Training for accuracy with a J-frame?

[bainter1212]

Hi folks,

I carry a J frame Airweight every day and I had the notion last night that I should probably be doing some practice with it.
I found that mastering the double action pull and keeping my rounds reasonably centered was a challenge, but not so bad that it couldn't be done.
The trick with the DA pull seems to be to do it smoothly and as quickly as possible. If I thought about the shot too long it seemed to go astray.

Once I got the hang of that trigger, I moved the target out to 15 yds to see if I could keep my shots on target. Most of the shots were DA, one pull per second with a quick pair here and there. It ain't up to Bullseye standards but taming the J frame now seems possible.

If I had better sights I think I could do better.

 

[bainter1212]

Edit

 

[Panzerschwein]

Bainter: nice work!

With practice, you'll find those groups will shrink quite a bit! I also recommend dry fire practice with snap caps, focus on keeping the sights steady when the trigger breaks.

 

[TimSr]

Another issue for me with a double action snubby was learning the fastest rate of fire that I could keep it on target. In panic situations people often empty their snubby without hitting anything. I know I can pull the trigger a lot faster than I can put the muzzle back on target.

 

[bainter1212]

Bainter: nice work!

With practice, you'll find those groups will shrink quite a bit! I also recommend dry fire practice with snap caps, focus on keeping the sights steady when the trigger breaks.

Copy that.

Got to order some snap caps for it....

 

[bainter1212]

Another issue for me with a double action snubby was learning the fastest rate of fire that I could keep it on target. In panic situations people often empty their snubby without hitting anything. I know I can pull the trigger a lot faster than I can put the muzzle back on target.

This is a big thing for me too.

I figure if I can nail down my fastest rate of fire and practice a ton, hopefully in a bad situation I can be reasonably accurate without (or despite) being panicked.

 

[bannockburn]

bainter1212

With my J frames I like to start out with 148 gr. wadcutter target ammo just to get accustomed to the DA trigger and then eventually I switch over to full house defensive loads for EDC.

 

[SlayerOfBunnies]

> The trick with the DA pull seems to be to do it smoothly and as quickly as possible.

Another option is to learn to stage the trigger. Press it almost to the point that it drops the hammer, fine tune your aim at that point and apply juuuuust a little more pressure.

 

[mavracer]

Another option is to learn to stage the trigger. Press it almost to the point that it drops the hammer, fine tune your aim at that point and apply juuuuust a little more pressure

If you're gonna take the time to stage the trigger, you might as well get one with a hammer spur and shoot SA.
The key is to teach your trigger finger to stroke the trigger without the rest of your hand moving. As cooldill said dry fire helps a laser will give instant visual feedback and while Crimson trace are good, you can get by with a cheap laser pointer taped to the barrel.
One plus of the CT grip is you can also practice point shooting.

 

[Handyguy]

The C Trace on mine made it much easier to get on target!

 

[weblance]

Thats why I bought a 638. I can see how accurate the revolver is, and where it shoots to the sights, in Single Action, then there is no snag with the spur when drawing, or if shot from cover of pocket. I think the 638, and its variants are perfect.

Taurus has revolvers now that have a removable hammer spur.

Ive recently purchased several Charter Arms revolvers. I bought the models with a spurred hammer. I then purchased the DAO spurless hammer from Charter. Test at the range with SA, then replace the hammer with the spurless.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I recommend Tipton snap caps. Very safe and hold up well.

 

[Sunray]

Which 'J' frame? There are 'J' frames that come with regular Smith sights.
You had the trigger done? All firearms require a trigger job right out of the box due to frivolous law suits.
The grip fit your hand properly? Pachmayr can fix it if it doesn't.
And one pull per second is too fast.

 

[TimSr]

Another option is to learn to stage the trigger. Press it almost to the point that it drops the hammer, fine tune your aim at that point and apply juuuuust a little more pressure.

My Taurus is easy to do that, and its great for impressing people on the range with how well I can shoot it, or testing new handloads, but I do defense pratice in the way I would expect to have to use it in a defense situation, and to me that means pointing and shooting with one long trigger action, and trying to get the timing right for pulling the whne I get the muzzle back on target, and not before (or after).

 

[Zendude]

DA takes practice especially if you are used to SA shooting. Trigger finger has to move completely independent of any other muscle in the hand.

 

[aarondhgraham]

What helped me with my model 36,,,

What helped me with my model 36,,,
Was buying a Model 34 chambered in .22 LR.

So now practice is much cheaper,,,
I can practice a lot more.

What really helped me though is I stopped using the sights,,,
I practiced point shooting and it truly works well for me.

At 7 yards I can draw and put three rounds in center mass,,,
I don't have a timer but I'm fairly quick,,,
I finally learned to point & click.

Try it,,,
You might surprise yourself.

Aarond

.

