Trap Range Venting

[Norton]

Just returned from PGC and had a couple of things that happened today that just got to me and that's saying a lot....since it takes a lot to get under my skin.

Situation 1: Spot77 and I had already run two rounds of trap and I was feeling pretty good about my shooting, having run around 19 on one round and 21 on the other.

As we got ready to shoot the third round a gentleman came along and joined us. Older fella, nice Beretta semi-auto. He did OK, I think I was right there with him....a point of pride for me whenever I shoot as well with my 870 as the guys with the high price guns.

As we finished up and went back up to the benches, we got to talking about guns, as we shooters tend to do. And then here it comes......

The "you know, that 870 really isn't meant to shoot trap with and if you just had a gun designed for trap and fit you better you'd shoot better" spiel that I get about every 3rd time out at the range.

Furthermore we take it another step and say "you'll wear that field gun out shooting trap as it's not designed for it.....just stamped sheet metal, not alloy like a good trap gun".

Rant mode on: Fine....your gun cost between 10 and 20 times what my Remington 870 and you may over the course of 5 rounds of trap average one or two clays over me. Why can't you trap snobs get it through your head that I LIKE MY 870 and I WANT TO BECOME PROFICIENT WITH MY 870.

It's not the glasses, the vest, the fancy shell bag or even the gun. It's the shooter darnit.....

I'm a good student (just ask Dave McCracken) and I will bleed you dry for the benefit of your experience. You want to correct my stance, my pull, my cheek weld? Fine....I want to learn......but don't stand there and tell me that my gun just doesn't stack up for the game.

And....I doubt that my 870 is going to wear out shooting light target loads anytime in the next 20 years.

OK.....I feel better about getting this off my shoulders.....deep breath, "Kumbaya, my Lord.....Kumbaya....." "Ommmmmmmmmm"

 

[Norton]

Situation 2: And I will start off by saying that if I am in the wrong let me know and I will change my flawed ways

We left the range where the above scenario happened and schlepped on down to the wobble trap range to try a little something different.

We ended up having a full field of 5 (which I actually like as it gives me more time between shots) and I proceeded as I always do.

My routine for a shot:

1. Bolt open, shell in open chamber
2. Close bolt, aim....call "pull" take shot
3. Slowly rack bolt and remove spent hull and put in bag....

this is where the issue starts.....

4. Shell in open chamber
5. I rest the butt of the gun on my shell bag belt to take the pressure off of my arms for a moment so I can relax. Barrel up, probably a 20 degree angle towards range.....but mostly up.
6 Finger is indexed along receiver
7. On my turn, I close bolt, mount gun and shoot.

After my first shot on the 5th station (after 21st shot) the range officer comes over and gives me an ear full about my needing to point the barrel straight down range or at the ground in front of me between shots.

I am a fanatic about range safety......and I have been shooting at this range in this manner for well over a year without a RO ever even giving me a glance as to muzzle discipline. It's not as if I swept the line or had the barrel point backwards across my shoulder as I see people walking around the property all of the time.

Meanwhile two ranges up...this same RO rides by a party where a boyfriend/girlfriend combo are sharing a shotgun back and forth....another guy has his muzzle resting on his toe. Furthermore....every time the young lady shoots, she blows her head phones off, hands the BF the gun who then proceeds to shoot before she can replace her ear protection.:banghead:

I was so PO'd after this that I just packed up and went home.....

I know....their range, their rules.....but to my way of thinking, to stop a round in progress should be for a flagrant safety violation that is in imminent danger of causing injury. The RO, if he had an issue, could have just said something after the round (only 4 more shots).

So....am I in the wrong to have the barrel mostly up but still biased towards the down range side?

If I am....I will have to change my whole trap routine

 

[theCZ]

I definately know where you are coming from with the 870. I don't own one, but I shoot a 9mm for IPSC, and everyone tells me how I should have a 1911 45. Sure, I'll get a 1911 someday, but after I start winning with my CZ75 in production class. I'm sorry if I don't need a custom pistol to shoot great.

