Triggers for ar

[Everready73]

Here is the link http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-drop-in-trigger-roundup/

 

[Charliefrank]

Not really looking for a tack driver, as this a a carbine. Which will be handy for toting through the woods. Just a descent trigger, as the one that came in it is horrendous.

 

[z7]

Now is a great time to find the geissele g2s trigger for cheap, I got mine in the spring for $129

It is a good 2 stage that helps with every kind of shooting but isn’t too light for a woods carbine and not too expensive either

 

[Charliefrank]

Here is the link http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-drop-in-trigger-roundup/

Thank you, very informative. Excellent

 

[imashooter]

Two-stage trigger; think Glock-like. The Timney 3lb Competition is excellent yet very safe. Very little if any take up and very minimum reset. Comes in two styles; flat or nearly flat trigger. I have one on my long range AR and really like it. Buttery-smooth, consistent light pull. Mine actually measures to around 2.8lbs with both a digital and manual pull gauge. Mine is the nearly flat and I plan on getting the flat model for another AR.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I think best bang for the buck would be to get a good deal on a Larue MBT. Many people are saying they like them more than a Geissele SSA.

I've had good experiences with the Geissele SSA, the RRA 2-stage varimint/match trigger, and currently am liking the ALG Advanced Combat Trigger (ACT) a lot for a mil-spec style trigger. It's the best I've ever felt for a single stage.

 

[cdb1]

I prefer single stage and like my Timney 3 lb. AR trigger.

 

[Charliefrank]

I prefer single stage and like my Timney 3 lb. AR trigger.

As do I. I haven't decided on brand yet, although I have used Timney in past rifle builds. All bolt actions up to this point.

 

[Varminterror]

Is it possible to get a single stage trigger without a ton of take up? More like the trigger on a good bolt action I guess.

Not really looking for a tack driver, as this a a carbine. Which will be handy for toting through the woods.

The answer to the first of your questions above is, "yes," but not if you are looking for a woods rifle. The $13.38 AR trigger job would meet your needs (JP yellow spring kit for $13 plus 38c for a 1/4-28 x 1/2" plug screw), however, it will leave you with a very short sear engagement depth, meaning the trigger isn't ideal for a woods rifle. You CAN make an AR have a "glass rod" trigger, even with mil-spec trigger components, but it won't have enough sear engagement to be safe for carrying. You'll want 25-30thou sear engagement in a hunting/woods AR, which generally is about half of the factory engagement depth.

Mind you, this is NOT take up - it's creep. Take up stops at the wall. Creep doesn't. Milspec triggers have a lot of creep, and feel very heavy through the travel because of the positive sear angle (you're fighting the hammer spring with the trigger, not just fighting friction). There are products out there with neutral sear angles, and these do get a guy a lot closer to a bolt action trigger without sacrificing as much sear depth.

IF you shoot a polymer striker fired pistol, some of their triggers are very 2-stage like.

Two-stage trigger; think Glock-like

I would agree this sentiment is true for certain models, like the Rock River triggers, however, it's not apt for the Geiselle's or Bushmaster NM trigger. Glock triggers, and their ilk, have a very light take up, followed by a heavy wall for the break. As I mentioned in my post above, this is how the RRA triggers feel. To me, it's more of a field trigger in that way, it lets you get a feel of the trigger, with positive feedback for the sear break. You'll see something like 1-2lbs up front, with a 2-4lb wall. The Geiselle and Bushmaster triggers are not so. Depending on spring and setting used, for example, in my Service Rifles, I have a 4lb take up with a 1/2lb break. I don't really want to feel the wall, just a surprise break. It's difficult to manage standing without a shooting jacket, and is much better suited for prone or benchrest shooting. I can spring the Geiselle up heavier, but the break is always lighter than the take up. Similarly, I can spring a mil-spec trigger to hit the same total weight as any of these 2 stage triggers, but the precision on break likely won't be as good. Your personal preference and your application will dictate which manner you prefer.

 

[imashooter]

Yeah, I should have not generalized. Regardless where the heavier pull is on a 2-stage, there's that pre-travel which I personally can't stand. With that said, there are certainly those who greatly prefer a 2-stage and I respect that; I'm just not one of them. Didn't dare mention my Hiperfire 24C which consistently tests at a spit over 1.5lbs live-fired. Now that thing is waaay too much fun. Thought I might get banned for mentioning that one.

 

[<*(((><]

Another vote for LaRue MBT $99 right now on their website.

 

[RussellC]

Geiselle HS NM and G2S-E, Bushmaster NM, Rock River NM or Varminter. Those are the only 3 which get my money. Lots of other good ones out there, but in their price points, these 3 brands do what I want.

The only downside, for me, with the RRA NM or Varminter triggers is the fact they are upside down compared to these others. The RRA has a light primary with a heavy break, whereas the others are a heavier primary take up with a very light break. I prefer the light break type.

