Took Mother Shooting - Has hearing Loss Now

[holepuncher]

Hi All
First post here.

Several months ago I took my mother shooting - Outdoor range with just a sloping roof overhead. She is 70 and in good health. Gave her ear muffs to put on. Started with just 22LR with a Ruger Single Six, Ruger MKII and NAA Mini. No more than 50 rounds total. Then I let her try a handful of 22 magnums in the single six and NAA. She like that. Up to this point she had done most of the shooting. Next I fired 4 rounds .357 mag in a SW686. With one round left I asked her if she wanted to try it. She tried it and one was enough for her - recoil sent gun pointing straight up - said she did not like it. After that we left. She call me several hours later and said her ears feel blocked. I asked her if while she was shooting if she felt any pain or if it seemed to loud and she said everything was fine. I told her maybe it will go away. Well it never went away and after a week or so she went to an ear doctor and after doing a hearing test she had 50% hearing loss in one ear. This doctor said it might improve but not likely so she went to some kind of specialist who said its permanent. Now it about 4 months later and no improvement.

I feel like an idiot but what the heck did I do wrong?

 

[444]

I would be amazed if this had anything at all to do with shooting.

Over the years, I have fired all manner of firearms with no hearing protection at all including centerfire rifles (.338 Win Mags, .223s, .30-06s, .22-250s.....) as well as large bore handguns (.44 mags, .357s etc.). During my childhood I probably fired some kind of gun at least once a week with no hearing protection. I have fired and been near artillery, belt fed machineguns, four duce morters, and tank main guns when they were firing with less hearing protection than your mother was wearing. I have been shooting on a very regular basis for over 35 years. I have worked professionally as a firefighter and paramedic for almost 25 years in a very high call volume system with sirens in my ears many times a day.

I have my hearing checked annually as part of my madatory annual physical and have very good hearing with no hearing loss since I started working for this department 14 years ago.

With that in mind I have a real hard time believing that your mother fired a few rounds, one day, with hearing protection and had a hearing loss because of it. Common sense would seem to say that if she lost 50% of her hearing from firing 50 rounds of ammo one day that everyone on this board would have been deaf long ago.

 

[AJ Dual]

I think that the gun reports and the unnacustomed noises allowed her to "notice" her existing hearing loss.

It's like when you cook something stinky in your house, after a while, you get saturated, and you stop noticing the smell. Then when you go outside to get the mail and smell clear air, then go back in, the smell is back again, at least to your perceptions.

Hearing and vision work much the same way. I'm guessing that listening to the gunshots, even muffled by hearing protectors jarred her into actualy hearing what her ears tell her. Her brain was compensating and filtering out the loss in her day-to-day life, but her ears and hearing center was given a new perspective by the sound of gunfire.

Either that, or her hearing did go down hill, but it's a coincidence with the shooting.

 

[the naked prophet]

Having shot a lot, and having several ear infections in my life, I'm gonna guess it was an existing ear infection and the act of wearing the earmuffs loosened up something that spilled the infection into her ear. That's just a guess based on me having ear infections and wearing hearing protection.

 

[James T Thomas]

geriaudiology

This is conjecture on my part, but I wonder if, at seventy years of age, your mother had developed some "osteoporosis" in the small bones of her ear; just like it develops in the larger weight bearing bones?

I'm not a physician, are you? How could you know?

Then too, the "seniors" are much more prone to eustacian tube complications, inner ear infections, etc. Hopefully, her problem will be one of those, and will dissapate through the passage of time.

Congratulations to your mother and you. Haveing a mom at that age and as vital as she apparently is, is a blessing. Enjoy her and don't blame yourself.

 

[Hoploholic]

If the report of the firearms had damaged her hearing, she would most likely have ringing in her ears. I really don't think you caused any harm to come to your mother. I ain't no doc, but I also ain't never heard of anyone having damage done by firearm report with tennitus.

 

[das028]

First thing you did wrong is giving your 70 year old mother a .357 magnum to shoot.

 

[444]

"I wonder if, at seventy years of age, your mother had developed some "osteoporosis" in the small bones of her ear; just like it develops in the larger weight bearing bones?"

Very interesting thought.

 

[springmom]

moms can shoot .357s too

I doubt it was the shooting day, although you might check and see if there is a crack or some failure of the muffs. (We are talking muff-style ear protection, not real ear muffs, right?) Was her hair or glasses or something sitting between the muffs and her head, such that there wasn't really a seal around her ear?

Springmom

 

[HankB]

Springmom may be on to something - the only way she'd get hearing loss from shooting would be if the earmuffs weren't making a good seal. And then I'd expect she'd have exhibited symptoms like a ringing in her ears afterwards.

I try to get my mother (she's a spry 77 and mentally fit) out to the range from time to time, just so she's used to shooting her "home protection" gun . . . but she doesn't like regular muffs (they muss her hair), she doesn't like behind-the-head muffs (they don't seal well), she doesn't like earplugs (because . . . well, JUST because!) . . . one excuse after another.

 

[Sunray]

"...what the heck did I do wrong?..." Nothing. My ma was losing her hearing for years before she died, but refused to admit it. Chances are that mom's hearing was getting worse in the first place but she wouldn't admit it. In any case, while there is hearing loss from unprotected shooting, it doesn't appear overnight or in a few hours.

 

[HerrWolfe]

Don't be overly critical of yourself (if she indeed wore the muffs like you intended and if they are real muffs and not a toy). She might just more sensitive to hearing (no pun intended) due to the shooting noises, when in reality, she already had suffered hearing loss. So get her some real good muffs and take her back to the range with a full box of .357s, my all time favorite caliber....cause the blast actually makes my hair blow back, and I've so little left on top. Man, how I do love the blast of a .357. A .45 is OK, a .38 rather sick, but the .357 is to die for....ooops.

