This Mon. at 2:00 in the afternoon in broad daylight my daughter was robbed at the mall at knife point. She works at one of the stores in this mall. I work in armed security. I currently guard a bank daily. I have a current Act235 license in Pa. required in my job, and I also have a personal CCW permit. I go intoday to escort my daughter out to her car, and the mall security tells me I can't be in the mall with my firearm. I explain to them that I have an Act 235 license and a personal CCW I was in uniform as I was coming from work. Act 235 allows carry to work,at work and from work legally. Personal CCW allows carry anywhere in the state except for federal instututions,schools, and detention centers. Does anyone here have knowledge in this matter.
Trouble at the mall with my firearm
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Salmoneye
Member
Private property?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
The property owner can always refuse you admittance and trespass you if you refuse to leave.
I assume you're carrying openly, in your work uniform?
Carrying concealed, there's little they can do about it, unless they know. You are not, by law, required to obey private property "gunbuster" signs, but if you are asked to leave (or not enter) you must do so. Your license does not give you immunity from trespass charges.
I'm sorry for your daughter's troubles and I'm glad she's ok!
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, posting it has no meaning under PA law. You do not have to obey signs.
However, you DO have to obey a direct request to leave (or not to enter). If you do not obey you can be charged with trespassing (armed) and that's not good.
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
Too bad the bad guys dont read signs and the mall security wasnt as pro-active with them....
Shows what a sham the rules are....
Shows what a sham the rules are....
Sam, thanks for clarifying that. In Minnesota it needs to be posted somewhere near the entrance. Even if you do carry somewhere thats posted its banned say in a grocery store, the fine isn't very much and you won't be in much trouble, from what i understand. Now if its a school or government center that's a different story as it is anywhere in the U.S.
Steve in PA
Member
What Sam said.
Carry concealed, and no one knows.
Carry concealed, and no one knows.
doc2rn
Member
It just goes to show ya how the rules only apply to honnest folk. Criminals dont care about the privledges we have stripped away.
Centurian22
Member
Sounds like an establishment that I would no longer patronize! Sorry to hear of your daughter's encounter and sorry she must work in such a narrow minded and misled environment!
firesky101
Member
Glad your daughter is ok. I wish you had replied "I see, and do you have a similar policy on knives. If so this is just a big misunderstanding, my daughter obviously did not get robbed on your watch." I understand you were likely very flustered, as I would have been if something similar happened, but sometimes you just want to give people a "here's your sign" moment.
Murphy4570
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Your daughter needs to quit her job NOW, and find somewhere safer to work.
Rob G
Member
Unfortunately ACT 235 is not at all relevant in this situation. What is relelvant is that the mall is considered private property and they're allowed to ask you to leave if they choose to. Next time leave the uniform at home and carry concealed. You shouldn't have any problems then.
silversport
Member
usually carrying to work, at work and home from work would not allow you to carry to escort your daughter to her car...that said, I know what I'd do and I have always found if you wear a coat or an over shirt, many will not see you have a firearm on...good luck and sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter...
Bill
Bill
smalls
Member
It sucks, but there's really nothing you can do about it. They have the right to not let you on their property for any reason. You can make not so high road comments about them not protecting your daughter to them, but that won't do much, either.
Give her some pepper spray and teach her how to use it, until she can find a new job. I'm glad she's alright.
Sitting in the parking lot until the employees start to leave the mall is a common criminal tactic. My ex worked at every store imaginable in the mall, and she had new stories every week about people getting robbed on their way out to their car.
Give her some pepper spray and teach her how to use it, until she can find a new job. I'm glad she's alright.
Sitting in the parking lot until the employees start to leave the mall is a common criminal tactic. My ex worked at every store imaginable in the mall, and she had new stories every week about people getting robbed on their way out to their car.
paramedic70002
Member
Good thing they stopped you from robbing the store while escorting your daughter. Let me guess, they were unarmed? Wait I'm on a roll, they had no idea your daughter was being robbed until she reported it?
I would demand a security gaurd escorts her to you, either in the parking lot or ouside the main entrance. If they aren't allowing you to protect her , after such an incident and they refuse to do it themselves, you may have a good lawsuit. The threat of such, or going to the local newspaper,"or the mention of it" may get them to change their position. The last thing a mall wants is bad publicity. Newspapers eat this sort of human interest story up. a Headline that said local girl robbed at knifepoint at -- Mall, is sure to get a reaction. I think you need to speak to the management and bypass the Guard.
TITAN308
Member
Georgia is great. We can even carry onto school grounds legally as long as we are picking up or dropping of a child who attends said school
Like other states, signs don't mean crap in this state.
Like other states, signs don't mean crap in this state.
Fishslayer
Member
"The sign is wrong."
I agree with Sam1911, And I also like post #15, If you are asked to leave and the reason they give you is for carrying a firearm, you need to leave or you are breaking the law. The sign in the door or on the wall carries little weight, but being asked to leave by a store employee or management, or in this case a security officer brings it to a new level. If you ignore the sign and enter the building you have not broken the law, but once you are asked to leave and you do not or return still armed you have now committed a crime. This is how it works in Minnesota and I'm sure we copied it from another state.
DMH
DMH
Kevin Rohrer
Member
It's interesting that Pa law allows security guards to enforce mall policy; or do they have the authority? They certainly DON'T in neighboring Ohio.
Trunk Monkey
member
I have some security experience and my first thought is I would be a little concerned if a representative of another security company showed up on my site in uniform and armed especially one acting in a manner that could very easily be construed as acting as an agent of the property owner, such as escorting one of the employees of the mall to her car.
I’m not saying I’d ask you to leave over that but I would find out what was going on.
Second thought, as a security officer yourself you should know that acting as an agent of the property owner does give the security officers employed at the mall the right to enforce their employers legal policies. As stated earlier they can trespass you off the property if you refuse their request to leave.
Last thought, don’t know PA law but in Colorado it is illegal for a licensed security guard to conceal a firearm while in uniform regard less of LTCF status or at least the law is grey enough that I wouldn’t do it.
I make it a point never to leave work in uniform and I believe this would solve your problem.
I’m not saying I’d ask you to leave over that but I would find out what was going on.
Second thought, as a security officer yourself you should know that acting as an agent of the property owner does give the security officers employed at the mall the right to enforce their employers legal policies. As stated earlier they can trespass you off the property if you refuse their request to leave.
Last thought, don’t know PA law but in Colorado it is illegal for a licensed security guard to conceal a firearm while in uniform regard less of LTCF status or at least the law is grey enough that I wouldn’t do it.
I make it a point never to leave work in uniform and I believe this would solve your problem.
toejamm
Member
Hey SAM1911.
I live in PA as well. I was doing some work at a local professional sports facility recently and I asked one of the employees what the policy was for concealed carry in their facility during game day. He said the head of security told him that is someone was armed (With a permit or not) they would be handcuffed and arrested immediately.
I knew that was BS. Your information above is very helpful. Do you know of a source where the laws are explained clearly, in layman's terms, other than the actual legislation/law itself?
I know I would appreciate it if you or someone else could suggest a site to obtain the information.
I live in PA as well. I was doing some work at a local professional sports facility recently and I asked one of the employees what the policy was for concealed carry in their facility during game day. He said the head of security told him that is someone was armed (With a permit or not) they would be handcuffed and arrested immediately.
I knew that was BS. Your information above is very helpful. Do you know of a source where the laws are explained clearly, in layman's terms, other than the actual legislation/law itself?
I know I would appreciate it if you or someone else could suggest a site to obtain the information.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
In uniform? You're lucky your company didn't fire you. I would have.
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