total AR idiot

[bedford]

I own quite a few firearms, revolvers, semi's, shotguns in 3 gauges, semi auto rifles, ok thesemi's are 22's, lever action, bolt and one pump but have never had an urge for an AR. Recently I've been jonesing to get my first one, but I want to be able to hunt with it, so it has to be an AR 10. While I'm sure the 6.8 will do anything a 308 will do, I really am a 30 cal fan, and being able to find surplus, factory ammo if I'm too lazy to reload is a plus. So many manufacturers, accessories etc I don't know where to start. I know Colt is supposedly coming out with their SP901, but that was supposed to already be a fact and it isn't. I like the idea of LMT's as the user can change the free floated barrel to a like COL cartride, ie, 243, 7mm 08, 338 Federal, but it's priced at $2500. I realize that it has definite upgrades so I wouldn't be looking to crank money into it right away to make it shoot better, but I'm hoping to get a lesser price. I know I'm alread going to put an optic of some kind on it. I really don't have a clue as to who makes a better rifle. For everyone that says Armalite is only so so, you read where they are great. Same as DPMS, bushmaster, the list goes on. I don't believe I'll be putting hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it before a good cleaning, so a direct impingement gun would be fine, but I like what I'm reading on the piston guns, but again, the price goes up from there. If Ruger made their mini 30 in 308, or maybe even 7mm 08 I'd go that route. Springfield's Socom looks good, but I'm really leaning towards the AR platform. I'm in my mid 50's, it's about time I came into this century. I posted a similar thread on Rugers forum hoping to get all the help I can. Who do you recommend as a good gun, good company, or who to definitely stay away from?

Thanks for all the help

 

[saddlerocker]

Whats the general price range?

Options are slightly limited under $1500.
$1500-$2000 seems to get you something decent in my opinion.

 

[bedford]

I hadn't set a ceiling on a price, but I'd like to stay under 2K. If I have to go higher, I will, as I've tried to skimp in the past, or most always wished I'd spent the extra.

thanks

 

[ugaarguy]

Bedford, welcome to THR. The DPMS LR-308 is actually a very good rifle, and seems like it's made a by a totally different company than their corner cutting AR-15 pattern rifles. LMT is a great option if you know for sure you're going to change barrels: Just remember to factor in the cost of an optic in a return to zero detachable mount for each bbl you add.

While I'm sure the 6.8 will do anything a 308 will do, I really am a 30 cal fan, and being able to find surplus, factory ammo if I'm too lazy to reload is a plus.

You won't find surplus ammo, but look at .300 AAC Blackout. It gives you slightly better than .30-30 ballistics in the much lighter & handier AR-15 platform. The bbl is the only part that differs from 5.56/.223 AR-15s. Ammo is already very reasonably priced as well.

 

[saddlerocker]

These would be my first choices...
Larue OBR 7.62 $3000 (Uses Pmags I think, which is a big plus)
Larue PredatAR $2500 (Also Uses PMags I think)
LMT MWS $2500 (Uses PMags)
Knights Armament SR-25 $4000 (Haha, I know, but its badass)
Novekse N6 (Very Expensive again)

Then you kind of have everything else, which I think are all pretty good, but each have their own up and downsides I guess.
RRA
DPMS
Bushmaster
Armalite

An M1A comes in at a nice price, although not the AR platform.

Sorry, I dont own one, so I cant really offer any good insight, but if it were me, I would do everything I could to save get the LMT or Larue PredatAR.
The PredatAR is lightweight and perfect for a hunting role

 

[Welding Rod]

If I was buying an AR just for hunting I would look at a 458 SOCOM. I would not choose it for defense or longer range, but for close hunting that would be the one for me... short, nice and light to carry, good punch, and not too expensive. Of course you may not want one unless you reload if you shoot much as the factory ammo is expensive.

Not an AR but something else to consider for hunting as long as you are OK with iron sights is a M1 Garand. You can get a nice one for under $1,000.

 

[C-grunt]

I have read that the DPMS LR-308 is supposed to be a good rifle.

