Trunk Gun: Smart Investment or Bad Idea?

[inclinebench]

Sam, I also have a handgun, and a concealed carry permit. I would not use the handgun to dispatch coyotes or wounded deer. The rifle I think served me better when running off a group of vandalizing tresspassers, as they all saw it well from a distance. I think both have a place in my vehicle. Also, I own a small sedan as well as my truck. That sedan does not have a practical place for a long arm, so it is handgun only, and a few times I was in the sedan and wished for a rifle (coyotes).

 

[Sam1911]

...if only for the fact that if you are in a rural enough area that it is a common problem for you, then you are probably at a lower risk of theft.

Another good point. As I was saying previously, I see this as a set of sliding scales within a big grey area, and each person does have to decide what they're comfortable with on each scale.

My antipathy toward the idea of a "trunk gun" has everything to do with the fact that many seem to (or claim to) take the risks without a plausible purpose.

You shoot a lot and this is far more convenient? Well, there's some value realized there.

You dispatch a lot of wounded deer? Ok. (Now, I've NEVER shot a wounded deer, and don't recall having even seen more than 2-3 in my driving years, and at least one wasn't someplace I could have shot it at all, so I'm not sure I'd risk losing a $300+ gun just because someday I might decide to do so. But that's just me and I don't argue the point.)

You drive places which are VERY remote and you seriously may need a gun to survive if you get stranded? Um...well, I think we've knocked that one down a bit, but ... ok.

"What about Mumbai/riots/zombies/carjackers???" C'mon dude!

 

[Diggers]

I would only keep a weapon in the car if I was on a road trip, and then locked up tight and in a hard to find location. Never 24/7.
I don't have any idea how many auto burg reports I've take, 100's at least. Cars are broken into ALL the time, its just not worth it.

 

[Onward Allusion]

OK - I took a breath and re-read the thread.

For me; Truck gun = good idea

However, for me it doesn't have to be a rifle or long gun.

The situation I'd ran across was in my younger days and in a State where one could not go around carrying, so the next best thing was to carry in your car. In that particular situation, it definitely helped me to have access to my trunk pistol. I had to do it once although I didn't have to shoot anyone or even brandish. A reach was all it took. I guess I was meaner looking back then.

What I don't understand is the resistance against having one in your car. I mean, folks have flashlights, first aid kits...etc... What the difference with a gun? It's just a tool. But then, to each their own...

 

[holdencm9]

I see this as a set of sliding scales within a big grey area, and each person does have to decide what they're comfortable with on each scale.

Definitely a sliding scale.

1. I live in the middle of nowhere desert of NM, the risk of theft is almost nonexistent, but wild animals and mexican drug cartels are a real risk.

Okay, keep an AR and maybe even a couple other long guns loaded and ready to go in your trunk!

2. I live in a pretty rural area, but still near a town. Theft risk is low but not unheard of. Sometimes I like to shoot out in the woods after work, and I may have to put an animal down sometime.

Okay, a long gun stored securely in a trunk safe or something would make sense. You won't need to get your gun in a split second anyway, and it limits the threat of theft.

3. I live in the city or suburbs and commute to work every day. My car is parked in an unsecured ramp or on the street usually while I am at work. At home my car is in the driveway or on the street of our subdivision. If the SHTF while I am on a conference call at the office, I like having my AK handy to fight my way home.

Ummm, leave the AK at home dude.

I think THR members have all sorts of different living situations, so there is no one-size fits all answer, hence the poll. I mostly take issue with #3 above. #1 and #2 are fine. And of course, there is everything in between.

This has been a good lively discussion, thanks everyone!

 

[holdencm9]

For me; Truck gun = good idea

Are you talking about a trunk gun as in a long gun, which is what I am mostly focused on, or a truCK gun, as in a glove-box pistol?

What I don't understand is the resistance against having one in your car. I mean, folks have flashlights, first aid kits...etc... What the difference with a gun? It's just a tool. But then, to each their own...

Again, the resistance is due to the risk both financially and to society. We can all agree that criminals with guns is bad. We can all agree that usually, if a gun is stolen out of your car, it will end up in a criminal's hands, because theft in itself is a crime. And then weighing these risks against the possible yet almost nonexistent reward of the gun saving your life or life of loved ones someday.

