UK. Gun-loving teacher is struck off (fired) amid fear of massacre

[gunsmith]

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Gunloving-teacher-is-struck-off.3611599.jp

the article paints this guy pretty bad, but then again, the press treats us gun owners pretty bad anyway.

Gun-loving teacher is struck off amid fear of massacre

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By ALISTAIR MUNRO
A TEACHER police feared could become "the next Thomas Hamilton" has been banned from the profession.
Firearms enthusiast Stewart Nicoll, 56, is to be struck off by the General Teaching Council for Scotland after being found guilty of professional misconduct at Grantown Grammar in the Highlands.

He had previously been suspended by the local authority on full pay after his civil case against the police to win back his guns hit the headlines.

Police had revoked his gun licences three years ago because of his extreme right-wing views. They were concerned the modern studies teacher might embark on a murder-suicide similar to that committed by Hamilton, who killed 16 children and a teacher at Dunblane primary school in 1996.

The firearms certificates had been revoked because of the "propaganda and indoctrination" to which Mr Nicoll subjected pupils at Grantown Grammar, which he joined in 1979.

During lessons he showed pupils aged 13 and 14 SAS tapes of dead bodies and videos of the 1999 Columbine massacre in which 13 people died in the United States.

He was also said to have repeatedly played video footage of the assassination of US president John F Kennedy.

It was reported Mr Nicoll had expressed offensive views about black and disabled people and was unwilling to moderate his views or contemplate the idea he could be wrong.

During a court bid to have his licences returned, Norman Phillips, a solicitor for Northern Constabulary, claimed Mr Nicoll's life also bore frightening similarities to that of Michael Ryan, the so-called Hungerford killer, who killed 14 people in 1987.

He was described as a "rigid, unflinching individual who, to a large extent, always considered himself to be right".

The teacher resigned from the school two-and-a-half years ago, shortly before he was due to face an internal Highland Council disciplinary hearing.

A disciplinary panel of the General Teaching Council for Scotland met in Edinburgh and found Mr Nicoll had behaved in an inappropriate manner towards pupils.

A source at the school yesterday revealed a catalogue of inappropriate behaviour that had sparked the disciplinary action.

He said: "There were issues related t
o his conduct in the classroom and how appropriate his behaviour was towards people in the school."

Staff were also said to be terrified that he kept weapons in the boot of his car while it was parked at the school.

And on one occasion, he is reported to have challenged a teaching colleague to a fight after he implied Mr Nicoll was homosexual.

A GTC spokesman confirmed Mr Nicoll would be struck off the teaching register for "relevant misconduct" in early January.

He said: "Mr Nicoll is currently still registered and has 28 days to appeal to the Court of Session if he so wishes. If no appeal is lodged, removal will take place.

"Should Mr Nicoll be removed from the register, after 12 months it is open to him to apply to the disciplinary sub-committee to be restored to the register of teachers."

However, no such appeal has been lodged since the panel ruled on 10 December.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Good lord, I hope I'm never in the UK for more than 10 days.

 

[gunsmith]

I wonder if extreme left wing views get treated the same way?

And I am sick and tired of the racist socialist nazi party being portrayed as right wing when they were a socialist "workers" party.

 

[Autolycus]

Gunsmith: A little reading might help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right

Anyways it does sound like this was warranted. The man threated violence for simply being called a name.

I also might not want my children to watch videos of the Columbine massacre or videos of SAS soldiers engaging terrorists. Not to mention a teacher making comments about other races or disabled people.

I dont think that they were wrong in firing him or being concerned, especially since he threatened violence over something trivial. They know he has firearms so they were reasonably worried.

 

[gunsmith]

I've read quite a bit Tec, thanks anyway.

While wicki may call the National Socialist German Workers Party, (the Nazi's)"right wing"
The Nazi's called themselves SOCIALIST!
The Nazi Party platform had much more in common with the left then with the right.
http://rightwingrocker.blogspot.com/2005/09/25-points-of-nazism-who-you-callin.html

Every revolution has its counterrevolution - that is a sign the revolution is for real. - C. Wright Mills

Yeah, and modern liberalism is the counter revolution to the American Revolution.

Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. -
Noam Chomsky

Noam Chomsky?? I've looked and looked and I can not find anything by that guy that supports RKBA. It is a sophomoric quote, I'm surprised some one as smart as he seems to be would be so childish.

Jesus Was A Long Haired, Peace Loving, Anti Establishment, Liberal, Hippie Freak With Strange Ideas. Everything Conservatives Hate.

Just because stupid, smelly,Liberal, Hippie Freaks With Strange Ideas believe this, doesn't make it true...not by a long shot.

 

[gunsmith]

suspicious quote

It was reported Mr Nicoll had expressed offensive views about black and disabled people and was unwilling to moderate his views or contemplate the idea he could be wrong.

Liberals get offended so easy it is hard to be sure what the "offensive views" are.
News papers quite often say something like "a man robbed the store" because liberals would be offended by "a black man robbed the store"

It is sometimes quite difficult to keep up with the various newspeak, for instance he may have said "crippled" instead of "disabled"

 

[woodybrighton]

the UK's two spree killings were carried out by legal gun owners
this time the system worked pity the police didn't have the balls to take guns off hamilton

threating violence a CLM
owning guns and showing any interest in columbine extreme CLM
the british far right do so love to dress up in paramilitary garb and just like being a communist may find keeping legal weapons a tad difficult
its hard to gain access to legal fire arms in the UK so behaving like a dick will get them taken off you good.

 

[NASCAR_MAN]

According to the BBC, this teacher taught Modern Studies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4063305.stm):

Modern Studies is defined as follows:

Modern studies is the social, political and economic study of local, national and international issues. Modern Studies is unique to the Scottish Schools curriculum.

http://www.msa-scotland.co.uk/

So...it appears that his subject matter was well within the scope of the course.

The rest of the article is just a slash piece designed to smear the man's character. I was especially appalled at the statement: Police had revoked his gun licences three years ago because of his extreme right-wing views.

Shame on any of you for buying the UK's political-correctness BS.

 

[NASCAR_MAN]

woodybrighton
Senior Member

threating violence a CLM
owning guns and showing any interest in columbine extreme CLM
===============================

What is a CLM - some kind of UK Thought Crime? I certainly never reaqd where this man was charged with a actual crime.

 

[jpk1md]

Its now a crime in the UK to "Think" impure thoughts.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Good lord, I hope I'm never in the UK for more than 10 days.

You couldn't pay me to go there for ten seconds.

 

[HKUSP45C]

What is a CLM - some kind of UK Thought Crime?

Career Limiting Move. Anything you do at work that is a bad idea and gets negative notice of your superiors and prevents you from rising further is a CLM and some are CEs (or Career Enders).

 

[Neo-Luddite]

It seems to me mostly an attempt to further cement the UK-termed 'gun culture' to the actions of an (on the face of things) teacher who engaged in providing in-appropriate classroom materials and instruction.

The fact that the guy is into guns seems more tangential to the story than other issues of his conduct and character--but the 'gun' issue seems to be taken as the man's main flaw in the tone of the piece.

No, he doesn't sound like a guy I'd want around my kids' school or neighborhood either.

Did he get his firearms back?

 

[6_gunner]

First of all, Nazis and similar parties are not right wing; they are left wing. If Wikipedia says otherwise, that just demonstrates that it is not a reliable resource. Extreme right wing=anarchy; extreme left wing=total government control. I'll keep repeating this until people understand.

Back on topic, it is appalling that someone's privacy can be violated and his possessions confiscated just because of his political views! You guys in Britain need to start handing out copies of Orwell's 1984! People will find it eerily familiar.

It's sad that there are so many places on earth that I'd like to visit, but that I'll avoid because of their oppressive governments. My ancestors were Irish, and I'd love to visit the British isles, but I won't as long as they continue to be a socialist nightmare.

I sure feel for you guys who have to endure that kind of environment.