 

[AK_Maine_iac]

Don't get me wrong i really like my Armalite AR10. Yes, it is well made. That is why the Canadian Military uses them. I have the 308 and 338 Federal upper so far.
They have one major draw back. The AR10's have very large hinge pins, so you can only use There uppers for the most part.

All of the other manufacturers are more mix and match friendly.

 

[mljdeckard]

Here's the thing. The Armalite pattern was launched during the AWB, and they made a few design decisions based on that. Partcularly, because there was a ban on new 'hi' cap magazines, they made it to work with plentiful surplus M-14 magazines. When the ban went away, this advantage went out the window. They have a diagonal cut at the corner where the receivers meet, which is proprietary to Armalite. They are compatible with few, if any other .308 designs. (If I recall correctly, Noveske uses the Armalite cut.)

The DPMS/KAC pattern on the other hand, is more universal, and has been picked up by the military as the M-110 SASS. This has made it much more accepted as universal and standard. And the thing that broke the tie for me, Magpul makes Pmags for it. I have built the lower, I plan on building a lightweight upper in .243 for coyotes and deer, a standard service-size .308, (maybe another M-4 style .308 rifle for competition,) and a very heavy upper in .260 Rem for longer ranges. Maybe a 7mm-08 eventually. All with the same lower, bolt face, and magazines. This is a lot easier with the DPMS pattern than it would be with the Armalite.

 

[kimura]

These would be my first choices...
Larue OBR 7.62 $3000 (Uses Pmags I think, which is a big plus)
Larue PredatAR $2500 (Also Uses PMags I think)
LMT MWS $2500 (Uses PMags)
Knights Armament SR-25 $4000 (Haha, I know, but its badass)
Novekse N6 (Very Expensive again)

Then you kind of have everything else, which I think are all pretty good, but each have their own up and downsides I guess.
RRA
DPMS
Bushmaster
Armalite

An M1A comes in at a nice price, although not the AR platform.

Sorry, I dont own one, so I cant really offer any good insight, but if it were me, I would do everything I could to save get the LMT or Larue PredatAR.
The PredatAR is lightweight and perfect for a hunting role

I think this is about right. Most everyone that runs a 7.62 AR runs one of the top brands. I think if you want a good dependable rifle, you're in the $3000.00 range. Costa has been working on a new rifle with Larue that's due out in January. I'm not sure what it is, though he said that it will be worth the wait. Hk was suppose to put out the MR762, but I don't have any idea if they did and if you're looking outside of the AR family, you might want to look at a SCAR 17.

 

[Bovice]

The DPMS .308 rifle is the best choice for you. The cost is reasonable for you being new to ARs and the magazines are very common. I agree with your logic of choosing .308 caliber. It's readily available if you don't have any of your own loaded up.

I have a DPMS varmint rifle in .223 and it's worked out fine. I did have one of the little gas rings on the bolt break, but it did not affect the function of the rifle and they sent me a new set of rings at no charge and no fuss. I think it got to my house in two days.

 

[MistWolf]

The alloy used in the manufacturing of the AR10 is 7175 and is superior to the excellent 7075 used in forged AR receivers. It's also stronger than the 6061 alloy that's often used to make 308 AR receivers. If you want a good AR in 308 at a decent price, look at the AR10A4.

7.62SASS has them for under $1300.
http://www.762sass.com/product.php?p=257&cid=9&session=3568a71be63013ff2a4ffe3a18f82a00

 

[madcratebuilder]

Don't get me wrong i really like my Armalite AR10. Yes, it is well made. That is why the Canadian Military uses them. I have the 308 and 338 Federal upper so far.
They have one major draw back. The AR10's have very large hinge pins, so you can only use There uppers for the most part.

All of the other manufacturers are more mix and match friendly.

NO sir. The difference between the .308 AR's is the way the back of the upper/lower mate, nothing to do with hing pins. What style magazine is another difference.

DPMS, LMT use the SR-25 style mags. ArmaLite, Noveske use the modified M14 mags. At one time the SR25 Pmags had a big price advantage. Now the ArmaLite mags are competitive with Pmags.

