolutely no weapon, or alcohol allowed.
Now I also know that due to some vets sensitivity due to TBI your grandparent was in violation of noise ordanances in such a facility. Especially if he was in a multi-patient room. He should have been using a headset. It is the families responsibility to provide that.
I’m not judging anyone just stating the facts, as far as VA facilities are concerned.
Now I also know that due to some vets sensitivity due to TBI your grandparent was in violation of noise ordanances in such a facility. Especially if he was in a multi-patient room. He should have been using a headset. It is the families responsibility to provide that.
I’m not judging anyone just stating the facts, as far as VA facilities are concerned.
shooter1niner
Member
Sorry for your loss. Sad state of affairs when an incident like this happens. If the grandparent was in violation of noise ordinances the staff should have done something about it before it got to this point.
Wisco
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A gun in a nursing home is almost never allowed and for some very good reasons I won’t get into.
My sympathies for your uncle. He deserved better.
I’ve done some work with long term care facilities, specifically veterans homes, and you’re not typically dealing with “responsible” people - they’re either physically or mentally debilitated. The 60-something year old who killed the 96 year was likely not a mentally competent person if he was in a home at 60 years old. The 96 year old was obviously not physically independent. Both should have been protected and contained.
The home IS responsible. Or the HOME is responsible. Take your pick.
Something in the protocols failed and it will be swept under the rug if no one outside pursues it.
Is the home state or federal or private? If it’s state or federal, and you care about your great uncle, get in touch with your state or federal representatives and file a complaint. It WILL be acknowdged and followed up on to some degree. Our veterans deserve better than what they get from these facilities.
My sympathies for your uncle. He deserved better.
I’ve done some work with long term care facilities, specifically veterans homes, and you’re not typically dealing with “responsible” people - they’re either physically or mentally debilitated. The 60-something year old who killed the 96 year was likely not a mentally competent person if he was in a home at 60 years old. The 96 year old was obviously not physically independent. Both should have been protected and contained.
The home IS responsible. Or the HOME is responsible. Take your pick.
Something in the protocols failed and it will be swept under the rug if no one outside pursues it.
Is the home state or federal or private? If it’s state or federal, and you care about your great uncle, get in touch with your state or federal representatives and file a complaint. It WILL be acknowdged and followed up on to some degree. Our veterans deserve better than what they get from these facilities.
JTHunter
Member
Minnesota - my condolences on your loss. This was so unnecessary.
Have any of us seen staff in a nursing home diligent enough to have prevented this tragedy? Unlikely.
As someone who recently finished nursing school (take my N-Clex in 2 days) and did close to 90 clinicals at 5 different nursing homes and the VA (amongst other facilities) I can honestly say that there are some great CNA’s, LPN’s, and RN’s at these places. But there are just as many that are only there to get a paycheck.
The VA had great people. But they are SEVERELY understaffed. There’s only so much you can do without staff members and with time constraints. It’s not fair and our veterans deserve better. And even if the staff reports something, there’s no guarantee that administration will do anything about it. And if you want to keep your job and be able to continue to care for these people, you don’t buck administrators. It’s a catch 22 because we’re supposed to be patient advocates. But you can’t be an advocate or care for these residents that you truly come to care about and develop relationships with, when you’re unemployed.
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Not speaking about anything specific, just in general:
I agree Its not a question of age in years, but their mental acuity and also physical ability, vision etc.
The truth is, at a certain point the elderly must rely on their loved ones or their caretakers for protection.
I agree Its not a question of age in years, but their mental acuity and also physical ability, vision etc.
The truth is, at a certain point the elderly must rely on their loved ones or their caretakers for protection.
Agreed, and this isn't about just guns. There's a point where driving, traveling alone, living alone and all sorts of other things can no longer be done independently and it can't always be up to the individual because often that individual lacks the capacity to make those kinds of decisions. Sometimes it's about protecting others (guns, driving) and sometimes it's about protecting the individual (getting fleeced financially). Unfortunately a lot of times this stuff is resolved with involuntary mechanisms such as court ordered guardianships. Not perfect but necessary.
SGW Gunsmith
Member
I just can't imagine ever being so dang old that I'm unable to pull a 3-pound trigger, but I just hope some "tough" gives me enough time to draw before I start hearin' harp music. The main reason that I will never join AARP is because of their asinine belief in gun control, ownership and registration. Everytime they send me a mailing or an envelope with an AARP membership card in it, I return it with an application for the NRA. Them dummies keep sending me applications and I send it back with another NRA application.
Garandimal
member
GR
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I don't think the issue is as much about having the strength to pull a 3 Lb trigger as much as knowing what you are doing when you pull that trigger. My mom died at age 92 of an aortic aneurysm, she simply went to sleep and died, taking with her all of her faculties and being sharp right till her dying day. I have friends in their late 60s to early 70s with the beginnings of dementia. I would not want to see any of them with a gun. My friend Willie simply forgot and 5 min from his own driveway has no clue where he is let alone how to drive his truck. Willie is done driving and his few guns are no longer in his possession. I doubt you would have wanted Willie around you with a loaded gun, Willie like me is 68. The difference is I still know who I am, and how to drive my truck as well as knowing how and when I should use a gun.
Yes, The AARP is anti-gun and my wife argues with them all the time in their forums. I will tell you something though. My NRA Life Membership card is no help with my supplemental health insurance and that health insurance supplement is pretty darn important once you start Medicare. So while I am not a supporter of AARP convictions when it comes to gun control their membership beats the hell out of my NRA membership when it comes to a real good supplemental health insurance plan.
jmorris
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This is the saddest part to me. I’m not sure how you raise your children to do the right thing, I’m not sure there is a “do this and you get this” outcome.
