Uberti Cattleman weak mainspring?

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Sure.

Just remember, you are eyeballing the amount of firing pin protrusion against a known thickness. Try to line up everything as perpendicular as possible to minimize parallax. Or lay your feeler gauges in and lay a flat surface on top of them until the flat surface just touches the tip of the firing pin.

I will still bet you a donut that a new spring will solve your light firing pin hits, so try that first. Thinned down hammer springs are very common in ex-cowboy guns.
 
Ok

Will try the new mainspring when i get it and save the firing pin and trigger/bolt spring for spares. Thanks again to all of you.
 
Don't panic. Stay calm. Don't change more than one thing at a time. Replace the spring and see what happens. Your firing pin may work just fine anyway. When I get a chance I will measure the protrusion of a couple of my firing pins. The dimensions I gave you are straight out of Kuhnhausen's Single Action Revolvers Shop Manual. I'll see if I can give you some numbers from my Colts and the one Cattleman that I still have. Be sure there is nothing down inside preventing the hammer from moving all the way forward.
 
Be sure there is nothing down inside preventing the hammer from moving all the way forward.
Like the two position base pin 'import safety' Uberti used, or still uses??

rc
 
Check the notches on your cylinder pin. Uberti uses a 2 notch pin, one for firing and one for safe. Recoil could possibly force a worn cylinder pin just enough to partially engage that safety notch, which might be the cause of light primer strikes. Whenever you have a failure to fire take a look at the position of that pin.
 
One more area to check. I have a Uberti, actually several. On this particular one though I was having some miss fires. I traced it down to the pin that holds the firing pin in the hammer. It would walk sideways a little, dragging on the inside of the frame and slowing the hammer fall. I replaced with a tight fitting split roll pin, I have seen others that peened it in place. Look for marks on the frame where the hammer falls on either side, also look at the pin and see if you see any marking.
 
Positions

Ok, guys i checked the pin that hold the firing pin and it is fine, no contact with frame. I know about the 2 position base pin and it is not the problem. I am waiting to see if i get a reply from the fella i bought it from to see if he had worked on the mainspring to lighten it since he is a CAS shooter. I figure that is the problem though as the spring is a lot weaker than the other one i got from him. It was a matte finish and i didn't keep it though.
 
You did say you were using reloads. Are you sure the primers are seated deep enough?

If the primers were not seated far enough, .004-.005"under flush, that could be causing you the same kind of problem your experiencing.

I'm not doubting one word the others are saying about the Uberti springs but we can't rule improper primer seating out either.
 
Howdy Again

It is fairly easy to tell if a Uberti mainspring has been lightened. Stock springs have a uniform blue finish from the tempering process. One that has been ground down to lighten it will show grinding marks through the blue. A properly ground spring will show very light grinding marks running the length of the spring. A poorly ground one may show grinding marks running across the spring, an invitation to break at some point.

Another method of lightening a spring is to 'wasp waist' it. A wasp waisted spring will have been narrowed across its widest dimension like a wasp waist. It is usually pretty obvious. If your spring shows any of these conditions, it has clearly been lightened. And it sounds like the grinder went just a little bit too far. Perhaps he was shooting nothing but Federal primers.

The hammer spring of one of my Colts has been lightened a tad too much, it is only reliable with Federal Large Pistol primers. I don't use Winchester primers in ammo that will probably wind up in this Colt.
 
Tightgroup i am using a Lee Autoprime XR and making real sure they are down all the way.
Driftwood, I can't see anything on the spring that looks like it was re-worked. (Maybe an aftermarket lighter spring?) I do know the spring in this one is a lot lighter than the spring in the one i traded off is. I tried to find some Federal primers but no luck. Reloading components are getting as hard to find as ammo. So all i have are Winchesters for now.
 
New Parts

Well, i got the new parts from VTI today and installed the new mainspring they sent and it feels just like the old one, really weak. So other than shim it i don't know what else to do. Maybe drill and tap a hole in the front strap like an 1858 Remington for a mainspring adjustment screw?
 
This is very odd.

Most Uberti SA's I have messed with through the years came with factory hammer springs that could substitute as rear leaf springs on a 1945 Willy's Jeep.

rc
 
RC, i know the one i traded off had a good strong spring. I am going to contact VTI tomorrow and make sure they didn't send me a lightened spring instead of a factory stock replacement.
 
Well, if you are used to heavy factory springs and 'think' they're supposed to be like that, I could see how a reduced power spring would feel too light. In truth, you don't really 'need' a heavy factory spring. If it won't ignite primers with a reduced power spring then something is wrong.
 
Something Like?

