Transfer Fee Increase

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Another thing about the transfer fee, gun dealers vs. online, gun dealers vs walmart, etc.

One of the things some opinions leaning towards the gun dealer seems to assume that the gun dealer is a good gun dealer offering a value added service.

I've had some of the problems some have mentioned, not having the gun in stock, not having a particular package in stock, and yes, while they 'can' order it, again, if they're ordering one-off like that, they're basically charging me for shipping, a non-bulk wholesale plus mark-up, in come cases, and above average mark-up at that, and sales tax on the inflated price.

Anyway, the other thing is that in some cases, the dealer hasn't provided me a whole lot of service yet. I've asked questions, handled some HGs, and sometimes it seems like they can't wait to end the conversation.

If they've had to say more than a couple sentences about a gun, or God forbid explain the difference between 2 or more HGs, they just get tired. So, not only can I not try out the weapon in most stores, unless it happens to be a range, and not only are you $50-$100 more than your online, or in some cases neighboring, competition on a particular weapon, and not only are you going to charge me an inflated transfer fee, but you can't even offer me any real help in choosing the best weapon for me? You expect me to just walk in and buy the first thing you put in my hand? Or you expect me to do all my own research at other ranges, online, or whatever, and then when *I* figure out what I want, then I should come in and buy your overpriced handgun, or pay your transfer fee that's double what someone else is charging a few miles away?

PLEASE remember I'm not referring to ANYONE specifically on this thread, as I know nothing about YOUR businesses individually, but I'm hoping to shed some light on my personal experience in my area, YMMV

Again, I own a business, I have been guilty of giving 'free consulting' to prospective clients, only to have them shop me, and buy something else from somewhere else, sometimes to their own demise, as they didn't make a wise decision. I've felt remorse after spending time w/ someone who didn't buy from me. But what am I supposed to do? Sure I want to qualify my prospects to see if I have a chance at the business, but at the end of the day, it's their decision who they want to do business with, and it's my job to EARN their business.

People buy from people they like, and in my case, I haven't felt much more welcome at some of my 'truly' local shops than at a box store, I haven't received expert consultation, I haven't received much personal attention, I haven't received reasonable pricing or transfer options, so of course I'm going to look other places. I did have a little more luck at a range/dealer across the state line, but they are at a disadvantage to sell me because of geography, as someone stated as a result of the laws. The fact that they were across the line, only offering modest pricing (not aggressive), and that I'd have to pay tax, shipping, and FFL from them to here anyway, it's cost prohibitive for me to buy from them, but I will use their range, and probably buy a shotgun (I can do that over counter) from them, since they helped me. If I lived a stone's throw across the line, maybe I would by their HG.

But the local ones on this side of the line haven't done anything to earn my business. They didn't listen to me, they tried to show me things that didn't meet my request, they tried to show me way overpriced used guns, and showed no price flexibility on the guns I wanted to become remotely competitive. I even called ahead of time, and went there twice to look at some gun cabinets, but each time I got there 'right after the (mysterious) guy locked up the warehouse' so I couldn't see them, mind you this was an hour before closing time on both occasions, and I drove 25 minutes each way to get there.

I'm just saying that in my case, this isn't as simple as $25 difference in an FFL fee, sometimes there are other factors contributing to the customer's dissatisfaction.

Karz
 
IMHO: the correct price is where the dealer has enough people coming in for transfers as he wishes.
 
"Maybe it's free if the store has an employee standing around doing nothing, but if that employee can sell a gun instead of fooling with a transfer the store stands to make more money."
You make an interesting point here, then (quite appropriately) tear it to shreds in your next paragraph. A transfer indeed uses less employee time, and is a certain sale. Unlike in-stock merchandise, which often must be hawked aggressively.

To the store owners and employees willing to turn down FREE MONEY in favor of talking with old farts and then running out to the warehouse to show off yet another item to a prospective buyer, who may in fact simply be window-shopping, I address the following.