 

[CountryUgly]

As my screen name implies I'm country folk. Having a long gun readily handy is just a way of life and is usually needed. Right now my flavor is AR15 but it's also been AK47, Mossy 500, a lever gun of some sort and a variety of rimfires. Never know when theres a yote in with the cows, a fox feeding on the chickens or just a pesky skunk trying to hide out in the shop. As far as defense against two legged critters goes if things ever get that bad my most likely recourse will be with JMB's finest pistol. If it takes me having to fight my way back to my truck to get the big gun stuff has done got real bad and I'm more inclined to just get in the truck head home and batten down the hatches.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I do not agree wit the philosophy that the bad guys can have them (or DO have them), but the good people need to leave the SUPERIOR armaments at home. What good is a tactical rifle or other long gun if it is locked up in a vault when you MIGHT want or need it?

 

[epijunkie67]

What about the lack of long gun crime?

I've read most of this thread and a lot of back and forth seems the revolve around the risk/benefit of carrying a gun that might be stolen. If we lived in a crime free world where nothing was ever stolen I get the feeling people would be saying "I can't see a need for it but go for it anyway.". The only solid argument AGAINST keeping a gun in the car is that it might be stolen and used by a criminal.

When was the last time you read about a criminal using a rifle to commit a crime? Any rifle.

I live in a pretty rural area of TN and keep a lever action .357 rifle in a case under my back seat. I've never NEEDED it, but I keep it there anyway. I have no illusion that I'm going to use it to fight my way through zombie hoards and I accept that there is a risk it may get stolen.

But if it does get stolen I'm also not worried about it being used in a crime. It's not like guys are holding up banks or doing drive bys with lever action 30-30s. And trust me, if criminals were using AKs and ARs to commit crimes on a regular basis the gun grabber crowd would be screaming about it from the rooftops with a bullhorn.

So I accept that the chances I'll need my rifle are low. But I also feel that the risk it would be used by a criminal to commit a crime are equally low. He will most likely sell it and might even hunt with it, but the chances it will be used in a crime are vanishingly low.

Handgun of course are a whole other story.

 

[holdencm9]

epijunkie67,

You bring up a good point about long gun crime. I have thought about this too, but it isn't comforting to me. It could just be that they don't have access to them, because they are harder to steal. They are also more expensive, even on the black market. In any case I don't feel the urge to provide any long guns to criminals on the basis that long gun crime isn't that bad right now. I do think that a lever action or shotgun in a trunk is probably wiser than an AR/AK. It is a balance. Like you said, handguns are worse, but a handgun in the glove box is much easier to access and employ than a trunk gun thus lowering the risk/reward ratio. If one must keep a long gun in the vehicle, a quick-access lock might still be a good idea. Just not sure if they sell anything like that.

 

[JustinJ]

I don't really want to deal with a badly wounded and thus ill tempered 250 lb animal with antlers using my P3AT.

If i didn't feel confident my concealed carry gun was safe to euthanize an injured deer with i wouldn't feel confident in it for self defense either. I do have a Ruger LCP but only carry it when no other practical option exists and to be honest i believe it capable of humanely killing a deer with a headshot.

Now i do carry a Ruger P89 in my car at all times but that is only because it offers a distinct advantage over my carry guns due to its barrel length and capacity. While i do believe someone could need a gun while in or near their car I don't believe any such scenario would make a long gun in the trunk practical. For example, if somebody pulls in behind my car and boxes me in there is not time to grab a long gun but the P89 can come out real quick.

In regards to theft its usually a smash and grab in my area which is easily defeated by some of the available safes on the market that are small and allow quick access.

 

[firesky101]

Sam1911,

I get where you are coming from with "what role does a trunk gun fill that cannot be accomplished with your CCW." That is certainly a fair argument for those that can obtain a CCW. There are some areas where CCW is next to impossible, but carrying a secured gun in the trunk=legal. I know those who are burdened by that should just move, but that is not always an option.

