San Diego's Finest...

[STAGE 2]

...or how to meet your quota.

I got a call from my Dad last night. Apparently he had a run in with the police, specifically of the shiny boot kawasaki variety. He was driving home from work on side streets and was approaching an intersection. The light turned yellow and then red so he slowed and came to a stop. A bike cop rolled up to the passenger side of his jeep and motioned for him to roll down the window.

Being the compliant law abiding citizen that he is, he rolled down the window to see what the cop wanted. Well Johnny Law looked at him and informed my Dad that he ran the red light. Totally confused because the last light he went through was about 3 miles back, my Dad told him, "no sir I didn't.

Here's where it gets good. The cop told him that, "yes you did run the red light. Your tire is crossing the pedestrian line. You ran the red light." In disbelief my Dad told him that he did not enter the intersection, tire or otherwise and he didn't run the red light. They went back and forth once more, and finally the cop just shook his head and drove off.

A couple of lights down the road, my dad saw the cop pulling alongside another car and doing the same thing.

I understand that cops need to meet their quotas, but are there no people speeding on California freeways that you have to resort to pathetic and harassing procedures.

 

[Art Eatman]

There is ALWAYS some over-eager idiot in any organization. Your father found one in the SDPD. I've run across a few through the years. Fortunately, there aren't all that many in any given area.

Art

 

[STAGE 2]

Absolutely true. What I find to be ridiculous was that the cop tried to stretch nothing into something. Its possible that he could have written a violation for being in the pedestrian zone, but running a red light is completely ridiculous.

Even wierder was the fact that he just gave up and drove off. I've never met or heard of a cop with an attitude that simply stopped and gave up.

Strange brew.

 

[Molon Labe]

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21453.htm

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c2a3.htm

 

[STAGE 2]

I'm going to be hopeful here and assume you're not coming to the defense of the cop

 

[Molon Labe]

I'm going to be hopeful here and assume you're not coming to the defense of the cop

IANAL, but technically speaking, I think the cop was correct. Having said that, I think the cop was being a Class-A jerk. His time is better spent going after more serious crimes, obviously.

 

[The Cavalry]

He was probably fishing for drunks, listening for slurred/delayed response to his verbal challenge.

Not saying I agree w/ the tactic.

 

[Erebus]

I know that in Boston they regularly run blitzes on crosswalks. They put plain clothes officers on cornors to cross streets in crosswalks. If any portion of your car, bumpers and all, breaks the plane of the crosswalk while there is a foot in it they nail you. I don't remember the amount of the fine but I remember thinking it was steep, and it's surchargable on your auto insurance and that is always steep in MA.

This is not to slam the cops at all as you shouldn't be driving in a crosswalk someone is walking in. It's to point out that in MA your tire doesn't have to be in the cross walk at all to be in violation. If any portion of the car is breaking the plane of the crosswalk it's a violation. Like scoring a touchdown in football, your car is the ball and the crosswalk is the goalline.

Could be the same policy in CA as well.

 

[STAGE 2]

If any portion of the car is breaking the plane of the crosswalk it's a violation. Like scoring a touchdown in football, your car is the ball and the crosswalk is the goalline.

Correct, but running a red light and having your tire/car cross the plane of the crosswalk are two totally separate violations. If the cop wanted to be a jerk he could have technically given a ticket. However he could not have legally written a citation for running a red light. The fact that he would even suggest that lets me know what kind of guy he is.

 

[HankB]

They put plain clothes officers on cornors to cross streets in crosswalks.

Sounds dangerous - unless a marked squad parked around the corner makes the stop, it's reasonably foreseeable that the plain clothes officer could be mistaken for a carjacker when he approaches the car . . .

 

[dm1333]

I had that twice in Orgegon

Tell your Dad to go to court and fight it. I was ticketed by OSP for going 66 in a 55, fought it and won since I was following several friends and we were going about 50 on a windy road. I was also ticketed by the city for parking in a pay parking space but my time had run out. I ran home (literally) grabbed a camera and took pictures of the vehicles next to mine that also had the time expired but no ticket. My truck had WA plates at the time and all the other vehicles were from Oregon. The judge in traffic court found my pictures amusing and dismissed the case.