Agree, Geiselle gets my money...I like the second stage light break "rightside up" configuration.

Russellc

 

[Tirod]

A good trigger with almost no creep or slack is nice to have. Note most military triggers do not conform to that "ideal" notion, and combat grade triggers seem to get the job done quite well regardless. When you have shot one for a while, you learn how much to prestage the travel and stop where it then breaks, which usually has a small "wall" in the pressure to signify it's near release.

The other component is trigger pull weight - which for over a century on a field rifle - or military - has bee six pounds. With the expansion of CCW most carry pistols are a minimum 6 pounds, too. That weight was determined to be the threshold level that prevents a lot of negligent discharges and in field conditions walking over rough terrain with friends or team members that is a serious consideration.

What too many adopt is the notion that if a stationary range target trigger can contribute to being more accurate, then it must be "better," and so the first thing done is to drop the trigger weight down to negligent levels of pull. Secondly, the travel is reduced as much as possible, until someone gets to the point where the trigger is nearly 2.5 pounds and less than 1/8". They believe they are well equipped, but in reality they have taken a competition trigger and applied it to tactical/field conditions. Go back and look at the Giselle offerings - there is a product specifically for that use, with 6 pound pull.

I'd say if you are shooting hundreds of rounds a week you can do as you like, but if it's a few times a year, strongly reconsider using a light target trigger meant for stationary precision shooting on a gun you are lugging overland in pursuit of game. Nobody puts a NASCAR race carburetor to idle over heavy rocks in their 4WD, nor did Richard Petty run on large offroad 38" Thornbirds in his Plymouth. And nobody seems to use 60 round drum mags in Olympic shooting. There seems to be a lack of perspective about cross fertilizing the AR platform with all sorts of gear unsuitable for it's intended purpose. Triggers are one of those things. Kinda like the guy who was carrying a 3.5" barreled 1911 with target sights, extended controls, etc deep concealed at his work place. Not so much - it's a bit snaggy and not suited.

My 6.8 lower came with an adjustable take up screw and it turned a pretty bad aftermarket "GI" trigger into a good one, the AR pistol got an Anderson LPK which actually exceeds it in feel. It came with stainless parts. Good triggers in the AR can be had, but you don't need to spend $$ on them and it's questionable why someone would want a super light and no takeup trigger for stumbling over rough terrain after game which can and is aggressive.

 

[Charliefrank]

Good points. I never have a trigger light enough to compromise the firearms safety. Nor do I ever have my finger in the trigger guard until I'm aiming at my intended target. Good points just the same though.

 

[imashooter]

Firearm safety is a very simple process. keep your finger away from trigger unless prepared to discharge. They even instructed that in boot camp regardless of those heavy trigger pulls. But I agree with some; if you don't trust yourself to exercise good discipline, go extra heavy.

 

[Walkalong]

I am one of the ones that had their RRA NM trigger start double tapping on them. I wonder if they got that fixed. Anyway, tossed it in the trash and bought another brand trigger.

My GS 2 is really nice. My LaRue I can wait trigger is nice. My ACT trigger is nice and good bang for the buck. My Timney is OK, light, but some creep and the let off is hard to predict.

 

[hdwhit]

Charliefrank wrote:
Bought a Ruger 556. ... Problem is the horrendous trigger.

Unless you're just intending to spend money on the rifle, I would first suggest you try what Ramone said in Post # 17. You have nothing to lose but a little time and you could save a lot of money.

Ramone wrote:
I've greatly improved stock out of the box triggers by simply cleaning the edges of the bearing surfaces with a stone, and cleaning and lubing.

I've also had good luck polishing the bearing surfaces of the components of the trigger group with lapping compound or jeweler's rouge.

 

[1911 guy]

AIM Surplus had the ALG Defense triggers on sale with free shipping last week. Forty bucks. It eliminates a lot of the bad ju-ju (gritty feeling, excessive take up and over-travel). It's a standard 6 Lb pull but feels much lighter. There is a very noticeable difference. Enough so that when my Dad tried the trigger on mine, he immediately whipped out his smartphone and ordered one online.

It's not a match trigger, it doesn't claim to be. But it's a vast improvement for a fraction of the cost.

 

[greyling22]

Run the set screw up the grip, then clip the passenger side leg of the hammer spring off. You may get to an acceptable trigger without spending a lot of money. If you get in a bind pm me and I'll walk you through timing the disconnector. Or search for my posts in the subject.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I’ve tried a few different AR triggers, and have settled on the Geissele SSA, or SD-C as my go to trigger for a carbine. The SSA-E and SD-E are both nice in a heavier rifle length gas AR but I have reservations about such a light 3.5lb trigger on a lighter weight carbine with more recoil and more forward bounce as the BCG goes into battery. I had a Geissele SD-3G with a 3.5lb trigger in my Colt M4A1 SOCOM II for awhile and the short reset and light trigger pull resulted in unintentional double taps.

