Traffic Stop AAR

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Minor Correction For Both Of You

QUOTE: The trooper knew you had a permit as soon as he ran your plates. It came up on his computer.

Not in Colorado he didn't, no such data base exists in this state
 
I'm just speaking in generic terms. Any database tying CCW holders to license plates will only report info on the registered owner, who (whom?) may or not be the actual driver. I don't know squat about CO-specific information, nor was I trying to represent such.
 
Sorry dude, but YOU did use the personal pronoun YOU which would imply to ME that YOU were replying to ME the OP who lives in COLORADO
 
The brass at the Pueblo CSP office told me that the info does indeed come up when they run the plates. They offered to show me, but I had just bought my truck from my SIL and was still running his plates.

I do business with the brass at the CSP office on a regular basis, and I asked them one day just out of curiosity. I haven't been personally stopped by a trooper since the summer of 1992.
 
I think it's very telling about some people on this thread, that they want to OP to have been more belligerent to the officer, even though it would have resulted in an actual ticket, just because they see any police action as harassment and infringement on rights.

As for me, I've been pulled over 4 times while carrying, twice at "random" DUI checkpoints, and twice for actually breaking traffics laws. Not a single officer in any of the 4 situations was anything less than polite, and didn't care one bit that I was carrying. When I handed over my CPL, and told them I had a weapon, only one of the officers even acted even mildly concerned. AND I never got a ticket for any of the stops.

Wheelgun and others, perhaps your mom once told you the axiom , "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

Maybe if you stop acting like the police are your enemies, the police will stop reacting to your belligerence in kind.


treo: I wanted to do a little AAR ( after action review )
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AAR (after action review) - huh? Did you make that up or learn it in mall ninja school?
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I thought everyone knew what AAR meant, at least everyone on gun boards. It's used all the time in the military and such.
 
Sorry dude, but YOU did use the personal pronoun YOU which would imply to ME that YOU were replying to ME the OP who lives in COLORADO
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This has too many pronouns for me to follow, but suffice it to say I was responding to Larry's post, not yours, in re: CCW/license plate databases. I even quoted him.

So, to make it simple, try this: In all fifty states, the registered owner is not necessarily the current operator, and therefore any database which may or may not exist in said state, which links CCW to license plates will not necessarily provide information about the current operator of said vehicle, which may or not be a car, truck, motorcycle, or motorhome. That should be generic enough.
 
I live in El Paso county, our county Sherriff Terry Maketa (Who is the issuing authority) has stated that he feels that such a database is a violation of Colorado law & he provides no names to any such data base. I saw the troopers reaction when I handed him the permit, he was either a consumate actor ( who was trying to entrap me) or genuinely freaked out he did NOT know I had a permit till I handed it to him.
 
OK, I'll try one more time....

A reaction such as the one I posted happens when the officer that stopped you SEES your gun, and you have NOT informed them that you have a CCW/CPL.

Do you have to let the officer know that you are legally carrying? In WA State, no, you don't. If I don't see the weapon, and you're acting normally, OK. I have no reason to pry, we'll talk about the traffic problem, and 9 chances out of 10, you get a warning. I'll usually stop about 20 or 30 cars before I write a citation.

Now, if I see a gun, and you haven't told me about it--or, if you're being evasive, and I see the gun? Bad juju. You figure it out.
 
Maybe if you stop acting like the police are your enemies, the police will stop reacting to your belligerence in kind.
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Just as soon as they quit threatening to point an AR15 at me because they saw a bulge in my pants.

Why can't they just be like the ladies and smile about it?
 
Ok I'LL Try One More Time

Again, the cop DID NOT see my gun I WAS NOT being evasive. The INSTANT he asked if I had any weapons I handed him my CHP
None of your what ifs apply.

For the THIRD TIME powderman I am directly asking you how was this cop any safer the second time he pulled me over, than he was the first time ?
 
