Trade my Radom P64 for a sporterized 1903?

[leadcounsel]

Trade Radom P64 for Rock Island 1903?

I've got the chance to trade my Polish Radom P64 for a sporterized Rock Island 1903, with a serial in the 400,000 range.

The rifle appears to have 70% blueing, and a solid stock with no issues. From the pictures, it appears to have the barrel sight cut off, and perhaps recrowned. I'm not positive.

My Radom is a standard 1970 model with 1 magazine. I have several, so it's not particularly unique to me. The pistol would be merely a range gun and doubtfully every called into duty above any of my modern handguns.

My thought is that the rifle action is excellent, and these are more historically interesting. And the receiver and action alone are probably worth the value of the P64. I think it would be at least a straight fair trade, and probably there is more value in the 1903.

I do own a few 1903s, and picked up a gem last week too. Thinking of adding this RI to my collection.

Input appreciated.

 

[leadcounsel]

Anyone?

 

[rcmodel]

Might have posted it in the wrong forum to get anyone to answer.

The Firearms Research Forum is not Gun Trade Clearing house.

A P-64 is a $250 -$300 gun all day.

A sporterized 03 is to, if it has a nice walnut sporter stock, a good high polish blue job, scope bolt & safety, and a good scope on it.

And is not just a Bubba with a hack-saw job.

I'd have to see good photos of it to say if it is an equal trade or not.

rc

 

[leadcounsel]

(I originally posted this in perhaps the wrong forum, so Mods please feel free to delete/move/etc. Thanks)

I've got the chance to trade my Polish Radom P64 for a sporterized Rock Island 1903, with a serial in the 400,000 range.

The rifle appears to have 70% blueing, and a solid stock with no issues. From the pictures, it appears to have the barrel sight cut off, and perhaps recrowned. I'm not positive.

My Radom is a standard 1970 model with 1 magazine. I have several, so it's not particularly unique to me. The pistol would be merely a range gun and doubtfully every called into duty above any of my modern handguns.

My thought is that the rifle action is excellent, and these are more historically interesting. And the receiver and action alone are probably worth the value of the P64. I think it would be at least a straight fair trade, and probably there is more value in the 1903.

I do own a few 1903s, and picked up a gem last week too. Thinking of adding this RI to my collection.

Input appreciated.

 

[PabloJ]

I would keep the P64.

 

[230RN]

Probably, keep the Radom. Since you stated the serial number, you're probably aware of the problems with Springfield Armory '03s below S/N ~800,000 and Rock Island '03s below S/N ~300,000.

These numbers are approximate since the records got a bit muddled, but Hatcher has a discussion of the glass-hard heat treatment problems of these guns' receivers and the serial numbers involved in Hatcher's Notebook, Chapter XVIII (18), "Record of Accidents to the U.S. Rifle Cal. .30, M1903. 1917 to 1929, Incl." and elsewhere.

There have been some indications that some of the glass-hard receivers were re-introduced into the production lines later, with higher S/Ns. Thus, the "usual" warnings about Rock Island rifles goes to the 400,000 you mentioned.

Even though many of them were re-heat treated to anneal them, the Ordnance Department decided to keep this set of 03s as Wartime Reserve, and not issue them routinely.

If you have extra Radoms, and you just want to complete the '03 collection*, OK, but I would not use it as a "shooter" and for myself, I would take steps to deactivate** the rifle.


Terry, 230RN

* Bearing in mind that it's been sporterized and hence not a true "collectible."

** Example of deactivation:
From:
http://www.sarcoinc.com/springfields.html

1903A3 Safety Bolt - firing pin hole has been welded and we supply a shorter firing pin with bolt. Use for display at home or in your military vehicle so rifle can not be fired.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

I agree with Pablo. Keep the P-64.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Would depend on how well the 1903 was done. Some where well done by good smiths back in the day and if that is the case I would do it. If it were a "bubba" job I would be more leery unless you were interested in hunting with a classic rifle.

I like to pick up the well done sporters when I can. If you don't get this one I'm sure you'll find another down the road.

 

[leadcounsel]

So I looked at the 1903 today.

It was drilled and tapped, which I know harms the value.

It is unique in that it has a two position safety (fire and safe with bolt locked) unlike any other 1903 I've seen. Every other one has had a 3 position safety.

It also had a metal plate screwed in along the left side of the receiver, almost were you'd see the Pederson device port. I've never seen that before either. I didn't see any obvious signs of any damage, but that was definitely suspect. Why would someone do that, other than to perhaps try to strengthen the receiver??

I held off on the trade, pending more research.

 

[Hometeached1]

Since you already have ones similar to both, get/keep which one you would use the most. Personally I'd keep the P64.

 

[rcmodel]

No more research needed.

It has been Sporterized in the 1960's or early 70's by a hobby gun-smith in the basement.
The plate on the side of the receiver is all that is left of a side scope mount & the holes drilled to mount it.
You would be hard pressed to find a mount that fits the hole pattern to scope it again.

The two-position safety is an after-market part known as a 'Low Scope Safety', low enough to work with a scope in the way of the tree-position military wing safety.

There is nothing 'Special' or rare about it.
It's just an old Bubba'd Springfield somebody made a deer rifle out of in the basement 50 years ago.

Keep your pistol!

rc

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

RC nailed it.
That does not look like any G & H base I've ever seen.
Can not tell if it is dovetailed on top or not.

Lumber sure looks to be nothing special, and you say the barrel has been shortened.

Rifle would be the harder sale of the two guns mentioned.
So it's back to you whether you want the gun or not.

JT

 

[leadcounsel]

RC and others, this is exactly that guidance I needed. Appreciate the input.

Gonna keep my Radom.

Thanks.

 

[230RN]

Well, if it's been drilled into for the side plate, at least it's out of the "hard receiver" set of '03s.

It would have been nice to have known that from the original post.

Terry

 

[Jim Watson]

Geez, I did not know that we were now instructed to be fearful of 1903s up to RIA 400,000 instead of the official changeover to double heat treatment there at 285,507. RIA did not finish but 430,742 rifles, plus 25,600 nickel steel receivers completed at Springfield after RIA shut down in 1926.

Seems if the OP already had "a few 1903s and picked up a gem last week" that the differences would be obvious and well known.

Agree that the mystery plate is what is left of a side scope mount. Not G&H, Jaeger, Echo, or Weaver; so it is from something really obscure. Reason enough to give up and d&t for top mounts.

I would not acquire this one. But then I don't have a P64 to think about trading off, either.