 

[STAGE 2]

If you read above, he wasn't cited. I assume the cop knew that it would be worthless to write a ticket because it would be bogus and my Dad wasn't taking any of his crap.

 

[Optical Serenity]

In most states, if you run the line (often referred to as the baulk line) then YES, you have "ran the red light" or as GA law puts it "Failure to Obey a Traffic Control Device."

You know what cracks me up, I've never received a complaint when I actually arrested someone or cited them. Its always when you give a warning or break. Such as the OP's dad.

That being said, there are no quotes. Certainly not in GA or any other state I have ever seen. I know plenty of officers I've worked with who write VERY few (under 10) tickets a month, and those are for accidents. Then there are those assigned to a traffic unit (such as most all motor units) who's JOB it is to write citations.

All that being said, just like all walks of life, when you get a group of people together. There will be those who you agree with and there will be those you do not. And same goes with their personality.

Why so many "High Road" members are so anti-govt anti-LEO is beyond me. You would think the "High Road" way of life would be to go about your life and not worry about it. Especially if given a warning / break.

If you disagree with the law, don't blame on those who's job function is NOT to create law, but to simply enforce it. Blame the politicians YOU put in office.

YACBT (Yet Another Cop Bashing Thread)

 

[dillonuser]

In the seventies in South Salt Lake I once got "pulled over" while at work and I wasn't even driving. Someone had cut thru on their Harley. Police saw my bike parked in front of my employers business and 4 to 6 cop cars swarmed on me.They are going to give ME a ticket for cutting the corner.
I've been at work 4+ hours and they won't check to see if my engine is even warm. Will any of them listen to me? No. They are shaking their fingers in my face and saying "We saw you do it" and "you cut thru and went south down the road." After about 5-10 minutes of this BS, I finally confronted them with "You tell me how I am down the road, and still here, and we are going to win the Nobel Prize." They congregated together then said "We are going to let you go this time.But,don't do it again" Any apology? Not from them.

One of these guys is now mayor............

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Optical Serenity

There were quotas nationwide in the mid-late 90s, tied to federal money. I do not know if that is still the case. It was not individual quotas, but traffic sections and department wide quotas - or a loss of funds.

I can assure you that your department tracked this and reported it, even if you did not know about it.

The guys assigned to traffic details all knew about it. The regular patrol guys did not always know about it (their quota was much lower).

My guess is that this is still the case.


www.georgiacarry.org

www.georgiapacking.org

 

[tube_ee]

I'm going for the "fishing for drunks" theory. It's happened to me, in a rural county in Northern Cal. Lake County Sheriff followed me (in a beat-up Datsun) for almost 10 miles before pulling me over. After running my license, he claimed that he pulled me over "because your trailer hitch obscures the view of your license plate... would you mind coming back here and taking a look at it?" After I walked nice and straight and sober back to look at this dangerous violation of the CAVC, he advised me to turn it over when not using it.

I've no doubt, then or niw, that after following me exactly at the speed limit, over winding rural highway for 10 minutes, without a bobble or weave in sight, he just wanted to put me under some mental pressure and see me walk. Being, as I was, "as sober as a judge", (well, maybe not a Lake County judge), he had nothing and he knew it.

I laughed about it then, and I laugh about it today. No biggie.

--Shannon

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

Is your Dad sure the cop was a real and not a wannabe?

 

[Optical Serenity]

I can assure you that your department tracked this and reported it, even if you did not know about it.

The guys assigned to traffic details all knew about it. The regular patrol guys did not always know about it (their quota was much lower).

My guess is that this is still the case.

Actually, I never have worked for a dept with quotas or know of any. In fact, I'm not naive to how things get reported, I've always been heavily involved with that considering I typically have the highest number of traffic related arrests. In fact, at one dept I had the highest...over 300 DUIs alone in 12 months. Also the highest convictions.

So, yes...Being a traffic officer, I can assure you I could have went three months without a ticket and no one would have looked twice. Heck they probably would have been THRILLED because they had to pay me to be in court so much .

Yes, everything is tracked...but there is no minimum. Actually our reports were very advanced, too.

