uberti walker finish problems?

[TheBigAR2003]

i think that ive found the lowest price on the uberti walker on dixie gun works. on one of the reviews i read that after about 4 days the sweat from this guys hand took most of the bluing off of the barrel. has anybody had any similar problems or is this guys hand sweat like acid? dixie gun has the walker for $355
this review is from the dixie gun works site

Problems.

Begins to hurt your hip when it is in a holster there for a while. Good pistol for big game hunting. If you are big game hunting with black powder only. This is a good firearm to keep as a backup if the BIG game starts running after you once you have shot your last and only shot out of your rifle then it is time to pull this pistol and finish the job before getting killed or seriously injured.

Blows so much smoke out the barrel you can not see if you hit your target, unless there is a good light breeze to blow the smoke to the side. This is in a sense very neat if you are reenacting as it will look as though you are shooting a hand cannon.

The bluing on this pistol wears off very easy; the sweat from my hand about took all the bluing of the barrel in only 4 days.

 

[TMC4232]

I purchased two Uberti Walkers back in the late 90's from Navy Arms and never had a problem with the bluing or the quality at all. I currently own a recently made Uberti Walker and the bluing and quality is the same which is very high. The only thing I did to my newest Walker was to strip off the red varnish from the stocks. For some reason Uberti likes to finish most of their stocks with a reddish colored varnish or polycoat. After removing the finish, which was RED in color, what I found underneath was a beautiful piece of natural walnut. I finished it out with Watco Natural Danish Oil using 400 grit wet sand paper (smooth). The grips now look like the ones on my 2nd Generation Colt Walker and are beautiful. I will try to post pics (I just joined this forum tonight). I am also considering to remove the bluing off of the cylinder with vinegar and return it to the "white" as per the finish on orginal Colt Walkers, but am still doing some research on this.

 

[scrat]

The Gout.


the guy has a medical condition called Gout. My father has it. he has had it all his life. He goes through at least 4 watches a year. they get corroded from behind. As far as the bluing if you dont have the Gout then you wouldnt have this problem. two things you can do. 1 deblue the whole gun as Walkers were actually never blued. Then you could polish it out. Or you could buy some cold blueing. You can purchase it from cabelas, midway, dixie gun works. Its really not a hard job to reblue the gun and they actually come out pretty good.

 

[publiuss]

If the guy has gout he knows about it, it is the most painful thing you can imagine. I have had plenty of injuries including a near fatal 60ft. fall and nothing compares to a gout attack. I have never had any problems with blueing removal or watch destruction. Since gout is an extreme form of arthritis I don't know what impact it would have on the external chemical properties of your skin. Sorry, can't help on the blueing problem.

 

[A. Walker]

Walkers were actually never blued

Not sure where you got this information, but it is incorrect. Barrels and backstraps were blued, frame, hammer and loading levers were case hardened. Only the cylinders were left "in the white", as may be seen in this photo of an original Walker (and flask) that recently sold for over $920,000:

Interesting to note that the bluing is quite dark, not the light blue "charcoal blue" seen on many repro Walkers today.

Gout is a condition caused by too much uric acid in the system, resulting in an acidic crystalline build-up in the joints. Mainly due to a diet too rich in protiens, fat and alcohol. Don't know if it makes the sweat more acidic, but it seems likely.

 

[husker]

gout i had it once in my big toe. its crippling man it hurts just thinking about it and its been 20 years ago.

 

[DuncanSA]

Anyone who has had gout knows all about it! Nothing to do with acidic sweat, but a uric acid crystal build-up in the joints. Fortunately there are preventive medications - the one I take is "puricos" but names vary between suppliers and countries. I am sure there are other explanations for the blueing problem.

 

[messerist]

I was a combat Medic in the Army. One day a trooper came up to me and asked why his sweat turned his t-shirts different colors! I did not have an answer for him because I had never heard of such a thing. When I was in college working as a security officer one of my colleagues had a problem with his white work shirts turning a yellowish-red around his neck and under his arms. His doctor said that he had very acidic sweat! There just might be some fact to the gentleman's sweat removing blueing. I will second TMC4232 dislike for the finish on Uberti grips. The 1858 Remington my Wife bought me for Christmas had the most hideous orange peel-looking finish on it's grips. I refinished them and all is right with the world again.