 

[Tommygunn]

Gunsmith: A little reading might help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right

Wikipedia ... there's an excellent source.
The Nazi's were left-wing socialists. The term "Nazi" is short for "Nationale sozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei," or "National SOCIALIST German Worker's Party." Socialism is left-wing. In fact, Hitler and Stalin were BOTH left-wingers; the difference being that Hitler was a national socialist and Stalin was an international socialist; was those differences (and other pertinent historical and personality factors) that caused Hitler to stab his friend Stalin in the back and invade the U.S.S.R.
Fascism is often viewed as right-wing, but it's actually just another iteration of left wingism. All this is considered to be extremely far leftwing when compared to traditional leftwing politics in America ... though as some may observe, the differneces seem less than what they used to be. Given how government is so prone to regulation of business these days, a good argument can be made that we are actually quite fascist in many areas.
The Wiki article was interesting, but made several blunders.
The political spectrum runs basically from leftwing/statism/fascism to the right into conservatism/libertarianism. That's somewhat of a simplification in itself, but this is hardly a grad school Poli-Sci thesis.

 

[macFarlaine]

I don't get upset anymore when I read articles like this.We are past the point of no return where firearms are concerned in the UK.
I love my hunting,shooting,I live 50yds away from where I hunt,nobody bothers me and I do likewise..

 

[mp510]

Wikipedia ... there's an excellent source.
The Nazi's were left-wing socialists. The term "Nazi" is short for "Nationale sozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei," or "National SOCIALIST German Worker's Party. Socialism is left-wing. In fact, Hitler and Stalin were BOTH left-wingers; the difference being that Hitler was a national socialist and Stalin was an international socialist; was those differences (and other pertinent historical and personality factors) that caused Hitler to stab his friend Stalin in the back and invade the U.S.S.R.
Fascism is often viewed as right-wing, but it's actually just another iteration of left wingism. All this is considered to be extremely far leftwing when compared to traditional leftwing politics in America ... though as some may observe, the differneces seem less than what they used to be. Given how government is so prone to regulation of business these days, a good argument can be made that we are actually quite fascist it many areas.
The Wiki article was interesting, but made several blunders.
The political spectrum runs basically from leftwing/statism/fascism to the right into conservatism/libertarianism. That's somewhat of a simplification in itself, but this is hardly a grad school Poli-Sci thesis.

I took a minute and looked up the ANP website, and spent a couple minutes surfing it, lookin at their propoganda, and the pages themselvelves. They put a lot of emphasis on the worker, and workers rights. They even had one poster that was very against wealthy, elite, members of society- that seemed to push for a more equal distribution of wealth in America (sounds rather Communist to me). They also talk about enviromentalism- like Hitler they are enviromentalists.

Where they do pass as right wingers is on their race hating. The modern left is very freindly to non-whites. We all know these guys aren't. They also hate immigration- like most rightists. They also tend to be pro-gun (for whites at least) as well.

 

[WildeKurt]

If one looks at the 'political spectrum' on three dimensions, i.e. Nolan Chart, I think the German Nazi Party was more populist (totalitarian) in practice.

In the US both the so-called left and so-called right practice neo-liberal and neo-conservative politics. Both of these are very similar except where foreign policy and military spending are concerned. (This theory is based on actions, not the words. Not what they say they're going to do, but actually do)

Are we far enough of topic now?

 

[Tommygunn]

Where they do pass as right wingers is on their race hating. The modern left is very freindly to non-whites. We all know these guys aren't. They also hate immigration- like most rightists. They also tend to be pro-gun (for whites at least) as well.

While the right wing has certainly had more than it's fill of racists, don't kid yourself; the left-wing has it's racists too. They're often more sublime than the right-wing version and almost always find forgiveness by the lame-stream media for a song and dance.
What's the difference between Senators Byrd and Lott?????
Party affiliation .... Oh, and Lott never belonged to the KKK so far as I know

 

[Roswell 1847]

The modern left is very freindly to non-whites

Sucking up and playing on their fears in order to exploit them at the polls isn't friendly, its patronizing which indicates distain.
Also using propaganda to try to erase from the minds of Black People the fact that the Democratic Party were the ones who fought to keep them as slaves and used KKK terrorism and the Jim Crow Laws to prevent them from participating in the Democratic Process.
The Liberals in the US also used Abortion as Stealth Genocide in the early 20th Century.
Remember Hitler was only against abortion when it applied to Aryan births, the NAZI mandated abortion of the so-called "Undermenschen". Like Darwin they longed for the day that the "Lesser Races of Men" would disappear to make way for their Supermen.
Eugenics is raising its ugly head again as the British debate whether a couple can abort a child because of an easily treatable birth defect.