Issue 2:
Hmm, I guess I've never really seen anyone pointing their gun like you are talking about, or maybe I am just not visualizing it correctly. I usually do the same thing, but with my gun at a slight angle down. At the place I do my trap league though, we don't have range officers, your teamates will tell you if you are doing something wrong.

 

[Dave McCracken]

As for the first scenario, a little more practice will have you beating that self same guy with his overpriced auto. That's the best revenge.

The TB's nearing 17K since I got it, and Heaven knows how may shells through it before. Does shuck nice and slick, but no signs of wearing out.

As for the last, I usually prop the butt on my strong side hip pointing up. Nobody has seen fit to chide me about it.

Don't let idiots get to you, it'll take up all your time and leave you crochety like me.....

 

[Norton]

theCZ,

Re: Equipment......If these guys were beating me by 8-10 clays, I'd say that they had a point. The last guy that gave me this spiel about "stock doesn't fit, comb isn't right for trap, etc, etc" had just finished shooting about a 9 or 10 while I had a 21 or 22 (very good for me).

Ironically, people give me opposite grief for having an HK USP saying that I'm a snob :banghead: In fact, I only bought the gun because it shot well for me.....I don't begrudge anyone who has an inexpensive firearm if it works for them.

RE: Rules....never had an issue there until today with this one particular RO....the other guys have never said a word to me. I'll talk to the one guy I know pretty well the next time I go out.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Trap shooting is a gentleman's game and if you can't afford.........

Just kidding. Trap shooters don't even like each other, in my experience. Maybe you could compromise and get the little tooled leather belt pouch, though.

 

[hillbilly]

Norton, the RO sounds like a selectively-eforcing butthead.

I'll bet the boyfriend/girlfriend combo were related to him somehow.

As for the rich old farts giving you a hard time, here is my serious recommendation.

1) Get some various colors of Krylon spray paint and give your Rem 870 a homemade "turkey hunting" camo job.

2) Get some denim overalls.

3) Get a ratty "CAT" or "John Deere" or other farm equipment or NASCAR ball cap.

4) Develop the annoying habit of hollering "YEEEEEEE-HAW" every time you bust a clay bird. Mix in a few "Whew Doggies" and "Ain't that Purty" or "Bless my Cats" just for effect.

5) Politely ask all rich old farts gving you equipment advice to go attempt a certain sex act with a fence-post that still has the barbed wire attached to it. Always try to time that polite suggestion to happen miliseconds after you blast another clay bird to dust and always make sure you deliver the line with a very gracious grin, and maybe even a wink.

But that's just what an old redneck hillbilly thinks you should do.

hillbilly

 

[Norton]

RileyMc,

The last thing I've ever been accused of being is a gentleman

I was thinking about the next time going in black BDUs, a balaclava, Doc Marten boots and instead of yelling "pull" saying "get some"

 

[Norton]

Dave,

I told that fella that I knew a very proficient trap shooter who had tens of thousands through an 870 and seemed to be doing very well with it

To each his own on equipment choices.....

 

[Norton]

hillbilly,

You and I think alike.....

I used to have the same problem playing basketball.......I'm 6'7" but think about that movie "White Men Can't Jump".

The, ahem, gentlemen at the local courts would talk a lot of junk to me until I started slamming the ball in the hoop and then rejecting their shots

 

[dfaugh]

When I was young

I used to shoot 98-99% on the trap range(No BS...shot 100 birds most every weekend)...With a 20 gauge Mossberg 500 field gun. Funny thing, no one EVER mentioned the fact that I "shouldn't be able to do that" with that gun. We left the range laughing many a time, at the frustration of the guys with their "fancy" trap guns...What made it worse was that I was 15 at the time...Wish I could shoot like that today ....