 

[Old Fuff]

A. Walker:

What you see in Post #5 is indeed Charcoal Blue, of the kind used during the 19th Century by Whitney, and later - Colt. One writer at the time referred to it as "a deep liquid pool of black India ink." The blue seen on present day reproductions is not the same, as you pointed out.

 

[PRM]

Gout and acidic sweat??? I have had episodes of the gout for about 20 years. In fact, I take a small pill everyday now - problem solved. If the OP had gout, he would know it, no questions, nothing like it. Last time I had it, I went to the ER and the girl checking me in asked, "How do you know you have the gout?" My response was, "obviously, you have never had it."

Causing acidic sweat. I have never had that problem, t-shirts or with guns.

If the bluing wiped off in 4 days - I would question the bluing process. Regular hot blue from the factory should be more durable.

 

[BHP FAN]

The bluing would come right off if that particular revolver had somehow missed the degreasing process before being blued.Even hot blue won't adhere well to machine oil.

 

[scrat]

A walker your right it was the cylinder was engraved and polished not blued.

 

[DrLaw]

I think I have seen what he is talking about. I saw it on an Uberti-made Beretta Stampede. The gun had that bright medium bluing called Charcoal blue.

Just from people handling it at the gun shop, the bluing wore off the backstrap, which was done in that charcoal blue.

I do not know what process they use, but the deep dark almost black blue is not the same as this charcoal blue. Best way I can describe it is to say that it is slightly darker than the blue of the Uh-oh smilie here on the replies.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Old Fuff]

DrLaw:

Ya' got it a bit backwards:

Charcoal Blue, as done by Colt and others during the 19th and early 20 century is a very dark, lustrous black-blue, with a color way toward the black end of the spectrum.

The blue being used on some current replicas is blue-blue, and almost turquoise in color. During the 19th century it was called “niter blue,” or sometimes “fire blue.” Colt did use it, but only on small parts, such as triggers and screws.

Both of these methods used heat to color the metal, and both of them were entirely different processes.

 

[A. Walker]

Once again I have to ask: How does this blue compare to what is on the guns today? Your descriptions certainly make it sound as if the dark bluing used on today's repros is actually not that far off from what was available in the nineteenth century?

 

[Old Fuff]

A. Walker:

You're not being ignored. I am aware of your alternative thread and it's bookmarked. But sometimes a simple question requires a longer answer to be correctly addressed, and I'm a slow typeist with an overflowing inbox...

Steel is usually colored three ways: (1) The surface is oxidized using chemicals. (2) The surface is oxidized using a heat process, as certain degrees of heat will cause the surface to change color from a light straw to a purple as the temperature is increased within a certain specific range. (3) The surface is coated, examples being a phosphate coating (Parkerizing) or some kind of paint.

Each of these methods will result in different, but sometimes closely related colors, and the subject becomes more complicated because the degree of polishing may affect both the reflectance and the color.

To provide a short answer to A. Walker’s question, with an understanding that it is much too simplified and not entirely satisfactory; Some modern chemical bluing processes produce a color that is far closer to Colt’s charcoal blue then do the heat process being used by the Italian replica makers. That said, no modern blue comes close to exactly duplicating what Colt did during the 19th century.

To digress for a moment: During May of this year the National Rifle Association will be holding its annual convention in Phoenix, Arizona. I strong urge that any of you that can attend that convention do so. The various State Gun Collector Associations will present displays of the very best examples of various historical firearms, many of them centuries old, but in almost like-new condition. You can view these pieces and see the various kinds of original finishes with the best judge of all – your own eyeballs.

If Walker Colts turn you on you will swoon on the spot.