DPMS keeps the price down by using a extruded upper and a AR15 RE vs a full size .308 RE.

The new CMMG SASS with 18" WASP coated fluted barrel, PRS butt for $1500 looks like the best buy around on new rifles. It uses the SR25 mags (Pmags).

 

[6x6pinz]

Had a few teething problems with the DPMS LR308 but DPMS took care of them. The rifle has been running flawless ever since. Accuracy is good enough for hunting purposes but would have to be better for competition use. On a price point curve the DPMS is a good choice. If money is no object one of Larue's offering would be my choice, but for me I could not spend the money on a rifle I was not going to put a ton of rounds through.

 

[W.E.G.]

Guess which gun is more accurate.

 

[Frankl03]

I have the Bushmaster made by the same company as DPMS and it has been great! It comes with a chromelined chamber, bore and carrier. The heavy barrel is as accurate as I need to be. (sun moa with match ammo). It hasn't had a hiccup.

The 16 inch barrel is a plus which makes it lite enough to carry. Takes pmags too!

 

[JustinJ]

Guess which gun is more accurate.

Can i guess which is more reliable?

 

[mljdeckard]

Not necessarily. And when you are building a rifle for higher precision, you are less concerned with how many hundred rounds you can shoot through it between cleanings. DMPS LR-308 rifles are PLENTY reliable.

 

[JustinJ]

Not necessarily. And when you are building a rifle for higher precision, you are less concerned with how many hundred rounds you can shoot through it between cleanings. DMPS LR-308 rifles are PLENTY reliable.

My point is that they both have different strengths and weaknesses. I have a DPMS LR-308 and a number of AK platform rifles. My only bad experience with teh LR308 was due to a bad factory mag. However, they are way overgassed and foul up quickly. Given that they are not built for combat, yes, they are plenty reliable. Bambi and targets generally don't shoot back. Kangaroos on the other hand have been known to return fire. I've seen a video.

 

[Robert]

Had I the money, which I do not, I'd get the OBR and not look back. But that is me.

 

[Kurt_D]

Seriously, the Armalite or DPMS will be fine for what you're looking for. Both have models that are affordable, maybe DPMS more so. I feel Armalite's forged recievers are superior strength wise, therefore can be lighter than the extruded and milled guns (read: everybody else). Everybody here just starts naming the most expensive .308 AR they can think of and say it's better without even considering you probably don't want to pack a 12lb+, nose heavy, precission rifle in the woods on a hunting trip. I know because I have one of those, an Armalite Ar10 with Magpul PRS, Larue FF tube, Leupold Mark4 and Noveske 21" barrel = not a pack around rifle.

Let's see you want to hunt: I like the 18-20" barrels for .308 so the Armalite AR10A4 posted above is a good choice. The "infantry" weight barrel will keep weight down, I believe they are chrome lined for easier cleaning and Armalites tyically have accurate barrels. Price is ok at around $1300. Mags are a little expensive, even buying directly from Armalite, but they are steel and will last. DPMS would be a good choice too. I believe they sell a 20" barrel version similar to the Armalite. Mags are cheaper though I'm not sold on the extruded receivers for AR pattern rifles.

You want to change calibers: that's all these rifles with the push of 2 pins. The down side to the LMT system is when using optics they have to be re-zeroed after the barrel change, even if putting the same barrel back on. Swapping the whole upper means you leave the optic zeroed for .308 on the .308 upper, and it stays zeroed when put back on; the same is true for the .338 fed, .243, etc. uppers. Infact, like Ar15s the same BGC can be used for everything with the same case head size. Another plus is at $2500 for the .308 LMT you can afford something like the above posted Ar10A4 AND a .338 fed upper (or other upper of you choice) and still be less expensive.

Remember: almost all .308 ARs are proprietary; save for renames like Noveske (actually Armalite), Bushmaster and Remington (actually DPMS). So once you buy a system, make sure any parts you buy afterward are compatable with that system. Also these things get heavy fast when you start putting on FF rails, "match type" barrels, large scopes, fancy stocks, etc.