 

[Shield529]

"If you read above, he wasn't cited. I assume the cop knew that it would be worthless to write a ticket because it would be bogus and my Dad wasn't taking any of his crap."

I will try hard to take the High Road.

Are you kidding me?

If it is in the statute book then it would not be worthless or bogus. It would be a ligit citation for the minor traffic offence. Your dad would get the ticket, sign in, and maybe argue in court. He would still be convicted for the offence if it was valid. It is not taking crap. If someone you cared about got hit in a crosswalk because someone like your dad was being careless.
Also the officer just gave a verbal warning and your dad had to argue. If he did it he should accept it.
If the officer was "fishing" for drunks by making legal contacts, then great. I hope he catches dozens. That is what you pay us to do.

If I make anymore statements about what you have said I would have to go low road.

 

[crazed_ss]

It's "America's Finest".. SDPD cars say "America's Finest" on them

 

[50 Freak]

Have your dad call the watch commander or captain on duty and give him an earful. If nothing comes out of it. Call your mayor and complain. And keep complaining till they are all sick of listening to him.

This is crap and you can't just let it slip. You need to weed out this Barney Fife.

 

[Shield529]

Call the watch commander for what? For the officer pointing out that he commited a traffic violation? What is it you think cops should do all day?

 

[Coronach]

There were quotas nationwide in the mid-late 90s, tied to federal money. I do not know if that is still the case. It was not individual quotas, but traffic sections and department wide quotas - or a loss of funds.

I can assure you that your department tracked this and reported it, even if you did not know about it.

The guys assigned to traffic details all knew about it. The regular patrol guys did not always know about it (their quota was much lower).

My guess is that this is still the case.

I call BS on this.

Now, moving on...

What was described was a technical violation. If a cite had been issued, it would have been a poor use of discretion. It also would most likely have been dismissed by a rather annoyed judge of it went to trial. It was, however, almost certainly a technical violation, not unlike the "crappy pinches" written by the one jerk in every department for "rolling stops" where the car slows to an almost-but-not-quite-halt, or going 1 mph over the limit. A violation? Yep. A crappy pinch? Yep.

The proper venue for contesting citations, either bemoaning the fiddling nit-picky silliness or protesting actual innocence, is court. Sign the ticket, request a trial, and plead your case. And you know? I'd probably call his supervisor, too. *shrug*

Mike

 

[ccwolff]

I was rightfully pulled over once for driving in the carpool lane that merges on to the freeway.
There was a light on this entrance ramp and the cop was waiting on the other side of the light.
Traffic was backed up.
I did not see him in time to get back into the regular lane, I stopped at the light and when it turned green I went, hoping he would not notice me as he was currently giving someone else a ticket.
No dice.
He signaled me to pull over, and in addition to writing me a ticket for the car pool lane violation he told me that I had ran the light.

I told him I did not, AND here is the part that p'ed me off.

He said o.k. and dropped it, just like that.
I am assuming he was testing me or something.

I was anti- gov/cop before I was pulled over.
I was anti- gov/cop while I was pulled over.
And I was anti- gov/cop after I was pulled over.

Why so many "High Road" members are so anti-govt anti-LEO is beyond me. You would think the "High Road" way of life would be to go about your life and not worry about it. Especially if given a warning / break.

If you disagree with the law, don't blame on those who's job function is NOT to create law, but to simply enforce it. Blame the politicians YOU put in office.

Could it be that so many people are anti- gov/cop because of interactions with cops/gov?
I know I did not come out the womb a cop/gov hater.......

If I disagree about the law I am going to blame EVERYONE involved, starting with those who's job function is NOT to create law, but to simply enforce it.

 

[Jeff White]

Let's not forget that citizen complaints lead to a lot of enforcement of things like pulling into the cross walk, running a stop sign at a certain intersection, radar on a certain stretch of road.

Could be that a pedestrian was hit or bumped by a car in the crosswalk and someone or many someones called in and complained a lot. So the order went out, step up enforcement of cars pulling into the crosswalk.

You'd be surprised how responsive most departments are to complaints like this. Especially if the people complain to an alderman, councilman or county board member. The next time you see stepped up enforcement of a minor violation, you should wonder who complained about it not being enforced.

Jeff