The slightly heavier SSA or SD-C give a final break about 1lb heavier than the SSA for a total of about 4.5lbs. The flat faced SD-C feels lighter than that particularly on the 2nd stage break of about 2lbs. All while being very forgiving and safe.

I ran a carbine with the SD-C in a Pat McNamara class last year that had us all running around with loaded weapons, running carbine to sidearm transitions, and shooting while fatigued, breathing hard, and under stress. The Geissele SD-C was never a hindrance while shooting groups, or focusing on precision shots. Geissele is just so smooth on the 1st stage, and the 2nd stage is nice and clean but not too brittle that it’s easy to shoot well. For go fast drills running the gun hard it’s easy to just press through the trigger like it has a long smooth rolling break. The 2 stage aspect of the trigger is a big advantage in my mind for this type of activity because the trigger gives you feedback as you take up slack under stress before you get to the wall of the 2nd stage break.

Apparently US SOCOM agrees because the SSF select fire version of the SSA at a 4.5lb total pull weight is their go to trigger and is the only aftermarket trigger I know of safety and function certified by the US Navy Crane Surface Warfare Center.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Run the set screw up the grip, then clip the passenger side leg of the hammer spring off. You may get to an acceptable trigger without spending a lot of money. If you get in a bind pm me and I'll walk you through timing the disconnector. Or search for my posts in the subject.

If you want poor lock time and potentially questionable ignition that’s a great idea. Otherwise clipping a leg off your hammer spring is pants on head retarded.

 

[ponchh]

For about 60 bucks the ALG Defense Combat (act) is a very good 5 to 6 lb trigger. Short take up and nice break, the reset is a touch long but not a deal breaker. I load with Winchester primers which let's me use JP springs to lighten the pull.

 

[MistWolf]

...my personal opinion is that the standard AR FCG is pretty good, although some examples are pretty crappy. A 'blueprinted' AR FCG will come in around 5 lbs, and has a good feel to it. I've greatly improved stock out of the box triggers by simply cleaning the edges of the bearing surfaces with a stone, and cleaning and lubing.

I will second this with an added caution about stoning anything on an AR trigger. Some standard AR triggers have a very thin case hardening. Once the case hardening is removed, the softer steel underneath will rapidly wear leading to an unsafe trigger. A very light touch at the edges shouldn't hurt anything, but again, be cautious and use a light hand.

Firearm safety is a very simple process. keep your finger away from trigger unless prepared to discharge. They even instructed that in boot camp regardless of those heavy trigger pulls. But I agree with some; if you don't trust yourself to exercise good discipline, go extra heavy.

It's not just about not being able to "trust yourself to exercise good discipline". It's about breaking the shot when you decide to under all field conditions, including when cold, fatigued, breathing hard after exertion and after breakfast has left the house, among others.

Run the set screw up the grip, then clip the passenger side leg of the hammer spring off. You may get to an acceptable trigger without spending a lot of money. If you get in a bind pm me and I'll walk you through timing the disconnector. Or search for my posts in the subject.

If you want poor lock time and potentially questionable ignition that’s a great idea.

Coal Dragger is right. Another fact to consider is that the act of cocking the hammer helps to control carrier speed.

Using a set screw to reduce take up shortens the sear engagement, something that some folks have excoriated the Remington trigger for. Now, you're recommending making the same change to the trigger of a self-loading rifle. Let that sink in for a moment.

For about 60 bucks the ALG Defense Combat (act) is a very good 5 to 6 lb trigger. Short take up and nice break, the reset is a touch long but not a deal breaker. I load with Winchester primers which let's me use JP springs to lighten the pull.

The ACT is a good trigger. It's made to the same spec as the standard AR trigger, but the tolerances and manufacturing processes are kept tightly controlled. It gives the same pull as the standard trigger, but the improved quality control makes it more consistent.

 

[imashooter]

I've been in the worst of conditions, extremes to extremes. My lightest was 4.0lbs on a mil-spec fire-control group worked over by one of our armorers. All was well. Assuming the OP ain't deploying for combat, I doubt if those conditions will ever apply. Go light young man, go light. Though I've never experienced the ALG/ACT, I've read enough user evals to say it would be hard to beat at it's regular price and especially when it's on sale. Regarding assorted mil-spec factory triggers, I find no consistency. Have seen them gritty, not gritty 4 1/2lbs to pushing 9.0lbs, decent pre-travel to insanely stupid pre-travel, very acceptable reset to terrible, and everything in between. A "fluff and a buff" can work wonders at times.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I snagged a POF 4.5# single stage (comes with anti-rotation pins) for around $115 on sale. I like single stage and the reset is absurdly short.

They also make a 3.5# one but it has the straight trigger. Just another option.