Unintended Consequences

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I think some of you have lead pretty sheltered lives if you think that the sex scenes are too over the top in UC.
I have read the book a couple of times, and probably given close to a dozen as gifts, that’s how good I think it is.
Do you have to be somewhat interested in the subject/story to want to read it and enjoy it,......
OF COURSE!! if you are not why are you reading it!
Just my $.02.
Good work JR, looking forward to the next book.
Obe One
 
Every time and in every forum, when it comes to critiquing U.C. the same comments seem to come up. It's almost too funny!

If you want a real world story, then real world stuff absolutely has to intrude. Life is not a pleasent stroll down the beach. It's full of despicable things, that we tend to push back out of conscience thought. When we read about these things, oft times it brings up themes we would rather not deal with. Or be reminded of.

Kinky sex. It happens. It happens more than we care to admit. We turn a blind eye to it. Sometimes it up and slaps us in the face and we scream about it. Tough. It's the real world.

Politicians may not all be such sex-crazed idiots as a certain character (or two) in the novel, but, there are some who are. Just like some in other fields of work. Just like life itself. There is another thing about these scenes that perhaps you didn't catch. In the real world, such people who wield power are known by others for their sexual escapades. They are known, and they are not looked at too closely. It sends a real message to others like them, when they die in a manner that promotes their unlooked at lifestyle. There is a definite political statement here.

Henry Bowman. He was gang raped. It actually happens, and as a society, we often tend not to believe such things can happen to a man. It is a false stereotype we have painted for ourselves. Henry goes on to conduct self defense classes for women (and men). And he does so with the real world knowledge of being a victim of just such an attack. People may not ask, but they can certainly tell that the instructor of such classes knows of what he or she is talking about. There are many subtle nonverbal clues that tell us. Henry was a success at that, because of his prior experience.

Think about the gun handling classes that some of you have taken. Would you credit your instructors with real knowledge of what they are teaching? Or have you met some blowhards that are simply "book learned," and therefore less credible than they could have been? Same concept.

As for writing these things, it's called charactor development. Without which any writing tends to fall flat on its face. A story like U.C. must encompass all the warts that our world contains, else it is simply not a believable story. That is what makes U.C. stand out. It has warts. It's ugly in parts. But to skip over the warts, would lend it nothing more than a fairy tale likeness. For its intended audience, U.C. is a good,if not great, novel.

Still, some of you will not like it. It tends to rip off those social blinders we all like to wear. It creates controversy. And that, is what a good novel is supposed to do. This book was written for adults, living in an adult world. To take out those unseemly parts would have relegated the book to the children's section, and I daresay, we would not be talking about it in the same light we do now.
 
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I think some of you have lead pretty sheltered lives if you think that the sex scenes are too over the top in UC.
I have read the book a couple of times, and probably given close to a dozen as gifts, that’s how good I think it is.



I agree with you ObeOne, I just bought the book from Amazon.com as a gift for my son.

I spent 22 years in the Army and 3 years in Nam........if I were to write a book about my R&R's and post it here .........I would be banned...........but damn I had fun........and for you holier than thou folks........I was single until after I retired from the army.
 
Beethoven, you must have skimmed it. The homo rape incident, the regular rape incident and torture, multiple lesbianism episodes, sexual torture of gov't officials ... just to mention a few.

No offense man but I've read more "twisted" sexual escapades in a cheap romance novel that my sister had as a teenager. UC didn't have a paragraph that started with, 'She could feel the warmth growin in her flowery honey pot of love and the feeling of his blah blah blah made her feel that the Mississippi river was breaking through her blah blah blah." Read a Danielle Steele novel for more details, heck they aren't even in the adult section :rolleyes:

You wanna see homosexual rape, turn on Rescue Me and see how one of the main characters is almost raped by a sick individual. Go watch Sex and The City, there is plenty of sex in there that will get you riled up. Lesbian encounters, gay men, oh my! Just remember, those things happen and for many people they are the norm. Read it with an open mind and just remember, nobody is asking you to engage in that activity.

There is plenty of lesbian sex going on, homosexual rape, kinky sex, and heaven forbid, some people really enjoy it. The simple fact of the matter is that people have sex and John Ross would have been direlect in not writing about it. I can't believe that it is so difficult to fathom that two women who work in a sexual environment like a strip club would have sex with each other and another man. I knew a girl who worked at a strip club to make money during college, man, when she asked me to go shopping with her was I in for a surprise. You wanna talk about a totally different concept of modesty when trying on... um... clothes? :eek:

Remember it is a novel designed to make a point, I think that driving home the point of always being aware and carrying a weapon is driven home very well by the rape of Bowman and the sexual servitude of the girl (can't remember her name). Welcome to real sexual episodes, they have been going on for centuries whether you believe it or not.
 