It’s been many decades but I remember like it was yesterday, when my Grandfather and I were walking down at the farm and he said “Someday this will be yours...” I told him, with a choking feeling even back then and a tearing up all these years later typing now “Well, if it’s just the same how about you keep it and I’ll just come down here with you.
Very sorry for your loss.
Zaydok Allen
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Dementia and other degenerative mental disorders scare me more than anything about old age.
The day my grandfather had to go into semi assisted living was terrible for him but at least he was able to live alone in an apartment. I managed to smuggle in my S&W 460 magnum to show him. The look on his face was hilarious. All he said was, and I apologize if anyone finds this offensive, "Holy Christ...... Why so big?" I just laughed.
This thread stirs up memories and I'm really sorry the perpetrator will not be prosecuted. That isn't right.
The day my grandfather had to go into semi assisted living was terrible for him but at least he was able to live alone in an apartment. I managed to smuggle in my S&W 460 magnum to show him. The look on his face was hilarious. All he said was, and I apologize if anyone finds this offensive, "Holy Christ...... Why so big?" I just laughed.
This thread stirs up memories and I'm really sorry the perpetrator will not be prosecuted. That isn't right.
Sorry to hear about your great uncle.
As to your question, I think it is possible. When, on account of mental or physical deterioration (or a combination of both) attributable to the aging process, one is no longer able to handle a firearm without being an immediate danger to themselves or others, it is time to set the guns down.
This what I did for a while in the mid-2000's when my neurological problems got so bad that I no longer trusted myself to be able to remember from one minute to the next whether the thing was loaded.
My father, age 94, stopped handling guns in July. He believed himself to be more of a danger to himself and others than his target, so he stopped. He stopped driving in October because he no longer felt he could do so safely.
tactikel
Member
Age means little, cognitive ability is paramount. Weapons are never allowed in hospitals, rehab, and extended facilities, for good reason. A PSTD patient mistaking a LPN coming at night to take vital signs for an NVA could be tragic. My 90 year old great uncle can out shoot me, out golf me, and beat me at tennis. My 39 year old nephew can't be trusted back my car down of the driveway.
Trey Veston
Member
https://amac.us/amac-alternative-aarp/
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AMAC supports the Constitution of the United States of America and our Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment. Exercising the right to keep and bear arms demands the utmost responsibility, but we believe the Second Amendment guarantees our inalienable right to keep and bear arms. We urge all gun owners and users to be safe and responsible. Of course, firearms should only be obtained and used legally. We believe that all gun owners and users should attend courses led by certified instructors to learn the safe and proper use of firearms.
Beach Bum
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JTHunter
Member
I whole-heartedly agree with you about the the quality of some personnel as well as the understaffing and that is part of the problem. Those that are caring and diligent are both over-worked and underpaid because they "over-perform" because too many "under-perform". That "picking up the slack" by the good ones has a tendency to lead to burnout and many leave the field. That leaves the "wage-earners" that are mainly there for the check.
Charlie Martinez
Member
Charlie Martinez
Member
30 years younger makes the ******* 66. That is not old enough to be so senile as to not know to not get into a fight with a 96 year old man. I'm 67 & would like to have a go with this son of a bitch.
Normally I’d agree with you. But you have to look at this from every angle. I’m not defending his actions. He was wrong and a hero is dead because of it. But at 66 years old there’s a reason he was put in a veterans home at that age (or many years before). And none of them are because he was in perfect physical and or mental health. We don’t know what he experienced or was exposed to in-country. PTSD, Agent Orange, a TBI, Stress induced psychosis, are only a few possibilities. My only hope is this man can get the help and attentiveness he needs to keep others from having another terrible tragedy at his hands.
As I said before, this really does break my heart. And I’m not just saying that. I have a huge soft spot in my heart for veterans. Especially those from WWII.
I'm sorry for your loss. You're uncle sounds like a magnificent guy and it's unfortunate that your son didn't get a chance to hear his stories. We'll never see their kind again.
I'm not sure a veterans home or other assisted living facility is the best place for firearms for a lot of reasons. Is the person on any mind altering medications? Can the firearm be safely secured so no one else has access to it? Could it be stolen by staff? How do you even fire a weapon in a place like that without injuring bystanders? I think it's reasonable for the facility to prohibit patients/residents from possessing firearms, however, it then falls on them to ensure their safety. If they fail to do so then the liability should be on them.
I'm not sure a veterans home or other assisted living facility is the best place for firearms for a lot of reasons. Is the person on any mind altering medications? Can the firearm be safely secured so no one else has access to it? Could it be stolen by staff? How do you even fire a weapon in a place like that without injuring bystanders? I think it's reasonable for the facility to prohibit patients/residents from possessing firearms, however, it then falls on them to ensure their safety. If they fail to do so then the liability should be on them.
stonebuster
Member
Sorry to hear about your uncle's tragic death. So few vets of the that generation are still with us and for him to end his life that way is sad. We recently had a similar case locally in an assisted living facility where a vet diagnosed with PTS strangled an elderly woman to death in the facility. Someone in the facility should have been paying more attention. As to the question, determination as to a person's right to be armed has to be on an individual basis and not strictly age. Dementia can strike some folks before old age and some are very sharp minded in their nineties. I also used to see a small framed 92 year old at the gym bench pressing free weights working with 150 lbs.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Man Fats, sorry for your loss. That’s a dang shame all the way around.
If1HitU
Member
Sorry for your loss.
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