Trying to Like My Sigma...

[rellascout]

and they do make the sigma in 9mm which is what MINE is.

Did you read the OP? His is 40 S&W. Have you ever shot a 22LR Revolver? The principle of trigger control directly applies. If I could go back a start all over again I would shoot 10,000 rounds from a S&W 22LR before I ever picked up another handgun.

YMMV

 

[brandon_mcg]

"Did you read the OP?"

sure did. i'm not trying to convince the o.p. to keep his for that purpose. if he doesnt like it, then sell it. that's his prerogative. i was just stating my opinion and that i feel that the sigma helped me to learn handgun basics. the appeal to shoot a .22 for the price of ammo is there. not discouraging anyone else from shooting 10k rounds of .22 for beginning, just stating it doesnt appeal to me.

btw, if you cant afford to practice with the caliber of your choice then why buy a handgun in that caliber? i prefer to become proficient with my carry caliber in the grain i will be carrying.

 

[sxcamaro05]

I actually liked the Sigma the first time I fired one. It semed neat and looked interesting. I have since altered my stance and like lots of others better. I find other guns fit my hand better but hey for the price I say its good enough for most folks.

 

[bullbarrel]

I have posted about how bad the Sigma is too. My problem was reliability, then I noticed that after 13 boxes it never jammed anymore: so long as I always loaded with at least 15 rounds. Using a 10-round mag it jammed horribly again. As to accuracy and the trigger. I got used to the trigger and hit better with it, finding it very accurate. I now shoot my Ruger MK II and MKIII better but I don't know if it's due to having shot the Sigma.

 

[Onward Allusion]

rellascout
If you want to learn trigger control get a 22LR revolver. Telling someone to keep shooting 40 S&W out of a sigma to learn trigger control is absurd IMHO. It is cost prohibitive. <SNIP>

While one may learn trigger control with a 22LR revolver, it is like comparing apples & oranges when trying to equate it to learning how to shoot a 40S&W (SA/DA or DAO) to a 22LR revolver.

As for 40S&W being cost prohibitive in learning how to shoot, how else would someone learn how to shoot a 40? Also, the cost difference between 9mm and 40S&W is about $2 per box. IMO, the cost difference is negliable.

I have a number of Sigmas in 40S&W & 9mm. While they are similar, they still have very different recoil, report, & performance. When I shoot the 9's I have tighter groups (~ 1") and quicker follow-ups. With the 40 the groups are more like ~ 2" and follow-up interval is wider. This is with the same gun chambered in a different caliber!

One is not going to learn how to shoot a .45 ACP well by shooting a 9mm. Just like one is not going to learn how to shoot a 40S&W DAO well by shooting a 22LR revolver. Both will help with the fundamentals, but it isn't 100% the same or even 90%...maybe 80% or 70%...

 

[Onward Allusion]

http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=133190

RC20
<SNIP>
We NEVER shot it DA. Cocked it and shot it SA. Yes you could if you had to, but never did.
Why? DA is a good way to miss. Vast majority of encounters are about shot placement, you will not get it DA.
And yes I can back that up. I shot our Trooper course once, no practice, just this is how its done, had to figure out the rounds, the speed loader as well as the points you could reload, where to carry the ammo for access.
I out shot 17 out of 20 instructors, and ALL students. Why? Because I did it in single action. I was well within all the time lines, never rushed. Why, because I planned it, and I shot it calmly.
Me, I say take the DA semi autos and pitch em. 1911 is best, but the DA/SA you can carry in condition one is the next best. Get one or the other.
Its all about practice with a GOOD gun.

In general, if one shoots DA well, SA becomes better. In the real world the targets shoot back. Shots count and inadvertent double taps can be deadly. Going back to the revolver, it takes an extra split second in getting it to SA and is also one more step in the process.

 

[Onward Allusion]

btw, if you cant afford to practice with the caliber of your choice then why buy a handgun in that caliber? i prefer to become proficient with my carry caliber in the grain i will be carrying.

+1 ding ding ding

 

[rellascout]

While one may learn trigger control with a 22LR revolver, it is like comparing apples & oranges when trying to equate it to learning how to shoot a 40S&W (SA/DA or DAO) to a 22LR revolver.

As for 40S&W being cost prohibitive in learning how to shoot, how else would someone learn how to shoot a 40? Also, the cost difference between 9mm and 40S&W is about $2 per box. IMO, the cost difference is negliable.

I have a number of Sigmas in 40S&W & 9mm. While they are similar, they still have very different recoil, report, & performance. When I shoot the 9's I have tighter groups (~ 1") and quicker follow-ups. With the 40 the groups are more like ~ 2" and follow-up interval is wider. This is with the same gun chambered in a different caliber!

One is not going to learn how to shoot a .45 ACP well by shooting a 9mm. Just like one is not going to learn how to shoot a 40S&W DAO well by shooting a 22LR revolver. Both will help with the fundamentals, but it isn't 100% the same or even 90%...maybe 80% or 70%...