Your fixed costs (location, marketing, power, phone, employee salary, etc.) do not increase if you do transfers. They do not decrease if you do not do transfers.
Your sunk costs (licenses, equipment, etc.) are sunk, and will not change whether you sell one old winchester lever-action a month, or transfer fifteen mail order guns a day.
It costs you as much in fixed costs to sit in your shop all day, as it does to sell your entire inventory, as it does to transfer guns all day.
If you are doing a transfer, a customer will not walk in, see you're busy, and walk out rather than buy something, if they had planned on buying in the first place.
Let me make this perfectly clear- if you're not being run ragged by customers every second of every day (in which case, get some employees, you happy fool), you DO have time to do transfers. Not only that, the money you make from doing them is FREE. There are no associated costs with doing transfers, that have not already been sunk into your business licensing and other non-merchandise costs. You pay absolutely nothing to generate that revenue.

Note also, your business is not a car repair shop. Your time is not billed by the hour, it is a fixed cost of your business. Your time will cost the business the same amount, whether you spend it BSing with old farts, dusting cabinets, using the toilet, or making FFL transfers. Which of these activities earns the business money in the immediate term?

Also, I don't know what in blazes some of you think an average gun shop makes on selling guns, but I can tell you right now, it's not much. Competition is tight, and you will only occasionally sell a firearm at list price- far, far below list is standard pricing for firearms in competitive markets. Sometimes they are sold as 'loss leaders' to get people in the door.
I know, it's a little hard to wrap your head around, but a lot of retailers (Wal-Mart for example) will set prices below their cost on -some- items in order to bring in customers, who then buy -other- items whose prices have been padded a bit. Maybe a cleaning kit, or some ammo, whatever; a lot of retailers make their bread and butter on accessories, rather than the readerboard merchandise.
Point is, guns aren't a profitable product a lot of the time. Volume is your friend in that regard, as is repeat sales, and, most importantly, word of mouth advertising; these are what keep a private retailer afloat when they are in competitive economic regions.
When you have the option of getting what represents your profit margin on a low-to-mid priced piece of merchandise with almost no effort, business sense REQUIRES you to take full advantage, if not also competing aggressively ($10 transfers, as an example) for that business.


I shouldn't have to explain this to business owners or their employees, it's common sense based on accounting principles (fixed costs vs. variable costs, etc.) and marketing fundamentals.
People often say that gunshop owners are usually hobbyists first, business owners second, and I guess that bears out. :scrutiny:
 
Charge whatever you want...the market will decide if it is fair or not.
I know of only one FFL within 100 miles of me that charges over $25 and that is a very high end "hunt club" that charges $6.00 for a coffee.
A $50 fee simply means that you just plain don't want to do them...which is just fine...or that you mistakenly believe it will cause people to buy at retail from you instead.
 
Just deserts

When all this red tape came about, the FFLs in my area supported it. I will leave you to guess why.

When their services are utilized, they are astounded!! Their firearms prices are horrid! Their service is questionable. They are anxious to find fault with the other dealer.

I have found it expedient to let my gunsmith (also an FFL) handle the transaction......for $25.00.

The feds have turned us all on one another........some more than others.


PigPen
 
This is what constituted the increase of all transfer fees, let me say to
begin with that we are a Steyr (Rifle) Master Dealer; with means literally
that we have hundreds of Steyr rifles in house, in all assorted calibers.
Steyr seems to be leading the rifle market with their price increases. In
the past year, they hiked their prices considerably on all models in their
line. The largest jump, being their Camo/Stainless Pro-Hunter model. So,
quite naturally we had to "mark up" our prices on these firearms.

What we have run into, is the fact that a firearm I sell for nearly 1K,
CDNN is selling for $699. Persons are buying them in droves, and having
them transferred in to our store. Plus, whether or not its widely known
Steyr can't seem to maintain a U.S. distributorship; as G.S.I. no longer
accepts that responsibility. Also, Steyr located in Austria is the leading
supplier of large caliber assault weapons being sold to Iran; and there-
fore being used by insurgents in Iraq to kill American service personel.
So, all these factors entering into the equation our owners decided to
increase the cost of firearms transfers into our store.
 