If hearing loss was actually caused by the gunfire, at least she was able to shoot a .357. I have heard that some people live their whole life and never get that pleasure.

 

[Lupinus]

at 70 hearing loss is common

I'd say either she just didn't happen to notice it before or that it is just lining up that her hearing is going at the time you jsut happened to take her to the range.

 

[hso]

First off, WELCOME to THR.

Now back to business.

It's possible that the muffs weren't making a good seal with her head and she got more exposure than anticipated, but it may not be related to the shooting at all.

Upon rare occasion spontaneous partial loss of hearing or sudden hearing loss can occur. Keep in mind this is very rare and it may be more than coincidence that her hearing loss occurred after the range trip.

http://www.bcm.edu/oto/grand/111893.html
http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/hearing/shl.htm


What were the muffs she was wearing and what was the NRR rating on them? Was she wearing glasses with ear pieces that might break the seal significantly of the muffs with the area around the ear?

 

[tellner]

The obvious thing is to ask your doctor for medical advice, not random gun hobbyists from tha Intrawebs.

 

[HankB]

But our advice is FREE . . . and I must say, worth every penny!

 

[Sylvan-Forge]

Some really good thinking in the above posts.

Esp. regarding osteoperosis.

I look at most (not all, mind you) doctors like this : If they can't make a pile of loot from surgery or prescription meds, you'll lilkely get very little actual help.

That said, I highly recommend 2nd and 3rd opinions from ear specialists.

Good deal of sound pressure generated from .357 Mag, even with muffs, could easily have shaken something loose.

Another possibility is deep impacted ear wax (most everyone has some to some degree) was dislodged and is now creating blockage.


Best of luck.

 

[bg]

Yea I make it a point to wear ear plugs and muffs anymore.
I want to be able to hear the kids call me an old geezer,
instead of guessin' what they're saying..

 

[bumm]

It's very hard to say what's going on here, but it's highly unlikely that one bout of shooting, with ear protection, caused permanent hearing loss for your mother. There's nothing magical about the sound of gunfire that makes it worse than other sudden, loud, noises. If the sound of gunfire under ear muffs would cause permanent damage, just about everybody would be deaf by now from one thing or another.
Have your mother see a specialist.
Marty

 

[CaCrusin]

I am 54. I've been shooting since I was eight and my hearing is very poor. I used hearing protection ALMOST all the time, at least with anything bigger than a .22. I think the most damage was from the OA-93 AR pistol with the 7.5 inch barrel. Even with plugs and muffs it hurt my ears to shoot it. I sold it for big bucks before the AWB and was glad to see it go. But I'd buy another if I could.

CaCrusin

 

[tackleberry]

WHAT????

oh sorry not wearing my glasses....been shooting darn near every weekend since i was a child...work in a very noisy automotive shop with all manners of air tools beating on the old ear drums and still today i have very good (great) hearing. I doubt this was the problem.

 

[holepuncher]

OK
The reason for my post was mainly to see if anyone has heard of such a thing happening NOT to seek medical advice from "random gun hobbyists from tha Intrawebs".

I'm baffled by it. My club has 250 members many of which are old timers. I have never noticed any of them wearing a hearing aid. I have searched the internet on the subject of guns and hearing loss and cannot find a single instance of someone suffering hearing damge from a a one time one hour shooting session unless they were shooting indoors with zero ear protection.

As far as the muffs I dont know the brand or ratings on the ones she was wearing but I always give them to my guests at the range. I do know they are not quite as effective as the ones I always wear but they do cut down the blast significantly and no one ever complained about them. I did have her put them on again after this event to see if there was any problem with the fit and her glasses and it seemed fine unless she had them on wrong that day.

My mother had her ears and hearing checked approx one year prior to this event and all was fine.

What gets me even more is that the doctor told her that he see's cases like this almost daily and to never go shooting again. He also told her to warn me that I should not shoot anymore as well. Anyone want to buy a SW 686?

 

[hso]

What gets me even more is that the doctor told her that he see's cases like this almost daily and to never go shooting again. He also told her to warn me that I should not shoot anymore as well.

:banghead:

Look at it from his perspective. Many people have never used hearing protection while shooting. Heck, I didn't until 20 years ago and I've got tinnitus in my right ear from being ignorant of the risks. Now I wear plugs and muffs to protect the hearing I've got left! He only sees people that have been damaged from shooting. Instead of understanding that there are ways to prevent the damage and that most people now use protection he'd avoid the problem altogether.

As to the oldtimers at the range, well, vanity plays a huge role with men refusing to get their hearing checked and wear hearing aids. Many of them also mistakenly think that just because it doesn't "sound" loud to them it isn't harmfull.

 

[tegemu]

Seems to me that you need to get her to an Ear Doc to get a definative answer to your concerns/questions. My ear Doc didn't suggest that I wear both ear plugs and ear muffs, he DIRECTED me to do it. He said that either one, by itself, didn't provide adequate protection and with some guns both are barely adequate and often inadequate.

 

[the naked prophet]

Kinda seems like the doctor is at least mildly anti-gun. Instead of recommending hearing protection (if he thinks you were using none) or more hearing protection (plugs AND muffs) he just tells you to stop shooting.

Did he look for other causes, like an infection? Or did he just assume that it was shooting and tell you to stop shooting? I'd personally see another doctor. The symptoms don't sound like hearing loss from shooting, they sound more like an ear infection (the pressure changes involved in putting on/taking off muffs with a good seal around the ear can force infection fluid into/out of the inner ear).