Unfortunate encounter at the range.

[TAB]

Any time some one says they are an off duty police offers, ask them for thier name, agency and badge number. I've delt with alot of them that thought they could get me do to something simply by saying they were cop. 9 out of 10x it will stop the guy from trying to throw his wieght around.

( mainly has to do with making noise as I'm in construction, law say I can start at 7, I'll start exactly at 7.)

 

[Funderb]

Again, public range, no RO, it is un-monitored, provided by my taxes.

There is no law / range rule dictating what he said. I read all the clearly posted rules.

I'm not going to pester someone over 21 to come with me when it isn't required.
But I appreciate your comments.

No one showed up on our side of the wall while we were down range, or just before. I try to be considerate and observant, and would have stopped shooting if someone wanted to set up.

Again, legal to posses a handgun here, I can even keep it in the car at 18.

Either way, the 8 months till I turn 21 can't come much slower.

 

[Grizfire]

What a jerk I say, cop or not. It may have been fine for him to comment about you guys going down range, but the interrogation was uncalled for.


Off duty cop: You guys don't belong here unless your 21....

Off duty dermatologist: You need to get that growth looked at...

Off duty banker: That isn't a properly endorsed check sir....

Off duty Teacher: Shouldn't you boys be at home studying...



Just leave people alone already!

 

[Geno]

Praise the Lord! If that guy hadn't stayed at a Holiday Inn before coming to the rescue of you three wet-behind-the-ear gun-toters, who knows how dead you all might have ended up! Hades...you all coulda shot-your-eyes-out! No cop-bashin' here either!

Edit to be serious.

When I go shooting, I have a copy of MI's hunting rules/laws for the year, and a map of the state land I happen to be hunting. I actually had to use if once when an LEO in uniform interrupted my varmint hunting. It wasn't the smartest durned thing the man ever did, not knowing the direction of flying projectiles.

As I scanned 360 degrees for the next sparrow to shoot, the LEO hit the dirt. He refused to reveal himself. To that end, and not knowing where he crawled off to, I had to unload my rifle, and return to my vehicle. I stood there, beside his cruiser for about 10 minutes, and yelled out to him that I had disarmed myself and was waiting for him eventually to emerge.

We (I) then discussed Michigan's "Do Not Disturb Hunters" law. Better as a shootist to be prepared

Geno

 

[KarenTOC]

As I read the OP's story, I had a totally different interpretation of what happened:

"I'm an off-duty police officer" was the cop's way of stating his credentials:
"I know about gun safety because I'm a professional"

rather than as a prelude to arrest:
"You in a heap'o'trouble, boy"

followed by a seemless transition to an over-the-top lecture from dad:
"Don't you know how many things can go wrong? How many times have your mother and I told you not to do that? You could poke someone's eye out! Just wait until your mother hears about this!"

On the other hand, my interpretation could simply be another of those male-female brain pattern differences that are now so politically incorrect to notice

 

[winston smith]

You handled it just fine; better than I would have. You took the high road.

He was right about safety, but presented it to you all wrong. Sad that someone who has to deal with the public every day has so little talent- or training- in that crucial area.

Follow what safety advise he gave you, forgive him for talking like a jerk, and pat yourself on the back for behaving better than he did.

As for your friends, if they truly are your friends, they will feel bad for you that you were humilliated, but will respect you for the way you responded.

Good work!

 

[Rockwell1]

As stated earlier, " I'm an off duty police officer" is answered by "May I see your credentials please". That very likely would have ended the encounter.

If it didn't I'd have asked him what law he suspected me of breaking and , as others have said, if he couldn't come up with one I would have left right then & there.

As others have said the behavior wasn't right, it doesn't fit with police behavior. I'd have been very suspicious. And even though this didn't come up, I would not have surrendered my weapons under any circumstance.

 

[jerkface11]

"I'm an off-duty police officer" was the cop's way of stating his credentials:
"I know about gun safety because I'm a professional"

He was probably even professional enough to handle a glock fotay.

