Truth or Fiction?

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What parameters are used in most rifle matches to score points?
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In the 1000 yard F Class I shoot, it's strictly points, and the previously fired shots' hole is pasted each time by the guys in the pits. In 1000 yard benchrest, the holes are not pasted and there are awards for both the highest score AND the smallest group. It all depends upon the game.

Don
 
I pull the occasional MOA group from my scoped and bedded hunting rifle, but other than that, I don't shoot on paper a lot. I shoot plates, stumps, and rocks at various distances. I also shoot field positions with a tight military sling, whenever possible, and enjoy a good set of irons, such as those on my M1A. So I am willing to do without the sub-MOA groups, since I know I can put an entire 20 round mag through a car door at 600 yards with iron sights. Good nuf for me.
 
Okay I posted my humor above but in all seriousness I have met couple of guys capable of almost inhuman accuracy. I'm not saying 1" groups at 2,000 yards but one was an old Texas Ranger who was better with a .44 Magnum pistol than anyone has a right to be and the other was a Paris Island grad who could "Kentucky Windage" a 5.56 NATO round into doing unreal things at stupidly long distances like 300-400 yards. I have NO idea how he did it but I figure he had the best eyesight of anyone I've ever met personally.

The nato 5.56 round isn't that inaccurate. I had a friend, ex marine who joined the army later (never could figure that one out, but hey... it's his call) that could put a 5.56 round out of his m16 into the head at 300M consistantly (tracers at the range) and 7 out of 7 in a 400M target on full auto with a saw. He is one of the best shooters I have ever encountered. From what I hear, scout snipers are capable of 1200 M shots, but they use very specialized .308's at that distance. I haven't seen it done, but that seems to be the average distance I hear from them (I have known several and they all make the claim of 1200 - 1500M shots). Personally, I am lucky to get an 8 inch group at 300M with an M16. 100Y with my .22, Ill moa it though.
 
whenever I hear "3 shot group", I instantly turn off. Like that tells you anything
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3 shot groups are fine if all you shot were those 3. But it doesn't hold much weight if you put 50 rounds down range and 3 of them just happen to be together. :D
 
I went out yesterday evening, during yellow flag times of the Craftsman Truck race (perfect spacing to let the barrel cool between groups) and shot several three-shot groups to try out a new .223 load. Did some scope adjusting while I was at it. All groups were half-MOA. Then did another three-shot group with some different powder to compare point of impact. Still half-MOA and, happily, same point of impact.

Tell me nothing? I don't think so...

:), Art
 
I can shoot an inch at 125 yards regularly with my .300 with my hand loads of 180 grain ballistic tips using 66.5 grains of Hodgdons 4350 with only a bipod. I can also regularly score hits on an 8" target at around 400 yards using my fanny pack on a pile of dirt. I don`t have a bench rest, never liked the idea of the use of a bench rest after zeroing my scope because it takes much less skill and steadiness, if there`s such a word, to shoot tight groups but I guess since everyone else is using them I might as well go get one. I wonder how hard it`ll be to carry it with me on a hunt, setting it up etc.
 
600 Yards .386

New Record...

.308 Win...

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You guys should mosey on over to Benchrest Central and tell 'em it's fiction. :neener:
 
1" @ 1,000 yards is impossible.

Due to the law of Geometric progression, in order to obtain a 1" group at 1,000 yards each bullet would have to leave the muzzle LESS THAN 0.001 degrees off center from all the previous shots.

If someone sneezed it may throw off the flight of you bullet :rolleyes: 1/2 MOA is very exceptional. Shooting 1/10'th MOA is a masturbatory notion.
 
1" @ 1,000 yards is impossible.

Due to the law of Geometric progression, in order to obtain a 1" group at 1,000 yards each bullet would have to leave the muzzle LESS THAN 0.001 degrees off center from all the previous shots.

If someone sneezed it may throw off the flight of you bullet 1/2 MOA is very exceptional. Shooting 1/10'th MOA is a masturbatory notion.
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Very unlikely? Yes. Impossible? I wouldn't go that far. Records are always being broken. Now, repeatability of 1" at 1000 yards would be tickling impossible, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1" group at 1000 show up in the next few years.
 
