Transfering a Receiver as a Pistol instead of a Rifle

[iiibdsiil]

When purchasing an AR receiver (others too, I'm sure), you can have the 4473 filled out as either a pistol or a rifle. I guess there are some differences in the law depending on which way it is transferred and how you can configure it.

So, you buy a receiver, fill out the 4473 as a pistol, and build your pistol. The dealer keeps the copy of the 4473. It's logged in the book and life goes on.

So, how does the ATF know if it was transferred pistol or a rifle? With all the AR pistols out there, they would need to find the distributor, trace it to the gun shop, and send someone out to see the paperwork?

Please tell me I'm missing something here.

 

[nalioth]

They track down and call the transferring FFL and ask.

 

[kd7nqb]

I think its a little more complex than that. I am pretty sure the 4473 now has a spot for a receiver and that if you want it as a pistol it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol. Again I could be wrong.

 

[dogtown tom]

Since October 2008..........

there is no longer any such thing as a pistol lower or rifle lower when transferring a new stripped lower, receiver or a frame.

The most current Form 4473 (revised August 2008), was made available to FFL's in October 2008. One important change was the addition of "Other Firearm" (Frame, receiver, etc) to question #18 TYPE OF FIREARM.

As a new, stripped lower receiver has never had a stock attached it is not a rifle and not a handgun. The FFL will check "Other Firearm". ATF has repeatedly told FFL's to select "Other firearm" for stripped lowers- the FFL cannot decide if it is a pistol lower or a rifle lower. The buyer can do so at a later date.

Be aware that some states make the buyer or FFL determine whether it will be made into a pistol or rifle at the time of transfer.

The manufacturer does not decide whether it is a rifle or pistol lower because it is neither until it is assembled.

 

[clarence222]

All lowers are treated as if they are pistol lowers.
By that I mean you can only buy them in your state of
residence.

 

[Quiet]

dogtown tom is correct.

The ATF 4473 form has "handgun", "long gun" or "other".

A stripped reciever is transfered as a "other".

 

[TexasRifleman]

"Other" is the correct answer. Bare receivers are neither "rifles" nor "handguns" by definition in GCA, they are 'firearms'.

Firearms have the same selling restrictions as handguns, ages etc, but they are not "handguns".

dogtown tom is 100% correct

I think its a little more complex than that. I am pretty sure the 4473 now has a spot for a receiver and that if you want it as a pistol it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol. Again I could be wrong.

Not exactly. If you buy a bare receiver that has never been made into anything, you the buyer can choose to build either a handgun or a rifle out of it. That's the easy part.

Where it gets weird is if you change your mind later. According to ATF's interpretations, if you make it into a rifle originally you can NEVER make it into a handgun, that would be making an NFA item in their view. If you make it into a handgun you can later convert it into a rifle, but you can't convert it back since again you'd be making an SBR by removing the stock. Now, the Supreme Court has sort of disagreed with this in Thompson, but ATF continues to ignore that ruling for the most part so be very careful.

 

[daskro]

What I'm interested to know is the ATF's interpretation on whether a transfer of a Receiver by a ffl to an out of state resident is legal considering a receiver can be made into a handgun.

 

[nalioth]

What I'm interested to know is the ATF's interpretation on whether a transfer of a Receiver by a ffl to an out of state resident is legal considering a receiver can be made into a handgun.

Legal.

A receiver is not a handgun.

 

[waterhouse]

Legal.

A receiver is not a handgun.

I'll have to look up the law, but I think not legal. The law typically doesn't mention handguns, it mentions firearms and then exempts rifles and shotguns from some sections. So it doesn't say "this section only applies to handguns." It says "This section applies to all firearms except rifles and shotguns." Receivers are not rifles or shotguns.


Rifles and shotguns may be transferred to non residents (if not barred by some state law) and people over 18 years of age. The receiver is neither a rifle nor a shotgun (nor a pistol, for that matter), so it can only be transferred to residents of the state over 21 years of age.

18 USC 922(b)(1)

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver -
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is
other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or
rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable
cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

18USC 922(b)(3):
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has
reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a
place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of
business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not
apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a
resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's
place of business is located if the transferee meets in person
with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale,
delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of
sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer
or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph,
in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual
knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both
States)

 

[daskro]

What's interesting is after calling up a few different dealers to see if they'd facilitate an out of state receiver transfer, some said it was illegal and they wouldn't do it, others said it was legal and they would do it.

 

[waterhouse]

Some dealers have a better understanding of the law than others, just like cops, lawyers, and any other profession that deals with the law.

I have been wrong about gun laws many times. Thankfully (to my knowledge) it has been in intellectual debates and not lead to having handcuffs slapped on.

It also may have just been a misunderstanding. If you called me and said "can you handle an out of state receiver transfer?" I'd say yes, with the assumption that the receiver was coming from out of state to be transferred to a TX state resident.

 

[daskro]

It very well may be different understandings of the law. For the dealers I called I specifically stated I was an out of state resident, so I don't think it was a miscommunication.

 

[Bubbles]

What's interesting is after calling up a few different dealers to see if they'd facilitate an out of state receiver transfer, some said it was illegal and they wouldn't do it, others said it was legal and they would do it.

The ones who said they would do it need to pay more attention to their mail.

ATF - Open Letter to FFL's July 7, 2009

 

[iiibdsiil]

So, it's up to the purchaser to decide if it's going to be a pistol or rifle? Therefore, unless there was evidence of it being a pistol at one point, it would be impossible to prove otherwise?

I'm not saying I'm going to do it, I'm just curious as to how this all works. Obviously it's different than I originally thought.