 

[FlyinBryan]

and if I am not mistaken, there lies some tricky sarcasm in the posts by flyinbryan

lol, ya.

either way though, it made me laugh.

lol, ya, ive been plagued with a dry sense of humor.



i think you handled your encounter well, and probably better than i would have.

i know there are good cops out there, but i honestly believe there are just as many that are totally useless, if not menacing.

i suppose my opinion is somewhat biased, and unfairly so, but the only cop in my family laughs about the dispair of the homeless, acts like he is superior to everyone else in the family at normal gatherings.

fortunately, he dont come around much anymore. he has a habit of beating the crap out of his wife, including knocking out most of her front teeth over the years. as a result of knowing that we all know about it, he doesnt feel comfortable around us anymore.

 

[kirkcdl]

I would have said"I was pulled over once by a guy pretending to be a cop.With all due respect,may I please see some ID so I know you're for real?"If he produced it,I'd politely thank him,and listen carefully.If he wouldn't produce it,for whatever reason,I'd make the call about someone impersonating an officer.If his coworkers arrived and he was a real cop,I'd complain to his supervisor about why he refused to ID himself...Regardless,I'd complain to whoever owns/operates the range about harassment while I was trying to enjoy the facilities...

 

[Prince Yamato]

I understand your frustration. The truth is, he couldn't have done anything to you. He can't confiscate your guns. If he didn't have a radio, he couldn't call for backup. Think about it... you outnumber him AND you're armed. If you wanted real trouble, he'd be dead. He doesn't seem like a wise police officer, that's for sure. I suspect he might have been someone impersonating a police officer; maybe just to free up the range so he could use it.

Next time, politely ask for a badge.

The loaded guns while you are walking downrange... honestly, if nobody is touching them, they're on a solid surface, and you're the only guys there... I don't think that's a big deal. Guns don't go off by themselves. I would have politely suggested that you unload them before you go downrange but if you're the only people there, hey, it's your lives if one of your bud's shoots you, not mine.

 

[Hk91-762mm]

You say your tax dollars paid for the range --You say you only have to be 18 to shoot there --
NOW get the rules and go shooting-Take a note pad and write everything down -Next time call them out and file a lawsuit if your in the right -! it only take 1 time to shut em up !
lawsuits are not just for the enemy

 

[bluetopper]

After you answered each question you should have asked him the same question right back.

 

[BFE]

My .02 cents worth for what it's worth.
At this point it makes no difference if he or you were right as long as what was learned has a place in mind next time and there after when you are at the range. There was no need to get in a pi$$ing match with the guy but wrong or right you did learn from the experience.

 

[mljdeckard]

The way you feel is perfectly understandable. I think you are being reasonable and trying to do the right thing. I think you are doing it better than a lot of 20 year-olds. Despite being embarrassed, you didn't get mad and do something stupid.

It's a little bit tough to tell if you really did anything stupid. Were the rules clearly posted? Did they have signs posted that said something to the effect of, there are cease fires, do not go downrange until all weapons are clear and the all-clear is given? If there WERE, then you do need to pay more attention. If there WEREN'T, than it is the responsibility of those who run the range, be it this OD cop or whomever, to take reasonable measures to make sure that everyone who enters the range knows the rules. Stop everyone at the gate. Tell them, "We have a cease-fire every 15 minutes. The next one is in 8." Even something like that. I THINK, that if you are going to expect people to know when to know when the range is supposed to be clear, then you must have safeties and clear commands. If you don't, you are going to have to leave people to their common sense.

I think over time you will get over the cop's dressing-down. He wasn't a total jerk to you, and he cares enough to stop people who are doing something unsafe. He could have been a lot worse.

 

[Dookie]

You have no duty or legal obligation to speak to him when he presents himself as a police officer. Since he was coming at you in an official capacity you could, and should have said, "I will be calling my attorney. What is your badge number?", that's your official capacity.