I shot this fly at 100 yards. 1 shot 1 kill. I thought I heard a little scream
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Hee hee. :D

Oh, and I have little doubt you hit a pop can at 300 yards with a Marlin 39A. I also have NO doubt that it didn't happen every shot, and probably not even most shots, and that it took you quite a few shots to walk it in before the first hit. You didn't mention that latter part.
 
What to expect at 1000 yards.

Assumptions: You have an accurate rifle with a moderate to heavy contour, quality barrel which is free floated. You are using a match bullet in a load that has been developed for the rifle which puts up low ES and SD numbers, and remains supersonic at 1k. You have a steady rest of some sort (bipod or mechanical rest), and are capable of atleast reasonable marksmanship skills. Environmental conditions are such that there are no radical and sudden changes in wind speed and/or direction.

Likely Results with a string of 20 shots fired in a 30 minute timeframe: Somewhere between 1MOA and 2MOA (between 10" and 20").

This is just MHO, having seen alot of guys shooting at this distance over the past 6 years.

Don
 
I went to US Army Sniper school, and have NEVER seen anyone even off of a tied down shooting rest and $5000.00 rifle shoot anywher near a 1in group at even 5~600 yards! that seems impossible even if the conditions were perfect and the shooter was a machine. I remember seeing a guy I THINK who shot a 4in group at 700 yards which I beleive was supposed to be a world record. I shoot (under perfect conditions 1/4in to 1/2in at 100 yards but not consistantly, and even if conditions are perfect that is more like 3/4in, so if ya do the math, that aint no 1in group at 500 even!
 
600 Yards .386

not practical, not realistic in the real world but then again, that isn't what we are debating here is it! We are only debating that no one can really shoot that well. I can tell you I have seen that class shoot before and they usually don't get more than one group like that in their entire lives. That without being backed up is what I repsectively call a fluke. Like when I was 8 and shot a flying black capped chickadee out of the air at full tilt boogie with a bent barreled Daisy BB gun while walkig and talking to a freind. The bird was at an altitude of about 100ft....like a say, a fluke.
 
Here's the scoop on the 0.386" Group.

April 27, 2008
John Lewis Shoots 0.386″ Group at 600 Yards with Home-built Gun
Filed under: News — Editor @ 4 am
Terry Brady reports that on Saturday at the Oak Ridge (TN) IBS registered Benchrest match, John Lewis shot a spectacular 0.386″ 5-shot group in Heavy Gun Class. When certified, this substantially lowers the existing record (currently held by Brady.) A 0.386″ group at 600 yards is the equivalent of 0.0614 MOA. John shot the group with a wood and metal-stocked gun he built himself. It is chambered in .308 Win. John was shooting a Lapua 155gr bullet.
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Anybody know what Heavy Gun Class is? Well, Light Gun Class consists of rifles weighing 17 pounds or less, so we are talking about a rifle that can give a man a hernia. Also, this type of shooting is a test of the rifle, not the rifleman, as about the only interface between the rifle and the shooter is the finger on the trigger. This is not meant to demean either the shooter or the group, just to put it in perspective. And lastly, after how many years of how many thousands of shooters, shooting how many millions of shots, do we finally have a 0.386" group?

Don
 
600 Yards .386
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not practical, not realistic in the real world but then again, that isn't what we are debating here is it! We are only debating that no one can really shoot that well. I can tell you I have seen that class shoot before and they usually don't get more than one group like that in their entire lives. That without being backed up is what I repsectively call a fluke.
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EXACTLY! Either that, are totally fiction.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1" group at 1000 show up in the next few years.
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I would bet my entire estate that you will never ever see such a group.
You go out and shoot a few at 600yds and show us what you can do.
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Sadly, I don`t have a place to shoot more than 512 yards. I shoot an 8" target at 400 and 512 yards. Mt hit/miss ratio is about 6/8 on average but some days are better than others like a few days ago when I hit the targets 100% of the time. I have bad days also but more good than bad. :D
 
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