 

[DrLaw]

DrLaw:

Ya' got it a bit backwards:

Charcoal Blue, as done by Colt and others during the 19th and early 20 century is a very dark, lustrous black-blue, with a color way toward the black end of the spectrum.

Not to argue with you, Old Fuff, since I am not in an arguing mind at the moment, but I just wanted to say that I was getting my info on the name of the bluing from the little Uberti catalog that came with my guns.

That's all I have to add right now.

Of course, being a lawyer, do I really know when to shut up? The blue I am refering to about coming right off with just being held is that very bright almost luminescent looking blue, not the dark, dark blue.

Kind of like I have here.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well I know better then to pick a fight with a lawyer, and one from back East yet...

The problem here is Grand Theft, and Felony Highjacking. Those sneaky overseas gun makers have gone and stole the term “charcoal blue” and applied it to a finish they are using that isn’t what Colt did. Quite bluntly, if they used the same process that Colt did the cost would probably be greater then the price ask for the revolver. Add to that the fact that we almost, but not quite know what Colt did because they kept some of the minute details to themselves, and the people who knew have long gone on to their reward.

Black-black and blue-blue are subjective terms that are probably inadequate to properly describe the colors involved, but if you look at the picture that was posted of the original Walker it should be clear that the barrel is noticeably on the black side of the color spectrum, and nothing like what is being represented as being charcoal blue by the replica makers.

Now what we need is a good attorney who will file a motion to stop this outrage…

 

[arcticap]

Here's some examples of the "bluest" looking Stampedes that I could find:



http://www.gun-one.com/guns.htm



http://www.triebel.de/suche.php3?begriff=wgr&value=KR3

 

[Old Fuff]

Good...

Now go look at post #5 and see if in your opinion there is any difference.

The Old Fuff rests his case...

 

[A. Walker]

Here's an original cased Colt London model in VG condition that demonstrates how dark the bluing was:

This, and the original Walker in post #5, among others, lead me to believe that our modern blue-black is not that far off from the nineteenth-century finishes.

I suspect the gentleman in the OP had one of the Uberti Walkers from Cabella's with the modern light blue "Charcoal Blue" finishes. I have a friend with one of these, and the coating is so fragile that he wore the bluing off the grip strap after only a few uses.

 

[DrLaw]

Yep, that second Stampede that Articap put up there has that same bluing that I was talking about as wearing/rubbing right off from just simple handling by people looking at the gun in the store.

That's the one I mean as being the 'Charcoal Blue' as I knew it to be...


...before being educated here, of course.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Old Fuff]

So we sue... Right???

Actually what you see on the Uberti Stampede is what Colt would have called, "Fire Blue."

 

[messerist]

I bought my Walker when I worked at Cabela's in the blackpowder/archery department. They day I purchased it all the reps were there for our annual sidewalk sale. The rep who worked for the company that supplied Uberti/Benelli products told me that the bluing was designed to fade over time and with use to a grey patina like you would find in an antique revolver. I can not vouch for the reps accuracy in this statement it is just what he told me. Have any of you heard of this? I've been banging away with my Walker for five years and it shows no sign of the bluing changing to grey.

 

[Old Fuff]

I’ll let you in on an awful truth…

The Old Fluff is a blabbermouth of the worst sort. Over the years he learned a lot of the old timer’s secrets, and once he found out it was secret no more. He would tell just about anybody who was interested. Col. Colt must be spinning in his grave.

Fireblue was indeed easy to wear off, and underneath the metal was gray. To protect the blue a very thin layer of lacquer was applied on top of the blue. This didn’t solve the problem, but it helped. Colt also restricted the process to small parts such as screws, triggers, and such.

I don’t think that Uberti does this. In the unlikely event that I acquired a fireblued revolver I would take some Tru-Oil (used to refinish wood), thin it a bit, and wipe on a coat or two over the carefully degreased metal. It would wear of course, but it wouldn’t be hard to touch up.

Now a word to the wise… Never, ever tell the Old Fuff anything you don’t want to get out. After Al Gore invented the Internet he’s just gone hog wild…