You'll find that more and more Black People are getting wise to the Lefties pseudo Liberalism.

 

[hopkin]

Extreme right wing=anarchy; extreme left wing=total government control. I'll keep repeating this until people understand.

The Nazi's were left-wing socialists. The term "Nazi" is short for "Nationale sozialistische deutsche Arbeiterpartei," or "National SOCIALIST German Worker's Party." Socialism is left-wing.

Good grief. Talk about grasping at straws.

The far right is monarchy, not anarchy - read your history. The Nazis were hardly 'socialist' despite their name, in the same way the Democratic People's Republic of Korea isn't democratic.

Why am I bothering? I forget that anything labled right wing must be good and anything bad, from TV re-runs to kittens dying, is the fault of liberals, the left and/or bill clinton. Edit: and the UN. Edit again:

 

[woodybrighton]

bloke was probably a very pro gun conservative type of bloke.
thats never going to go down to well in education circuits.
Shooting anything other than Olympic target style or NRA bisley type shoots and you might as well head straight for the mall as far as the media and your employers are concerned.
I'm retraining to be a teacher and if I ever get so much as an air rifle it would never be mentioned at any school none of there business. If he kept weapons in his car thats a breech of his firearms certificate there and then:banghead:

 

[Tommygunn]

Good grief. Talk about grasping at straws.

The far right is monarchy, not anarchy - read your history. The Nazis were hardly 'socialist' despite their name, in the same way the Democratic People's Republic of Korea isn't democratic.

Why am I bothering? I forget that anything labled right wing must be good and anything bad, from TV re-runs to kittens dying, is the fault of liberals, the left and/or bill clinton. Edit: and the UN. Edit again:

Grasping at straws? Hardly. And there's nothing in this political spectrum involving monarchy at all. Monarchies pre-date this political spectrum anyway, so that's just anachronistic.
By their own words the Nazis were socialists. Sure the North Koreans, the "Peoples Republic" in N. Korea isn't a "democracy;" neither are we, and both are irrelevant to this consideration. The Nazis, as well as Mussolini's Fascists and Stalin's Communists were in effect one thing; totalitarians.
The Nazis were socialists in how they treated industry and enterprise (bsiness) in Germany, and in this they were indeed socialists, as the Italian Fascists were indeed Fascists for like reasons in WW2 Italy.
I never said everything "right wing" was good and "leftwing" was bad. I guess Bill Clinton was terrific, though, if you like skirt-chasing liars who can't remain loyal to their wives and treat the 2nd amendment as though it was toilet paper.
Learn your own history before telling me what to read.

 

[NASCAR_MAN]

woodybrighton wrote:
If he kept weapons in his car thats a breech of his firearms certificate there and then
===================================

Where did it say that - for a fact - he kept weapons in his car - or - that he said he kept weapons in his car?

Likewise, I could make equally damaging statements about you to the effect: "I am afraid of this teacher - who is so obsessed with guns and shooting. I am afraid he might use his air rifle and his position as a teacher to harm children under his supervision - especially the smallest and most vulnerable".

See where this kind of sickness leads?

 

[woodybrighton]

6gunner re nazis being left wing

Socialism and nationalism are by definition mutually exclusive concepts. The Nazis had no socialistic policies in practice at all, but did articulate as part of their early propaganda opposition to capitalism (and to the supposed fantastical Jewish/liberal/communist conspiracy to control the World).

I think what really muddies the water in people's eyes is not so much the Nazi's calling themselves National Socialists but the practice and policies of regimes calling themselves socialist/communist and labeled 'left-wing'. Such regimes as the USSR, People's Republic of China etc have been hierarchically, militaristic, expansionist and nationalist - all right-wing concepts. Indeed China today is also very capitalist by any definition (leaving aside the arguments around State capitalism).

By contrast 'liberal' capitalism claims to be the safe guarder of democracy, freedom of expression, individual liberty etc. A claim that can be easily dismantled, provided your alternative reference point is not the totalitarian regimes whether labeled 'right' or 'left'.