Last thing: The Sringfield M1As are very nice, again beware of weight though. The Socom and bush rifles have short barrels which reduce weight but all those rails can add it right back. The full size guns I'd stick to a base model (GI contour barrel) or maybe go Loaded model with med weight barrel at the most. I love my M1A but I'll admit the AR10 is more flexable.

 

[Tirod]

I'm going to touch on the rationale behind some of the expressed choices.

First, the .30-30 is the established American standard in deer hunting cartridges for the last 100 years. That doesn't make it the best choice lately, but establishes that plenty of hunters accept a max 250 yards as the effective range. Having hunted in woodlands for deer over 30 years, a 250 yard shot is rare. YMMV.

Having used a .308 the first 18 years, then a .30-06 bolt, the disadvantages of recoil and operating a manual action picking up a moving target become a bit more clear. Dealing with recoils above 35 pounds impedes the willingness to make a shot, and definitely interferes with a second. Entirely why the intermediate cartridges were invented - to help the soldier make the shot, rather than waste twice as much powder and brass. Intermediate cartridges make more hits. And hits are what bring down deer.

I built a 6.8SPCII AR for about $1k. With a $2k budget, I'd have already bought reloading gear to get better ammo for half the price. That follows for ANY gun or caliber. The ballistics of the 6.8 are easily sufficient to put 1,000 foot pounds of force out to 350 yards, which is why the AR has recently become considered a medium game rifle. You can hit game with it and not risk loss as lesser cartridges are prone to do. Further, you can carry the AR further in the woods with less exertion, shoot it more, and be more on target when a second shot is needed. That won't happen as well or as easily with a .308.

Some have suggested the 6.8 in the AR is America's new Win 94. Ballistically, it's a valid comparison, considering the 6.8 is the #1 alternate cartridge. It doesn't mean every one out there is a tricked out SWAT team gun either, just as not every lever gun was a John Wayne commemorative or Crazy Horse tack covered special edition. I built mine A1 fixed stock, rifle handguards, and kept it simple with an A3 flattop upper. It's a fine rifle, easy to carry when I'm burdened with insulated clothes and hunting gear. The .30's, not so much, as they become the focal point after hours in a stand or still hunting broken terrain.

List the pros and cons of each, I found the 6.8 was the better fit and better choice. Considering the amount of money getting thrown at this situation, you could buy two and the reloading gear to make the ammo, and still be ahead, vs one .308. And likely, more successful, making better shots than lugging around a heavy artillery piece all day.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

I have the Bushmaster made by the same company as DPMS and it has been great! It comes with a chromelined chamber, bore and carrier. The heavy barrel is as accurate as I need to be. (sun moa with match ammo). It hasn't had a hiccup.

The 16 inch barrel is a plus which makes it lite enough to carry. Takes pmags too!

May I ask which free float tube that is and how much more than the handguard does it weigh?

 

[ORHunter79]

Never had any problems with Rock River Arms.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=254

 

[bedford]

Thanks for all the input

Like I said though, I am an AR IDIOT. Some of your acronyms, FF and the like I don't know what they mean. YMMV, what is that? BUIS? I really don't want to spend 3k, and I do like the sound of being able to change an upper and keep zero, but then I would need to have optics for each one. Either way I'm stuck spending something somewhere. For now though I think I'll just concentrate on the 308. I do agree that the 6.8 will do anything that the 7.62 will, and I do reload, but I've seen some pretty good deals on Lake City or other ammo at gun shows and 308 is available everywhere. Now, will it function in a 7.62 NATO gun? I'll have to research. I'm sure I can work up good hunting loads, just plain fun loads using brass with 7.62 NATO headstamps. I am not interested in a bump stock to act like I have full auto. While it would be fun to play with, I'm not putting $300 bucks into something that just throws cash away. Fun, yes, but not $300 worth. In looking around, Colts SP901 looks interesting, but they haven't named a price yet. It was supposed to have hit the market, but I can't see a price listed anywhere. Anyone seen it? Keep em coming, I like reading your comments.