I disagree 100%. It is not an apples to orange comparison. It is about fundamentals. It seems like the number one reason people are giving for keeping this Sigma is that it has a overly stiff DAO trigger that even those who own and defend it state is less that ideal. The arguement being if you can learn to shot this thing you can shoot anything. My opinion is that this is a poor approach and will cost more money and in the long run create more problems then it is worth. Training fundamentals like trigger control are best taught by repetition, say 10,000 times. This is how one builds muscle memory which is needed to maintain proper trigger control. The question is not the cost difference between 9mm and 40 S&W its the difference between 40 S&W and 22LR. 10,000 you do the math.

The over whelming source of shooter error is trigger control. Mainly because people did not build on a solid base. They never shot enough 22lr to learn proper grip and trigger control. Too many run out and buy a defensive caliber gun and blast away. They are not holding the gun properly they have too much or too little finger in the trigger. The errors and poor fundamentals seen by learning on defensive caliber guns can been seen at any range on any day illustrated on the spray pattern on peoples targets.

Once you have developed bad habits that are very hard to deconstruct and break down the road. Ask a golf swing instructor. Its not that a 10,000 rounds of 22LR will teach you how to shoot a 40 or 45 its that it will give you a proper foundation so that when you step up to these calibers you will have the solid fundamentals needed to shot them properly. If you want to start your shooting life with a 40 S&W with a crappy trigger like the Sigma rock out. Its your money its your gun its your choice i just personally think its a poor one. YMMV

 

[rellascout]

btw, if you cant afford to practice with the caliber of your choice then why buy a handgun in that caliber? i prefer to become proficient with my carry caliber in the grain i will be carrying.

Again going back to the OP he does not carry this gun. He clearly stated:

Just to clear things up, this gun is not used for home defense, self defense, or any other defensive function. While it's never failed to function, I don't think I could even hit a body-sized target at farther than 7 yards. I've got plenty of other pistols that I use for defensive situations. It simply sits in my gun cabinet and I try to avoid eye contact with it. I may go over to the SW forum and see what I can find about polishing the trigger and removing the lawyer spring.

Again if you have a Sigma great. If you like it great. I do not understand why people feel the need to defend it when people express another opinion.

 

[Onward Allusion]

I think we agree on more than not RE: fundamentals, trigger control, cost of shooting, grip, stance...etc.

The Sigma is NOT a platform to learn how to shoot well. I ended up with my first one because I was looking for an inexpensive range toy. I ended up with a few more because I was able to master it's awful gritty heavy trigger and it was dirt cheap to buy. They now sit in my BOB's and in other strategic places.

In my situation, I can afford to spend the dollars on practicing with 40, so I did. I have probably shot close to 3,000 to 4,000 rounds out of the ones I have. Of course, the route I took is not for everyone. I did start out shooting 22LR many years ago and now it has lost some of its allure. I like my guns to have stiffer recoil and report. Maybe I'm just losing my hearing and feelings in my hands!

As a side note, all my other defensive guns are 59XX's and 38's. The Sigmas are relegated to BOBs and the range. I guess the purpose of my posts on the Sigmas is that they aren't anywhere near as bad as some would say. One has to put in at least 1,000 rounds to be able to say it is absolutely garbage.

I disagree 100%. It is not an apples to orange comparison. It is about fundamentals.

 

[rellascout]

As a side note, all my other defensive guns are 59XX's and 38's. The Sigmas are relegated to BOBs and the range. I guess the purpose of my posts on the Sigmas is that they aren't anywhere near as bad as some would say. One has to put in at least 1,000 rounds to be able to say it is absolutely garbage.

I agree with that. I have shot them enough to know that they have some value. Most of them seem to go bang reliablity and if you have decent fundamentals you can shoot them well enough. I just think that too many people get them as their first gun because of their cost and perpetual rebates and then have trouble and get discouraged. I am also of the school that life is too short and ammo too expensive to shoot something that does not put a smile on your face. I have sold CZ75s, HK p30s and HK45s as well as others because they just were not a good fit for me.

I personally would not own one but I understand that for the price for some they are a good choice.

 

[RC20]

I think there is value in 22 for establish good technique.

You do need to shoot at least the caliber and power of what you are shooting, bigger or more powerful is even better I think.

I shot 44 magnum and 41 magnum, when I went to the 357 in the same frame and wad cutters, it was like shooting a 22.

 

[RC20]

"In general, if one shoots DA well, SA becomes better. In the real world the targets shoot back. Shots count and inadvertent double taps can be deadly. Going back to the revolver, it takes an extra split second in getting it to SA and is also one more step in the process."
__________________


Getting the hammer to go all the way back in DA is going to take a fraction of second longer, or its going to be a lot less accurate if you just jerk it back.

Its about shot placement and SA is going to achieve that.

If you practice SA, then you will be far better than the other guy. You are going to be hitting and he will be missing. I think it will be far more effective. I hope I never find out, resutls of gun fight bears it out, shot placement wins.