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Green Top - U.S. 1 north of Richmond & south of Ashland

They're so busy they don't even do internet sales.

John
Click to expand...

I wonder how I knew that?

Man that place has gotten a lot of my money. :D

I drove down from Fredericksburg to buy a holster just the other day.
 
Check me on this:

Also, Steyr located in Austria is the leading
supplier of large caliber assault weapons being sold to Iran; and there-
fore being used by insurgents in Iraq to kill American service personel.
So, all these factors entering into the equation our owners decided to
increase the cost of firearms transfers into our store.
Click to expand...

So, if this is really your position, it's OK for your shop to support killing American service personal if you get retail for it, but it's a moral outrage if it's discounted...

I think there's a word for that, let me think... Oh yeah, hypocrisy...
 
Att: mrcpu-

With all due respect, you are inserting YOUR own ideas into MY text~!:scrutiny:
I did not say ANY such NONSENSE that you are stating. I simply quoted
what appeared recently in a UK News article; and what has been our
experience with CDNN. :rolleyes: You can believe what you like, but
I'm sorry it won't change our position; as we are of the same opinion
as most Americans- We oppose the killing of U.S. service personel in
all countries; but we do uphold the President of The United
States in his decision to declare "War On Terror". :) ;)

No we DO NOT charge a background check fee; if there is one,
we absorb the cost ourselves. But HOLD everything, as I don't
think there is a fee here in Alabama. Maybe, some of you folks
are gett'in ripped this way by YOUR favorite dealer; I dont know?
 
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You didn't attribute your quote to anybody, how else was I to know that it wasn't your opinion? Your name was attached to it, not anybody else's.
 
Lets see,

When I want a new firearm (three or so a year) I go to my favorite gun store and if they have it in stock I check the price and they tell me if I want to wait a few days they can order one in for me cheaper. This is my choice and sometimes I wait and sometimes I buy what is on the wall right then. Used firearms (two or three a year) I go to the same gun store, get a signed copy of their FFL and send it to the seller and have the seller ship to my local gun store. When the gun comes in the local store calls me, does the paperwork and charges a total of $10.00 for the process. They also have to charge for the background check the state forces on ALL firearm sales a fee of $10.00 so the total is $20.00 but if I bought local from the gun store I'd still have to pay the state fee of $10.00. Needless to say, bullets, powder, primers, scope rings, cleaning stuff, ALL gets bought at this store and I watch their inventory and when I spot a neat used rifle or pistol that I think someone I know would like I tell them about it and encourage them to go look. Most times my matchmaking takes hold and the store makes another sale. I support this store and they seem to appreciate it.
 
That's the dumbest business move I have ever heard of, no offense but really it is.

Consider this. How much profit do you make on that nearly 1k rifle? Ok good, more then 25 bucks so on that end it makes more sense to try and make them buy it from you. However, that is only considering half of the equation. You still have the other guy selling his rifles for 699. You think that people will pay your 300 dollars more to buy from you? Or they will shell out the extra 25 bucks when they can likely buy the rifle for 699 and have the transfer done elsewhere for cheaper. If you do the transfer for 25 you are at least getting them in the door and as others have said that is when you make your sales. Accessories, ammo, cases, scopes, etc. Now you don't have them in and they are buying squat from you. Less profit is better then no profit.

As someone else said many stores sell bread and milk at a loss. My job sells newspapers at cost, so when you figure in our time to stock and sell them we loose money on them to. But where do we make money? On the candy bar they buy, on the pack of smokes, on the bottle of soda and chips they get, etc. So we take a loss on the paper, and make money cause the paper got them in the door. They don't get in the door we don't make money.
 
It does sound like it would be much smarter to order that same rifle for $699 and go somewhere to get a $10 xfer (instead of spending 1k).



(I do think it's a little sleazy to insinuate the killing of Americans is condoned by Ala Dan...)
 
Charge whatever you want...the market will decide if it is fair or not.
Click to expand...