I really don't see the problem. By definition, every red-blooded American male *is a lesbian*. ;)
Biker
 
I liked it. Like real life, bad things happen, the things that happen to people are what make them do what they do. I see Henry driven by his shame of and fear of his assault as an integral part of the plot. I consider the history of his accomplice to be needed as motivational clarification.
I thought the plot was well done. I liked the way he tied the motives of the characters into the story. Not every person has the ability to be an assassin. Extreme circumstances make extreme people. JR tied their thoughts and actions together very well.
If you object to the amount of sex in this book you must not read much, or watch much TV that you approve of. This book is not written for children. I do not understand how anyone could complain about the few sex portions, and accept the graphic violence of the book.

I like it. I consider it well written. I think it is all well connected with a smooth progression of Who, What, Where, When, and Why. My copy is on my list of books to read again. I hope this is not the blueprint for the future history that we will have to follow to regain control of our government.

I will read his next book too. Thank you for a good read, Mr. Ross.
 
I like it. I consider it well written. I think it is all well connected with a smooth progression of Who, What, Where, When, and Why. My copy is on my list of books to read again. I hope this is not the blueprint for the future history that we will have to follow to regain control of our government.

I will read his next book too. Thank you for a good read, Mr. Ross.

Same here. Beats the hell out of anything Tom Clancy wrote, and if there was any justice in the world, UC would be bigger than Clancy's books.

So, when is the sequel due? :evil:
 
All the non-standard sex I remember in UC was either character development or part of a plausible frame to dissuade anyone related to the deceased from wanting a thorough investigation.

There's a difference between not wanting to participate in some type of sex, or use drugs, or kill someone, and refusing to read a book in which those things occur. If you can't separate the two, I'm surprised you can read anything without being offended at least once per page.

If you can't stand the sexual content of UC, how can you possibly tolerate Heinlein? How can you tolerate the mere theme of Lolita, or do you not recognize even that as good literature?

There are good books that do not contain sex, but there are also a lot of good books with sex, with "abnormal" sex, with drug use, with all forms of other "moral degeneracy." If you can't at least tolerate that, then you'll miss out on a lot.
 
Kinky sex. It happens. It happens more than we care to admit.
No way. This is the land of apple pie, and kinky sex has nothing to do with apple pie. I bet it's one of those european things. Yet another reason to close the border. :)

I propose a group called the "Sons of Apple Pie," whose goal it will be to force Mr. Ross (by any means necessary, of course) to publish his next book through a european publisher, and to get Congress to ban its importation.
 
If you want a real world story, then real world stuff absolutely has to intrude. Life is not a pleasent stroll down the beach. It's full of despicable things, that we tend to push back out of conscience thought.
My point was that I wanted to like the main protagonist, but because he started with the sadistic murder stuff, I could not. If a man needs killing, just kill him. Who wants to read about the guy devising ways to torture someone to death?
 
I like it. I consider it well written. I think it is all well connected with a smooth progression of Who, What, Where, When, and Why. My copy is on my list of books to read again. I hope this is not the blueprint for the future history that we will have to follow to regain control of our government.

I will read his next book too. Thank you for a good read, Mr. Ross

As far as "Kinky sex" 1) It was related to plot excessive detail was not used 2) sex is an integral part of real life.

And last but definetly not least 3) if you think the sex in UC was kinky in the imortal words of Bachman Turner Overdrive "You ain't seen nothing yet" :)

I base the above statement on over 2 decades of medical imaging in hospitals , Photography, X-Ray and Nuclear Medicine. Some of the things that people do to themselves and/or others for thrills ( sexual or otherwise ) span a very broad range. :what:
 
Mad Man responded with:
Lots of people who have never been raped teach self-defense classes. Being raped is not a pre-requisite.
One could teach engineering, without ever having had to design or build something.

One could teach programming, without ever having written a program.

There are many thing one could teach, without ever having had the practical knowledge of what they teach. We see this every day in the public schools. What makes one an outstanding teacher, besides the drive to teach, are those teachers that have actually done what they teach.

That was my point, and I believe the point of that part of the story.
 
I think that Brad Fallon and Phil Carson were much more believable characters than Henry Bowman.


In many ways this country would be FAR better off with a LOT more Henry Bowman types.....Well educated, informed, loyal to his friends, and willing to take a stand when push comes to shove. (Not to mention the local gun shop would become a lot more fun to hang around.)