 

[UncleEd]

The J-frame is a close-in weapon.

You should practice at 3 yards, 5 yards.
One handed, two handed.

Don't worry about the sights. Just
see the front end of the muzzle.

Why do people get J-frames, LCRs and
then treat them like their big brothers?

After you've become fast and proficient
at the short distance (even 6 feet) for
quite a while, then play target games.

I know, some poster will posit a bunch of
what ifs. Waste of time, especially in the
long learning process.

 

[ku4hx]

Bainter: nice work!

With practice, you'll find those groups will shrink quite a bit! I also recommend dry fire practice with snap caps, focus on keeping the sights steady when the trigger breaks.

This exactly. Keep in mind, if your target had been a bad guy, he'd be hurting or worse; the more wound channels the better..

 

[bainter1212]

The J-frame is a close-in weapon.

You should practice at 3 yards, 5 yards.
One handed, two handed.

Don't worry about the sights. Just
see the front end of the muzzle.

Why do people get J-frames, LCRs and
then treat them like their big brothers?

After you've become fast and proficient
at the short distance (even 6 feet) for
quite a while, then play target games.

I know, some poster will posit a bunch of
what ifs. Waste of time, especially in the
long learning process.

I figure if I practice at my maximum effective distance, I should be good to go at shorter distances too. I believe that would apply to all pistols.
BTW I always start at 3 yds and move outwards. As long as all my shots hit the target I am good.

My patricular gun is a model 360. This one came with an excellent ergonomic grip that you don't see too often on a J frame. It has a standard exposed hammer.

I do practice shooting or drawing one-handed from time to time. I find that I can cock the hammer as I draw pretty fast.....doesn't seem to slow down my draw, at least when I do it one-handed.

I wish I could post a picture of my gun.....for some reason THR is only allowing the first pic I posted and no more.

 

[StrawHat]

...The J-frame is a close-in weapon....

Only for those who do not practice at longer ranges.

In PPC competition, we regularly shot the J frame out to 50 yards. Many of us practiced with it at longer ranges. My 3" M36, while not as accurate as my "N" frames, was still good at longer ranges.

Kevin

 

[BLU]

Last few years I've qualified using a snubby. 15 yards out, timed shoot. With practice, you can get them in an 8x11 sheet of paper reasonably well. As mentioned, practice is the key. A good set of grips helps. I purchased the Hogue finger groove extended grips. When I draw, I put a 'death grip' on the gun for controllability and with a smooth constant trigger pull focusing on the front site, you can't go wrong. You'll see!

 

[UncleEd]

Painter1212,

But varying the distances, especially out to 15 yards or more you're not developing the agility with the double action only style of shooting.

Why are you cocking the Model 36? You mean thumbing cocking the
hammer on the draw? Terrible idea. Learn for now only double action.
(Most Smith J frames and Ruger LCRs sold are referred to as "hammerless," meaning they are totally internal which means double action only.)

What I'm stressing is hundreds upon hundreds of rounds at 7 yards and under, over and over.

Too many people watch Jerry Miculek of Smith or Hickok45 videos which are good and entertaining but only display a fun/sport way of handling the "belly gun." Jerry hits a target out to 100 yards or more holding a J-frame upside down. Fun stuff. But who is going to confront an attacker at that distance?

 

[Caswell Ranch]

Bainter1212, Make sure you are squeezing with your support hand, strong hand not much and don't put the first joint of your trigger finger on the trigger use the pad.
Another way to think of the grip pressure, grip with your strong hand like you are shaking hands with a woman, with your weak (support) hand like you are shaking hands with a man, this should help even things out and helps stop fishtailing. When you start to press the trigger, press evenly all the way through at the same rate ( don't stage it ), look through the sights at the point of impact (through not over).

Regards, DB

 

[UncleEd]

Caswell Ranch,

Finger pad is good for single action or many autos but he's got to get leverage and the first joint is what's recommended. In speed shooting, one or two handed, if you have time to look "through" the sights and not over them,
bless you.

Let's all remember, the J-frame/LCR is intended for really close ranges, even feet--forget yards. In home defense if that's where you might use it, who has a room more than 10 yards long and will the bad guy stand at one end and you the other. You start getting out to 15 yards or more, especially out of doors, a John Q. Citizen such as yourself may well be considered a murderer.

But again, if most shooters want to become proficient target shooters in pursuit of defensive shooting, bless them all.

 

[Caswell Ranch]

UncleEd,
I look through the sights all the time. pick impact point, eyes stay on impact point, draw and present gun until gun breaks plain of sight (eye line), I know many people use the first joint of the trigger finger but this can lead to the gun fishtailing or milking, use the pad and let the first joint flex backward as the pressure in applied. Just trying to give the guy another view .





Not a J frame but a 3" Ruger, all shots hit center of down zero's 1 1/2" apart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HLR1xmIZLd8