 

[Sam1911]

There are some areas where CCW is next to impossible, but carrying a secured gun in the trunk=legal. I know those who are burdened by that should just move, but that is not always an option.

Well, we do try to avoid the useless "just move" advice. That doesn't help anyone.

Unfortunately, a trunk-carried rifle or shotgun is a very poor substitute for a sidearm always with you and easily accessible -- but it can be, in some cases, far better than nothing. Wouldn't argue with anyone who tried to meet the need when they had no other options.

 

[epijunkie67]

Holden,

I can't buy the idea that criminals don't use long guns in crimes because they can't get them or they are more expensive. A brand new shotgun is only a few hundred dollars and even a cheap used handgun will cost that much.

I think criminals don't use long arms for for the same reason we don't carry them for self defense. They aren't practical and they aren't concealable.

I totally understand not wanting to carry a firearm on your vehicle if you are concerned it might get stolen. If I lived in a more urban area I likely wouldn't carry one. And I accept that even in my rural area vehicle crime is a possibility. But given the low rate of vehicle crime in my area AND the statistically tiny chance that a lever action rifle is going to be used in a crime I feel comfortable keeping one there.

 

[holdencm9]

Holden,

I can't buy the idea that criminals don't use long guns in crimes because they can't get them or they are more expensive. A brand new shotgun is only a few hundred dollars and even a cheap used handgun will cost that much.

I think criminals don't use long arms for for the same reason we don't carry them for self defense. They aren't practical and they aren't concealable.

I totally understand not wanting to carry a firearm on your vehicle if you are concerned it might get stolen. If I lived in a more urban area I likely wouldn't carry one. And I accept that even in my rural area vehicle crime is a possibility. But given the low rate of vehicle crime in my area AND the statistically tiny chance that a lever action rifle is going to be used in a crime I feel comfortable keeping one there.

I am not sure I buy it either. Just some theories. I think I agree that because they aren't concealable is a big part, but then again, with all the drive-by shootings lately, I am sure some thugs wouldn't mind adding an AR to their arsenal.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm not sure I agree that a 12 ga. slug is requried to put down a wounded 1?0 lb. deer at close range, as opposed to a .45ACP, but that's a discussion for the hunting forum, probably.

No, it's not required, but I don't always have a .40/.45/10mm/.357 with me. The 870 was a freebie that I just had to put a little time and a couple bucks into, so I don't really care if it gets beat up (more) or a little rusty riding around behind the seat.

The mulies are thick here; You can't drive very far without seeing a fresh kill most days. Most of the time, the deer are already dead by the time I see them, and the majority that I've actually seen get hit expired quickly. More than once I've got out with gun and walked over just in time to see it take it's last few breaths, then check for pulse and, if I have time and it's not completely destroyed, load it up. However, the ones that get hit in the rear end tend to be badly broken but very much alive.

If i didn't feel confident my concealed carry gun was safe to euthanize an injured deer with i wouldn't feel confident in it for self defense either. I do have a Ruger LCP but only carry it when no other practical option exists and to be honest i believe it capable of humanely killing a deer with a headshot.

You've never dealt with an injured deer, have you? When they're writhing around with broken hips, they're very much alive and you really don't want to get that close. I'm a decent shot with a handgun, but deer have tiny brains and fairly tough skulls. Odds are you'd have to shoot it more than once with a typical handgun (the 10mm I used was stoked with my own loads that far exceed typical .40 or .45 power), and that's just not ethical. With a 12 ga. slug, one or two through the boiler room and it's lights out.

Sure, I could just keep a larger caliber handgun in the vehicle instead, but why? If it's gonna live in the car anyway, it may as well be a more powerful (and less expensive) long gun.

It is lawful to dispatch and even claim car-injured animals here, though adviseable to call it in so no one thinks you're poaching.

That's a big ol' deer!

Eh, not really out here. Does tend to be closer to 150-200, but it's not terribly uncommon to see 300+ lb big bucks around here.

 

[shiftyer1]

Im not going to read this whole thread, its become a pissing match and I didnt get halfway thru it. I keep 2 rifles in the truck im in the country and have a long driveway and see coyotes and skunks regularly. If I was in an area where everything I had needed to be bolted down, id have a gun in my pocket not my car.