Now I have read and really enjoyed EFAD, and have told the author so. And I have read Molon Labe! and other books like Patriots, Surviving The Coming Collapse. These are all GREAT books, and I have re-read all of them at least once. But IMHO, UC is just in a class by itself....kinda like Henry going to the bowling pin shoot with an MG. ;) Those that can't (or won't) get by the sex are just missing out big time. BTW, for years I recommended the book to this one fellow. He just would not read it because he heard that it had all that nasty stuff in it. FINALLY I got him to read it, and he LOVED it. He told me that he just could not believe that he never read it before now, and thanked me over and over for finally getting him to do it. Again, John....you-DaMan.
 
I am get really tired of

the whining about the icky cootie sex stuff or whatever is your silly little issue.

The man wrote his first book and whether or not you like/love/hate it, the book has done more for liberty and gun rights than you whiners ever will.

UC opened my eyes and those of many others, sorry it offended your dainty sensibilities or wasn't up to the quality of another authors 20th book etc. etc.

CT
 
Remeber, Cuchulainn informed us all, in no uncertain terms, that armed rebellion in any form would never be succesful
It wouldn't in be successful in the USA in 2005, that's for sure ... and into the long foreseeable future.

But you guys keep fantasizing. It amounts to little more than the Dungeons and Dragons games I played 25 years ago. The only difference is that I didn't actually believe those fantasies and I outgrew them after about 8th grade.
 
At the time of the Founders there was a large enough percentage of the population who felt that it was better to die a free man than to live under tyranny. If enough Soviet subjects had met the KGB agents at the door with a gun, eventually they'd have had a very hard time recruiting KGB agents. If this situation becomes bad enough for the tyrannical power elite, the entire tyrannical machine could have been brought down. That is the idea. Not that modern day Americans would ever assemble with their rifles in the streets and march on Washington. They'd be mowed down. Privately owned arms still can prevent tyranny, though. It just requires enough people who prefer an honorable death to being made subjects of a police state. That's the $64,000 question, though.
 
At the time of the Founders there was a large enough percentage of the population who felt that it was better to die a free man than to live under tyranny. If enough Soviet subjects had met the KGB agents at the door with a gun, eventually they'd have had a very hard time recruiting KGB agents.... Not that modern day Americans would ever assemble with their rifles in the streets and march on Washington. They'd be mowed down. Privately owned arms still can prevent tyranny, though. It just requires enough people who prefer an honorable death to being made subjects of a police state. That's the $64,000 question, though.
And the other $64K question, IMO, is that the feds don't know just many of us would opt for that honorable death.

BTW, loved UC. The sex scenes developed the characters.
 
the whining about the icky cootie sex stuff or whatever is your silly little issue.

Now that sounds like real whining because I do not believe in the same things as you.

I am less sheltered than you may think. I have 6 years in the Marines so far, most of that spent overseas. Just like Dorgunr, I know of things that would get me banned for posting them, although I never did them. Not choosing to participate in things that I believe to be wrong is not the same as being sheltered. It is called taking a stand, something that people say they respect here.

Now onto why I thought the book could do without some of the scenes:

The gang rape scene I viewed as nessacary, it is integral to the development of Henry Bowmen. The same as the rape scene for the stripper. I also did not have a problem with Mr. Ross making the characters gay or bi. That was who they were. But did he really have to turn their relationships into a hardcore porn on paper piece? No. It could have been done with more taste, but conveying the same meaning.

I think that Mr. Ross's blatant use of sex just to show sex was a cave in to mainstream media. He tried to make his book more like everyone elses in an attempt to garner more attention from people other than those interested in it's main subject. I seriously think that he may have had more success with just sticking to the plot. Not completley leaving out the sex, but not going into extreme depth either. Everyone knows about sex, we do not need a step by step primer.
 
Now that sounds like real whining because I do not believe in the same things as you.

I am less sheltered than you may think. I have 6 years in the Marines so far, most of that spent overseas. Just like Dorgunr, I know of things that would get me banned for posting them, although I never did them. Not choosing to participate in things that I believe to be wrong is not the same as being sheltered. It is called taking a stand, something that people say they respect here.

Now onto why I thought the book could do without some of the scenes:

The gang rape scene I viewed as nessacary, it is integral to the development of Henry Bowmen. The same as the rape scene for the stripper. I also did not have a problem with Mr. Ross making the characters gay or bi. That was who they were. But did he really have to turn their relationships into a hardcore porn on paper piece? No. It could have been done with more taste, but conveying the same meaning.

I think that Mr. Ross's blatant use of sex just to show sex was a cave in to mainstream media. He tried to make his book more like everyone elses in an attempt to garner more attention from people other than those interested in it's main subject. I seriously think that he may have had more success with just sticking to the plot. Not completley leaving out the sex, but not going into extreme depth either. Everyone knows about sex, we do not need a step by step primer.
Well said. I agree absolutely.
 
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