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock."
----Will Rogers

First off, you are dealing with a dangerous critter armed with at least one firearm coming from behind who is intent on a confrontation/interview/whatever. Keeping the LEO from getting bent outta shape and getting back on your way with the least amount of damage is your goal. Minimalist diplomacy seems the best way to achieve this.

If the LEO is fishing, the "Am I free to go," response may have to be deployed, despite the risk of ruffling his feathers. This is still preferable to getting into extensive conversation, as you will not talk your way out of a ticket, only into more trouble.

When confronted with fictitious law, some response like, "I was not aware that was a law," seems harmless enough and has the added advantage of being the truth.

Such a mild response will not satisfy a LEO who has elevated to Full Neckvein mode, as he will see anything not the verbal equivalent to a kowtow as inflammatory.

If things get frisky, remember, you will not win a legal battle on the side of the road. Stay calm, reign in any desire to smite the fellow (no matter how deserving), and get that rock in the form of a lawyer. Then, bash his head in with the law.
 
Treo, if you cannot determine from the theme of my posts that I was adding a comment TO another comment--AND NOT ANSWERING YOUR POST DIRECTLY--then perhaps you should re-read the entire thread.

And, as usual, another thread on this board goes to unlimited cop bashing. We are, of course, the ones who are itching for confrontations, the ones who just can't wait to tromp all over your civil rights, to take your belongings without just cause, and to just plain kill you whenever we have the chance.

I have absolutely NO idea why I even posted here. I saw that a couple of other officers had posted, and of course, received the treatment I have come to expect from about 80% of the members of this board.

The other 20% is the only reason I stay on.

To the other officers who have posted here: Please be advised that this is what you can expect every time you post about a "sensitive" subject like a traffic stop. Moreover, if you attempt to portray anything law enforcement related in a positive manner, expect incoming.

For the rest of you, please feel free to return to your cop-bash festival. I leave you to your own devices. Have a pleasant day.
 
Officer Friendly is laying half in and half out of his patrol car, because a drunk and deranged Vietnam Veteran engaged him with an M1 Carbine.Powderman said:
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Powderman, I'm adding you to my "John Kerry List" of people who owe me an apology for statements like this.

It would seem that after forty plus years the myth of Vietnam Veterans being drug crazed baby killers would have been abandoned, Guess not!
 
KABA, my remarks were most assuredly NOT directed at Vietnam Veterans in general, at all. If I gave that impression, I tender my most sincere apologies. My remark was directed at ONE self-declared Vietnam Veteran, found at this link. I encourage you to watch it. For the other folks on the board, I encourage you to watch it, too.

Maybe then you'll understand us and the way we act as LEO just a little more.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1364316137
 
If a cop all the sudden started pointing an AR15 at me because he thought I had a firearm during a traffic stop you can be damned sure I would pursue every legal action to make his life miserable.

Lawsuits, newspaper stories, filming his official activities and publishing any misconduct... etc
 
Powderman,
I understand and appreciate the clarification. Unfortunately in the late 60's and 70's veterans were completely trashed by the media and politicians. It seemed that in every TV show the villain was a drug crazed Viet Vet.

I found it prudent when applying for a job or meeting new people to keep my status as a veteran concealed.

I served honorably for what I considered then and still consider to have been a good cause.

I support LEO's. I know that they do difficult and often dangerous jobs. And I certainly don't believe they should be judged by the actions of a tiny minority of misfits who also call themselves LEO's. Unfortunately, just as was true of Viet Vets, those few bad apples get a disproportionate amount of media attention at the expense of the others.
 
Interesting opinions. I'm just an old,70+, retired cowboy. Been all over these United States, had a lot of contacts with law enforcement ,some good, some bad but through it all I found a policy that worked for me. I always tried to be polite to the officer, may not have wanted to; do what he requested , I may not have liked it, and most of all answer his questions but offer nothing else, no small talk. Keep the entire encounter citizen/officer. Oh one other point, in my state I carry BP open, no permit required. To the gentleman that stated a DUDE works on a ranch...You are mistaken...A Dude vacations at a ranch, don't insult working cowboys, there arn't many of us left.
 