If it isn't too weak of a spring then what else would you suggest? I did manage to get 1000 Federal primers last night and they are supposed to be easier to ignite than the Winchesters. So that might solve the problem.
 
I feel for you.
But having to use only certain primers is only fixing the Symptom, and not the Problem.
Lets keep working on the Problem, and lets see if we can truely get it fixed.
 
I totally agree.

Have you checked cylinder end shake?
If the cylinder is able to slide foreword too far, it will create excess headspace, and the firing pin will not be able to fully reach the primers.

Even if firing pin protrusion is as it should be.

rc
 
Howdy

I agree with everything rcmodel and Craig said. Normal factory springs for Uberti single action revolvers are stronger than they really need to be, to overcome the friction left behind in the mechanism. The mechanisms are not tuned, and there are enough tiny burrs and rough surfaces left over to cause some friction that affects how easily the hammer falls. So the standard factory springs are purposely made heavier to overcome the extra friction inherent in standard factory guns. A lightened hammer spring is only recommended if the gun has been tuned to remove the extra friction.

Sometimes it takes a little bit of experience to get the feel for what is a 'light' hammer pull and what is not. I have a 2nd Gen Colt that I bought used a few years ago. It still had the factory spring in it, and it was truly amazing how much strength it took to pull that hammer back. But I had the luxury of another Colt and a couple of Ubertis to compare it to. The factory spring in that Colt could have been used for the suspension of a Mack Truck. I replaced it with another spring, and to tell you the truth I do not remember exactly what spring it was, but that is the one that I only use Federal primers for.

Yes, it is true that using only a particular brand of primers is only addressing the symptoms, not the cause. But since you have some Federals anyway, it will not hurt to try some. Hopefully you have Federal Large Pistol primers, not Large Rifle. Since you reload anyway, try seating a few Federal primers in some empty cases and dropping the hammer on them. No need to load complete ammo, all you need is primed cases. That means you can find out what is happening in the basement, rather than going to the range. Only load one at a time because the primers will back out and make it difficult to rotate the cylinder. That is what happens when you fire primers without a bullet or powder charge. But if you just load one at a time you should be able to drop the hammer, and if the primer backs out you can rotate the cylinder by hand to get the fired case to the loading gate. You may be right on the hairy edge right now where the spring will fire Federal primers reliably, but it will not reliably fire Winchesters. Yes, Federals are easier to set off than Winchesters. Try a few in empty cases and see what happens.

Your idea of adding a strain screw like a S&W has will probably not work. The spring in a S&W revolver is retained at both ends, and the hammer end is captured by the stirrup on the hammer. The strain screw then adds tension to the spring between the two fixed points. A Colt clone hammer uses the same little roller that a Colt does. The roller rides on the end of the spring. If you have to bend the spring a tiny amount, it might work, but if you have to bend it too much the spring might pop out from under the little roller when the hammer falls.

Looking back over the earlier comments, it looks like when you measured firing pin protrusion it came up a little bit short. This may have something to do with what is going on. In this case, another pin might be a tad longer and might fix everything. I will tell you that once the firing pin in one of my Colts broke. The replacement pin I installed was a tad too short. Rather than finding another pin, I ground some metal off the frame so the hammer could fall a little bit father. This approach did work, but I do not recommend it. It is usually better to alter the cheaper part, the pin, rather than the expensive part, the frame.

Cylinder endshake might also be playing a role. Ideally there should be zero endshake, but a couple of thousandths is not unusual. Obviously, if the firing pin expends some of its energy pushing the cylinder forward, that is energy that is not available to dent the firing pin. If you have excessive endshake there are shims available from Brownells. They go down inside the cylinder where the removable bushing is inserted. The right thickness of shims will keep your cylinder all the way back without endshake, but they will keep your barrel/cylinder gap open a little bit larger than is normal.

Be sure your primers are completely seated, they should be a few thousandths subflush to the case head. If the firing pin wastes part of its energy seating primers, that can lead to unreliable ignition too.

P.S. One more thing. Look for a raised burr on the hole in the frame where the firing pin protrudes through. This is very common with Ubertis, it is often caused by excessive dry firing. The guy you bought the gun from might have been doing a lot of dry firing. Colt and clone firing pins are free to rotate slightly up and down in the hammer. As they go through the hole in the frame, the firing pin 'finds its way' through the hole. This is completely normal and is part of the design. As the firing pin flies through the hole, it is contacting the inner surface of the hole. Over time, material gets displaced and ends up as a raised burr surrounding the hole. Colts have a hardened insert to prevent this happening, Ubertis do not. Just an odd chance that a raised burr may be adding to the quotient of friction the firing pin is trying to overcome.
 