Seems like common sense to me.

As far as folks running to the country because its safe, thats foolish stay where u are. We have our own problems

 

[mljdeckard]

I'll sum it up this way. There is not any defensive job I would rather do with a pistol than a rifle. Would I have time to deploy it? Maybe, maybe not. But if I don't have it, I don't have the option at all.

 

[jrdolall]

Again, the resistance is due to the risk both financially and to society

Are you a member of an anti-gun group? This is the EXACT argument used by the anti-gun lobby to get laws passed against legal ownership of guns. I just can't buy the "it may get stolen" line of thought. People who own a gun are accepting the risk that the gun could possibly be lost or stolen and that the gun could wind up in the hands of a criminal. If you keep your gun in your car, in your trunk, in a safe, on your bedside table or on your person 24/7 then it is POSSIBLE that the gun will be stolen. How many LEO's have wound up losing their guns to the BG? A small number for sure but it does happen. That gun on your hip will help you little if the BG has a gun pointed at your chest 10 feet away. If your gun is taken by the BG and used later in a crime will you stop owning guns because of the guilt and the possibility that it could happen again?

Give me one example of a situation where a gun could not POSSIBLY get stolen. I don't know the stats but I imagine it is more likely that a gun will be stolen than it is that the gun will actually be used to prevent a crime. I have a lot of guns. None have ever been stolen and none have ever been used in SD so the stats are pretty even.

Based on the thread we have probably established that there are valid reason to keep a gun in your trunk. There are also valid situations that probably make that a bad idea. Living in an area where crime is the norm it is probably a bad idea to keep a gun anywhere other than on your person. I have no doubt that there are instances where a gun in the trunk has come in handy and possibly saved someone's life or property. Is it statistically likely to happen? No. Is it statistically likely that you will ever use your CCW to protect your life? No.

As stated earlier I do not keeep a gun in the trunk because I don't have a trunk. I have not had a car for 30 years and probably will never have one again. I DO keep a rifle under my rear seat in the truck. I can access that rifle in about 10 seconds, though I have never tried to time it, and have used it often to shoot varmints. I hope it never gets stolen but if it does I will feel no more guilt than I would if a gun was stolen from my home.

 

[nickn10]

Good Grief

I gotta ask, how many of the previous posters are lawyers? I've never heard so much repeated, redundant cons vs pros except in political ads. Bottom line you do what you are comfortable with and the heck with someone else's opinion. I assume we are all over 21 and can legally practice our choice.:banghead:

 

[nickn10]

Are you a member of an anti-gun group? This is the EXACT argument used by the anti-gun lobby to get laws passed against legal ownership of guns. I just can't buy the "it may get stolen" line of thought. People who own a gun are accepting the risk that the gun could possibly be lost or stolen and that the gun could wind up in the hands of a criminal. If you keep your gun in your car, in your trunk, in a safe, on your bedside table or on your person 24/7 then it is POSSIBLE that the gun will be stolen. How many LEO's have wound up losing their guns to the BG? A small number for sure but it does happen. That gun on your hip will help you little if the BG has a gun pointed at your chest 10 feet away. If your gun is taken by the BG and used later in a crime will you stop owning guns because of the guilt and the possibility that it could happen again?

Give me one example of a situation where a gun could not POSSIBLY get stolen. I don't know the stats but I imagine it is more likely that a gun will be stolen than it is that the gun will actually be used to prevent a crime. I have a lot of guns. None have ever been stolen and none have ever been used in SD so the stats are pretty even.

Based on the thread we have probably established that there are valid reason to keep a gun in your trunk. There are also valid situations that probably make that a bad idea. Living in an area where crime is the norm it is probably a bad idea to keep a gun anywhere other than on your person. I have no doubt that there are instances where a gun in the trunk has come in handy and possibly saved someone's life or property. Is it statistically likely to happen? No. Is it statistically likely that you will ever use your CCW to protect your life? No.

As stated earlier I do not keeep a gun in the trunk because I don't have a trunk. I have not had a car for 30 years and probably will never have one again. I DO keep a rifle under my rear seat in the truck. I can access that rifle in about 10 seconds, though I have never tried to time it, and have used it often to shoot varmints. I hope it never gets stolen but if it does I will feel no more guilt than I would if a gun was stolen from my home.