Nail. Head. SMACK!

we are a Steyr (Rifle) Master Dealer...

What we have run into, is the fact that a firearm I sell for nearly 1K,
CDNN is selling for $699.
Click to expand...

Chances are that firearm you sell for $1K that CDNN is selling for $699 cost you more than $699. That's a temporary situation. Steyr Arms liquidated its entire inventory (which means you're not getting any new rifles from them right now).

Steyr is an odd situation because the company is going through some stuff and you guys got the dirty end of the stick here.


At any rate, I point again to the post I quoted above. Its the market that will determine if this is a good idea or not ... in addition to what the rest of the market is charging, if your shop is coming up with innovative "Value Added" stuff then people will pay the $50 even if you're higher than others.
 
Hats off to Mud Puppy and Zundfolge

Many thanks for all the insight fella's, I appreciate the comments very much.
Yes, Steyr firearms will NEVER occupy a space in my safe; for the very reason
I quoted. And YES, they did dump their dirty laundry right in the middle of our
shop. However, we also are a Browning Medallion Dealer and also handle a
complete line of Remington, Weatherby, Ruger, and Tika (Sako), rifles. We
also have a few Benelli centerfire rifles. Plus, we are a full line Beretta dealer
as well. And, I won't even mention my favorite- The Handguns~!:scrutiny: ;) :D

If I slighted or overlooked someone, I apologize as I wrote this in
a hurry. Green Furniture is one I know of, and my hats off to him
as well. Maybe we will see the light, and reduce the transfer fee?
 
Maybe we will see the light, and reduce the transfer fee?
Click to expand...

That would be nice. Getting a nice model 15 IS nice at $300 delivered to FFL, and $315 out the door. At $350, it's OK, not as nice.

Maybe targeting your specific problem with a specific solution might be better for business all around. If a manufacturer refuses to maintain pricing discipline in its go to market strategy, they will KILL your business. I'd refuse Steyr transfers, dump my inventory, never buy another, and beat my distributor rep over the head for the grief he caused me.

As my 11 year old says, "Peace out, man":cool:
 
Here is a question.

How many of you understand the difference between someone who transfers in a Glock 19 and someone who transfers in a first generation Colt SAA?

If someone is coming in to transfer a firearm which is readily available in the store I say they should pay the premium (as well as have their head examined for missing parts).

If someone is coming to transfer a firearm which is an antique or no longer produced then by all means they should be extended a courtesy and charged a reasonable fee for the transaction. $25 or so.

The thing I think most people in this thread are missing is the huge number of people who transfer weapons to FFLs that they could have just bought there at the store and even saved a ton of money!

That's the problem.
 
GreenFurniture,

I will reply to your last post. No I do not need my head examined, I just had my flight physical last month. They examined more than enough things, I assure you..

Gun in question: 4" Blued Ruger GP100 357 Mag.

Local Shop. After going back and forth on price $581 OTD, and I would have to wait. Not in stock.

Bud's Gun Shop: $398. Tack on $25 for shipping and $50 for an obscene FFL fee, and I am at $473. Still saving $108 by ordering and having it shipped.

How am I stupid or needing my head examined. I would pay $500 ($27 more) to have there and now, but not $108 to have to wait just as long..
 
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"How many of you understand the difference between someone who transfers in a Glock 19 and someone who transfers in a first generation Colt SAA?"

Me!!! One of them has good taste in guns. ;)

Meanwhile, I keep reflecting on the fact that the cheapest blackjack game on the Atlantic City Boardwalk on a Friday is $25 a hand. Well, that's what it was the last time I was there - maybe it's higher now. $25 here, $25 there, pretty soon you'll have enough to take a date out for dinner and a movie. Now $25 will hardly buy you 5 cups of whatever it is Starbucks claims is coffee.

John
 
Just asking what your time is worth.

How much time do you have invested in the purchase of the firearm?

Did you send in the FFL? Or did they?

How many miles to this FFL from your starting point (home,office)?

These are all very valid and important questions when figuring out how much you really paid for that transfer.
 
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