 

[Ed3]

You are not alone! My son and I joined an instructor and his student for a round of skeet at Bull Run. Instructor was pretty vocal about my "hunting gun" (Win 1300 pump - though I don't hunt) and offered some free advice to my son about pointing his gun too far back to the house. We both outshot him, the instructor, in the wind. The excuses were flying! A good time was had by all! My wife did just surprise me with an O/U sporting for Xmas so I may just have to develop an "attitude." "Excuse me, do you have any grey poupon?"

Ed

 

[Norton]

Heh heh.....I told the wife about today's episode and she suggested that if I really wanted to get under thier skin to ask if they make clays in United Nations blue so that I can get some practice in before the invasion

 

[wanderinwalker]

Norton, do your best to ignore them or blend into their selectively-viewed little world. You'll continue to do well and improve.

My experience is from Highpower. I showed up as the new kid at the first match in May, 2004. Never fired full-course before, most of my gear was still newish enough to give it away. I got a few looks and helpful hints. Ignored the people trying to "Go easy on the new guy." (Results) Number 4 is me. At least everybody over at NFGA is nice.

So yes, continue to do as you do. And remember that the "stamped steel" field-gun 870 IS machined. If it is an Express, it just ain't finished as purty as the Wingmasters, but they are hell for stout. Good luck and good shooting, and a Happy New Years!

 

[hillbilly]

Norton, I don't mean to highjack a thread, but your story does remind me of something that happened to me.

Before he passed away, my father-in-law loved to camp and fish at Roaring River, Missouri. Roaring River is very much a super-touristy pay-for-fish stocked trout stream.

I mean that little stretch of water is stocked every single day during the season.

My father-in-law was a good man, but a suburban city boy, and to him, camping in an RV a few hundred feet away from a stocked trout stream lined with sidewalks was truly a wilderness adventure.

I started backwoods fishing with a cane pole when I was four years old.

My father-in-law bought me the Roaring River permit for one camping trip, and insisted I fish with him.

My rod was a crappie or light bass rod style that I picked up at a pawn shop.

My tackle box was a big yard-sale special that contained everything from monster treble hooks for snagging gar, to big river catfish rigs, to jerk baits and plastic worms down to the smallest trout jigs I bought just for the trip to Roaring River.

Like I said, I've been fishing since I was four, and if it's got fins, swims in fresh water, and can be hooked, I've probably caught it at least once over the years.

At the stream, I wore jean cutoffs, a t-shirt, and a camo boonie hat.

A couple of yahoos in complete Cabelas gear--hats, vests, waders with felt soles, wearable fly boxes, and Orvis fly rods stood a few feet down from me on the stream.

What a couple of idiots.....wearing and using several thousand dollars worth of fly-fishing gear on a stocked pay-for-fish tourist stream.

But they kept looking at me, and making loud comments about "There's probably not a whole lot of BASS in this stream....." or even less subtle coments like "Doesn't that guy over there in the boonie hat know this is a TROUT stream????????"

I limited out in about 30 minutes with my little black jig on my "bass rod."

I made darn sure to walk right past them, and stop and smile at them as I hoisted my stringer of farm-raised, paid-for trout in their faces.

Neither one of them had had so much as a nibble, and neither had the guts or any other required part of anatomy to so much as whimper at me as I dripped water and trout slime on their empty creels sitting on the bank.

Success is the sweetest revenge.

hillbilly

 

[oneshooter]

I generally get wierd looks when I shoot skeet with my 87 Winchester lever action. Average 22 with black powder handloads. LOTS of smoke(keeps the skeeters away).

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[P95Carry]

Paul - let me say just this .... a**holes are not regional in their occurrence. Trust me - I have been this road!!

Sympathies dude!!

 

[sm]

#1
Some folks mean well, it is not what they say , instead how they say it.
Then again the easiest way to build up one's self esteem - is to put someone else down.

Honest - some folks do not realize they do this.