Well said, Thank you.

 

[Sam1911]

Are you a member of an anti-gun group? This is the EXACT argument used by the anti-gun lobby to get laws passed against legal ownership of guns. I just can't buy the "it may get stolen" line of thought. People who own a gun are accepting the risk that the gun could possibly be lost or stolen and that the gun could wind up in the hands of a criminal.

No need for the inflammationary rhetoric. NO, none of us here is a member of an anti-gun group. Just because we use some of the same words doesn't make us on their side. We can, and SHOULD, take responsibility for our actions and their repercussions willingly. That doesn't mean that we accept the "antis'" lines/lies, or that we want to see legislation that takes away our ability to work out responsible solutions for ourselves.

Of course your gun could be stolen from a sealed vault encased in concrete inside an active volcano ... on Mars. Or from a gun vault room built into your basement. Or from a locked security cabinet in your closet. Or from a display case in your living room. Or right out of your holster. Or from your car left out on the street at night.

Not all those things are equally likely, nor are all of those storage possibilities equally available to and appropriate for all of us.

My point here has been to ask members to reflect on the facts that, 1) NONE of us want to see (or PUT) gun in the hands of criminals, 2) none of us, of course, want to have our guns stolen, 3) that we may be risking loss or theft when our storage and security habits become sloppy and/or overly "convenient," and 4) we may be wise to think very critically about the reasons we give ourselves for taking these risks and perhaps admit that those reasons are merely excuses without any actual basis in plausibility or practicality.

 

[rbernie]

Now what about the guy who likes to go to the range 3 days a week after work and commutes from the suburbs to the city? I don't see how he is in the wrong, remember a gun locked in the trunk is not in plain sight anyone stealing his vehicle is not doing it for the firearm and may not even find it. I don't keep a long gun in the trunk but I don't see how it's irresponsible if one desires it.

I work around folk that, at any point in time, probably have a couple of shotguns, a couple of ARs, and a handful of pistols in their car simply because shooting regularly and opportunistically is what they do.

I'm not sure that I buy into the argument that doing so is irresponsible. It seems to me that the arguments calling such behaviors irresponsible are getting dangerously close to that 'blaming the rape victim for being female/male' mentality. In the end, I know many folk that steadfastly refuse to take personal ownership for the bad behavior of others, and I'm not of a mind to completely disagree with them.

If the guns are locked and out of sight, then it would seem that the owners have taken basic precautions to avoid tempting thievery.

 

[Sam1911]

It seems to me that the arguments calling such behaviors irresponsible are getting dangerously close to that 'blaming the rape victim for being female/male' mentality.

Fair point. I don't mean to fall into that unfair view. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the defensive-minded. It isn't your fault that something bad happened, because "fault' is a very pejorative word. But, in as sensitive and well-meaning a way as possible, we can certainly point out that perhaps there are lessons to be learned that can keep others from experiencing the same bad ends.

It isn't a person's fault that they were raped, or killed, or were a victim of theft. But refusing to learn from those experiences (and/or similar experiences of others) is clearly foolish. As the NRA's defense training title says, "Refuse to be a Victim!"

We walk a fine line between not assigning responsibility for bad events to the victims, and acknowledging that potential victims do have the ability to affect outcomes.

 

[Skribs]

It isn't a person's fault that they were raped, or killed, or were a victim of theft. But refusing to learn from those experiences (and/or similar experiences of others) is clearly foolish.
...
We walk a fine line between not assigning responsibility for bad events to the victims, and acknowledging that potential victims do have the ability to affect outcomes.

Well, I don't think anyone can learn from a situation where they were killed, but this is a very good way of wording what I tried to say in my psych class when we covered blaming the victim. A lot of people seem to use the "don't blame the victim" as an excuse to not learn, because if you suggest they do something different, that means you're placing blame on how they entered the situation and that's a psych no-no (to use the technical terms, of course).

And, the great thing is, all of these apply to RKBA and self defense, and its why we're all here.