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How about some detailed pictures? I've lightened several Uberti mainsprings to be pretty light and they STILL set of primers easily.

35W
 
Ok Fellas

I put a small lead shim between the mainspring and front strap right above the spring screw to increase the hammer tension and took it out today again with some loads with the Winchester primers Mostly Unique loads but i did load 10 rds with 40 grs of 3f Goex. I fired about 30 rds with the Unique loads with not a single misfire. Switched to the Goex loads and fired one round and the second round was a misfire. Had 4 out of the 10 BP loads misfire. Not even sure what that was all about? I do know that after only 5 rds the cylinder stared getting hard to turn and the hammer hard to cock. I have checked for end shake in the cylinder and there is about .001. I ran a Q-tip through the firing pin hole and no burrs. Barrel cylinder gap is .005, so not excessive. No burrs in the frame where the hammer rides. The new Primers are Federal Large Magnum pistol as i couldn't get Federal standards. But i haven't tried them yet to see how they do. I e-mailed VTI but haven't heard back yet. I know they sell both an Uberti factory replacement and a lightened aftermarket mainspring. I know i ordered the Uberti but i guess their is a slight chance they sent a light one.
 
Putting a shim between the hammer and the frame is the exact opposite of what you want to do. Think about it for a moment. Shimming the hammer that way reduces the amount of flex the spring sees when the hammer is cocked, it does not increase it. Shimming the hammer is a well known technique to lighten the hammer pull, not increase it. Putting a leather shim between the spring and the frame of a SAA is a very old technique to slightly reduce hammer pull.

Why don't you do as I suggest, try some primed cases, don't bother loading up live ammo? Primed cases will behave exactly like live ammo under the hammer, with the added feature that you can fire them at home. I do it all the time to see if hammer fall is strong enough. Works really well with guns that do have a strain screw. I just tweak the screw until ignition becomes reliable. This is with guns that are designed to have a strain screw of course. To reduce the noise, roll up a towel and put it on the floor and plant the muzzle firmly against the towel. There will be a muffled report and a burn mark on the towel, but you can experiment in the basement (or where ever you do your reloading.)

You will notice after firing one that the cylinder tends to bind, that is because there is not enough recoil to reseat the primer (all primers back out, then recoil reseats them). If you just load one at a time into the cylinder, it will not be a problem. Try loading some of those Federal primers into empty cases and see if your percentage of primers that pop is any better.

If you get some primers that do not fire, you can compare the strike to the strike of primers that do fire. Do not keep dropping the hammer on unfired primers, pull those rounds out of the gun so you can compare the strikes to primers that did fire. If the amount of firing pin protrusion you measured is correct, I am beginning to suspect that your firing pin may be short.
 
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Driftwood

I just fired of 10 rd loaded with just the Federal primers with no problem except for the cylinder binding like you said. Nice firing pin indent in them. I am going to load up some live rounds and try them out in the next few days.
As for the shim. I didn't shim between the screw and frame like a washer. I shimmed about 1/2" above the screw between the spring and front strap. Will that still do as you said? The hammer is a little harder to cock with it that way. I also tried different brands of brass and all the chambers in the cylinder and not just one.
 
Oh, that's a novel approach. I never heard of that one. Learn something every day. Clever idea. I'm going to remember that one.

Yes, if you are angling the spring back, which it sounds like you are doing, yes, that probably would have the effect of bending the spring more at full cock than the amount it is bent when mounted to the frame in the normal way. The same precaution applies, do not angle it so much that the roller on the hammer pops out of engagement with the spring when the hammer is all the way down.

The shimming I was talking about was using a spacer to move the spring over horizontally, parallel to its normal mounting position. That has the effect of lessening the amount of bend the spring goes through at full cock. It is normally done with a leather shim.

Again, I am going to suggest not wasting bullets and powder. Load up some more primers into empty cases and fire them in the basement with the towel. It seems to me your goal should be to tweak the hammer spring until you can get it to reliably fire Winchester primers, which are harder to ignite than Federals. That way you will not be tied to a specific brand of primer, you will be able to use either Winchesters or Federals.

You can take the grips off, and keep tweaking the hammer spring to your heart's content in the basement without wasting bullets or powder during the experimental stage. You may want to add to the shim to get Winchester primers to fire reliably. When you arrive at a satisfactory tension for the spring, then go to the range with loaded ammo. The primers will not know the difference whether there is powder and a bullet in front of them. Get the hammer set the way you want it, then load up some ammo and try them at the range.

By the way, you want to be studying primer dents in rounds that did not go off, not dents in ammo where the primer fired. Fired ammo will have a nice dent anyway. You want to be examining the failures, not the successes.
 
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