He was just throwing his weight around, if it happens again, get his badge number and file an official complaint since he has no reason to be, 1: asking for ID, 2: asking your age, 3: Threatening you with tickets.
You were doing nothing wrong, according to your post. He probably wanted the lanes all for himself and his buddies and thought he could run you off easily.

 

[Tirod]

I think you did a really great job.

I have shot at divided ranges, one side didn't give a hoot what the other did. It was divided precisely to allow that.

Knowing the range rules and local law will help out a lot - especially if you were doing things right.

And introducing yourself to get the other person's name puts things in a new scene - you can check later if someone is being out of their lane about the rules and bring it up to their supervisor. Dad's are real good people to ally with that.

"Yes, Chief, my boy was legally shooting out at the public range when Officer Deke Haid admonished him about his presence there and how he was in violation of a non-existant rule . . "

Of course, we'd all have to be lucky to get our ducks in a row for that to happen.

So, you did good - polite, cleaning up, no obvious disrespect, etc. Keep up the good work, we need more shooters like that. Check the rules and laws, you never know, you might have been given a pass by a nice guy.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Your were really nice. Way back when I was 20 I would have Told him this is a public Range and unless you have some ID you can kiss my 6. So take a hike.

 

[spyder1911]

If you know that you did nothing wrong, you should file a police report. Impersonating a police officer is a very serious crime and since you never saw an ID card or badge, there is a very good chance he is impersonating. Also, check to see if the range has surveillance cameras showing this man.

Edit-I see there is no RO, maybe ask around to see if any regulars know who he is?

 

[Macmac]

Curious.....

How long were you there over all?

Who of each group was there first?

Did the other group ever call out a Cease Fire to change targets?

I can see you didn't call that out..

 

[AJumbo]

You did a fine job. LEO or not, he seemed to be on the prod, and is probably one of those ignorant types you shouldn't argue with, cuz he'd probably just drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. My questions are these:

-My local range does not allow holstered handguns on the "general" range, does yours? Holstered handguns are fine on the Practical range.

-My range is run by a Range Officer who controls when the range is "cold" or "hot." The RO for the general range has nothing to do with what is is happening on the other ranges, and shouldn't; he's busy enough already.

-Have you checked to see that the range actually requires you to be of a certain age before you can use the facility?

-Did the gentleman offer to show any LEO ID? He may be guilty of impersonating a police officer.

-My only criticism: not many ranges like to see folks wingshooting with .22s or any other solid projectile-shooting firearm.

 

[Bailey Guns]

Man- "You guys all walked down range while we still had loaded weapons on our side, thats how people get killed, and it is stupid."

Funny...I had a "loaded weapon on my side" for over 15 years as a cop. No one ever died because of it.

I've had a loaded weapon on my side for 8 years carrying concealed. No one ever died because of it.

Maybe that should be safety rule #5:

"Ensure a loaded weapon isn't on your side because they kill people and it's stupid."

I vote he was just feeling a little badge-heavy that day...maybe trying to impress his friends. Who knows?

 

[Claude Clay]

............i'm an off duty cop

me saying---wow, my dads on duty now [ as i flip my cell open]. who shall i say is talking to his son?

no kidding, you did just fine. if you had verbably pushed him he would of either folded or jacked you up so he could save face.

 

[rbernie]

At this point it makes no difference if he or you were right as long as what was learned has a place in mind next time and there after when you are at the range. There was no need to get in a pi$$ing match with the guy but wrong or right you did learn from the experience.

I concur. We should probably spend less time trying to be right and more time trying to find the lesson in each experience.

 

[jcwit]

Having a loaded (hot) rifle, pistol, shotgun, whatever on the line out of the case ready for use is a whold different deal than having a holstered weapon on your side.

Ever wonder why they make holsters for bolts in regards to bolt action rifles? Its to keep the bolt clean while its removed from the action while the line is cold for whatever reason. Further more no handling of weapons permited while the range is cold. Safety first.

Bullseye pistol shooting requires an action open flag inserted into the barrel under cold conditions.

With all this being said I do believe the dude was having an ego problem as I stated earlier.