#2

WELL...every range has "IT'S" rules. I quit shooting at one range because the actually said "no loaded firearms or mags in vehicle". I mean the "Range Runner" did not want my CCW , any mags or speedloaders - loaded up in vehicles - and I was shooting Skeet. Should have heard the range rules.

Contrast: Many ranges , though very safety minded, had common sense. Now some asked a new person be "sponsored" and "probationary" time period. Once a person was " known" in the circle of shooters, One could vouch for a known safe shooter visiting a new shooter.

Many ranges allowed us with "gun broke" on two barreled , to rest the muzzle on our toe, many wore / wear a leather "toe" on one shoe to rest the muzzle. OR , allow the butt to rest on foot , with muzzle up, breedh open on a repeater.

Never had , or saw an accident with this allowed. We RO'd / SO'd each other.

We had permission from the clubs to do this tho'

 

[nico]

Norton, as for situation #1, my dad and I have had that happen before. We use an SBE and SX2 field model respectively and have only really been given attitudes about our choices once or twice, but it's not all that unusual to get the "that's a nice hunting gun, but once you get more experience you'll want to step up to a real trap gun that can handle all those rounds" comments before. I can see how a "proper" trap gun might help improve your scores, but I see no reason to spend thousands of dollars on a gun that is only good for trap when I only shoot recreationally.

About situation #2, my dad and I both hold our guns in what I guess would be considered a low mount (right hand on pistol grip, finger off trigger, left hand under forend, bolt open, safety on) and have never been given any flak about it by an RO.

 

[Rupestris]

4) Develop the annoying habit of hollering "YEEEEEEE-HAW" every time you bust a clay bird. Mix in a few "Whew Doggies" and "Ain't that Purty" or "Bless my Cats" just for effect.

Don't forget Doc Hilidays (Val Kilmer) line from Tombstone..." Isn't that a daisy?"

 

[Dave McCracken]

Some years ago.Norton, I was waiting to shoot at PGC with Steve Hawkins, the ATA Hall Of Famer and a buddy of his with a Ljutic. Being new to trap, I asked for advice.

Steve told me to shoot a bit sooner, since wind and distance can introduce variables.

His friend, in a nice way, suggested I get a "Real" trap gun. He stated 870s were OK for starting off, but a "Real" trap gun would boost my scores.

You can see this coming. I ran them, as did Steve. The friend dropped a couple and took it well when I thanked him for his excellent advice.

Hmm, Ljutic ( Pronounced Lootik) for a couple grand. 870 TB, $400 or so. Smug look on my face, priceless.....

 

[Norton]

As far as the "world's leading authority syndrome"....I'm sure the man did not intend any harm, in fact he let me handle the Beretta (and it WAS nice). However, what it reinforces to me is the importance of how we interact with each other as shooters, particularly if there is a chance that the other person is a novice.

Had I run into this feller my first time out rather than Dave McCracken, I may have packed the whole clays thing in for good and that 870 and it's cousin the 500 would be safe queens full time.

When we saw that young lady getting her ears literally blown off of her head yesterday, I have to admit that my first evil reaction was to chuckle a bit since I had never seen that happen. But, we were 50 yards behind her and would have never done that up on the line.

My second reaction was to go into teacher mode (since I am a teacher ) and want to go up there and show her how to hold the blasted thing so that it wouldn;t do that every time she shot. Since none of the 4 guys she was shooting with felt inclined to do so......

Moral of the story....treat other shooters the way that you want to be treated.

Happy New Year's my friends!

 

[fecmech]

I think there was (is) a fellow by the name of Rudy Etchen (sp?) who is a trap champion and uses an 870 pretty much exclusively. IIRC he has put about a gazillon rounds thru 1 870. Enjoy your 870 they are great guns. Happy new year. Nick

 

[JohnBT]

"Neither one of them had had so much as a nibble"

Feel free to use my buddy's line... "So, what are you fishing for?"

John