What the M-1 Carbine man did was murder. It was wrong.

However, it is not suprising that after having been through war, being pulled over for having an expired plate or a broken tail light just might send someone over the edge of "This is unbelievably stupid, petty, I'm sick and tired of it, and I'm not going to be pushed around by this punk."

Even I recognize that being pulled over for an expired plate, or having to have license plates, period, is unbelievably stupid and petty. I'm tired of such stupidity and pettiness. But never would I resort to murder.

Mustanger, how about you? Had you been a cowboy in the 1870's, would you have submitted to a registered, permanent license plate on your horse, against your will? How about an ID you were forced to carry while riding your horse? You know, ID you'd be forced to supply when asked by a U.S. Marshal, when your name and your word just weren't good enough? As for me? I think I might put my own VIN on my horse, for my own benefit: not the government's benefit. It would be this revolutionary thing called a "brand."

Just food for thought, LEO's, when you're pulling people over, not for violating the rights of other people, but rather, violating the rights of God (marijuana possession, prostitution) or violating the arbitrary will of individuals in government (weapons charges, car registration, etc.) You know those lawmakers. They're the same ones that pass laws to help ensure that the real criminals you catch are released right back into the wild. Of course, the lawmakers couldn't do it without those judges, who seldom let a minor traffic violation go, but are more than willing to allow a rapist or violent felon to plea-bargain his way out of as much prison time as he possibly can.

Perhaps I'm naive, but it seems to me that the only thing any policeman (privatized, of course) should pull anyone over for is reckless driving, or someone who is known or seriously suspected to be a violent felon. I think I'm done listing good reasons to pull anyone over.

Go for it, police. Keep pulling people over for missing tail-lights, "too much tinting" and expired plates. Whether or not it may be a "sign of illegal activity," I don't see why you have any right to pull someone over and fine him for such things. And no, I've never been pulled over or fined for any of these things.

-Sans Authoritas

This cop couldn't take his own style of petty medicine, dispensed by a fellow policeman. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=3458642
 
I'm Out

I get the feeling that this thread is going to get locked soon. I want to thank those that replied. I think the " I didn't know I was required to do that " answer is probably going to be the best thanks again
 
Just as soon as they quit threatening to point an AR15 at me because they saw a bulge in my pants.



has this ever actually happened to you?
 
I get the feeling that this thread is going to get locked soon.
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I hope so.

Just as soon as they quit threatening to point an AR15 at me because they saw a bulge in my pants.
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I have never drawn a gun over a bulge in someones pants, but I pulled a knife on a scary looking camel toe once.
 
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A Responsible Law-Abiding Citizen.

I think that this would be a very good time to remind all the participants in this dissicussion that my main question was how I could best protect myself from a police officer who was offended by my not informing him of a perectly legal firearm I was carrying when I had NO LEGAL DUTY to do so.
I have to say, looking back over this thread that I am more concerned W/ the comments of some ofthe police than any "cop-bashing". When I hear a public servant, who is sworn to uphold the law, say that he doesn't care what the law says he requires something else and is willing to abuse his authority to force compliance, it is a matter of GRAVE concern to me. I'm looking at the letter that accompanied my CHP.
One sentence in particular stands out; " This priveledge carries with it a significant responsibility that you, as a responsible law-abing citizen , exercise sound judgement , restraint & safety in the use and handling of firearms"
That sentence tells me that the Sherriff of El Paso county assumes that I am a responsible, law-abiding citizen who is capable of excercising sound judgement. He is inessence stating that he does not consider me a threat to the good order of his juridiction just because I have a gun.

After hearing that it bothers me to hear that a public servant , a public servant to whom I am willing to entrust the capability to exercise the same sound judgement , restraint & safety in the use and handling of firearms , I might add has some how placed himself above the law & is unwilling to grant me the same trust, again I am gravely concerned
If you (generic) as an officer of the law are concerned about the attitude of mistrust displayed by members ( including myself) of this forum. I really think you need to take a long hard look at what YOU (generic) have done to foster it.
 
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