Unintended Consequences

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I think that Mr. Ross's blatant use of sex just to show sex was a cave in to mainstream media. He tried to make his book more like everyone elses in an attempt to garner more attention from people other than those interested in it's main subject.
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I'll bet John got a big laugh out of that one! :uhoh:
 
Only in my mind. :D I chose my screen name in honor of the character (not as a poser) and to give others some insight into my attitude on the Second Amendment.
 
So many people here both surprise and disappoint me.

Most (if not everyone) who dislike UC seem like they can't see the forest for the trees.

What makes UC great is the overall message about the relentless persecution of gun owners, how we have done nothing to deserve it and have done nothing to combat it.

However, according to some of the complaints here, if it wasn't written by Shakespeare himself, its crap. :rolleyes:

Whatever...

Thanks again Mr. Ross and I can't wait for the sequel!!!
 
So many people here both surprise and disappoint me.

Most (if not everyone) who dislike UC seem like they can't see the forest for the trees.

What makes UC great is the overall message about the relentless persecution of gun owners, how we have done nothing to deserve it and have done nothing to combat it.

However, according to some of the complaints here, if it wasn't written by Shakespeare himself, its crap.

Whatever...

Thanks again Mr. Ross and I can't wait for the sequel!!!
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Not crap. In fact everything you said is true, but it's just a shame, IMO, it could not have been written for a wider audience. Some people just will not continue reading a book that contains porn. All the rest was great. I would have continued reading, even with the porn, if he had kept the main character an honorable man.
 
Hawkeye

People, even heroes, are flawed and "honor" is subjective. For example, the rules I live by are simple: Don't lie, don't steal, and never kick a dog that ain't bigger than you.
Yours might include don't drink, don't smoke, watch/read porn, etc....
How was Bowman dishonorable?
Biker
 
The Real Hawkeye said:
Not crap. In fact everything you said is true, but it's just a shame, IMO, it could not have been written for a wider audience. Some people just will not continue reading a book that contains porn. All the rest was great. I would have continued reading, even with the porn, if he had kept the main character an honorable man.
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Porn, lol. What wasn't honorable about Henry Bowman?
 
What wasn't honorable about Henry Bowman?
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Well, it's been a few years since I read it, but wasn't he, about half way through the book, starting to go on serial killing sprees. Not only that, but even though the people he killed could arguably thought to deserve it, I think I recall that he wasn't just killing them, but was doing some pretty gruesome stuff to his victims.
 
from the book:

[BLOCKQUOTE]
August 2

...

"They're getting grim. San Antonio, Texas. Somebody set fire to an ATF agent's house at 2:00 this morning. Obvious arson job. Accelerants all over the front of the house, especially the front door. When the firemen got there, they find the whole family in their pajamas, in the back yard. The agent, his wife, and three kids. All dead. Each one shot at least three times, and all of them once behind the right ear."

...

"Yeah." The agent looked away from Alex for an instant, then turned back to face him. "Guys from the San Antone office questioned four sets of neighbors."

"And?"

"And nobody knows nothin' about nothin'. One old guy with a walker came to the door, told the San Antonio SAC he wasn't about to talk to him, and to get a warrant if he wanted to come inside. The wife's behind the old guy, and she's sitting in a wheelchair, so the SAC asks her for a statement. Did she hear anything, see anything out the window? She says, 'You want a statement? Okay, Mister FBI man. People who play with fire sometimes get burned.' Then she laughs and shuts the door in his face." The agent took a deep breath. "Sir, cooperation was low before that tape got aired, but now it's nonexistent."
[/BLOCKQUOTE]
 
I call it being a Freedom Fighter.
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Since so many of you really liked the book, maybe I will have to pick up another copy and take another look at it. Been a long time since I first read it. Possible my memory of it is somehow distorted.
 
Striker3...

But did he really have to turn their relationships into a hardcore porn on paper piece?
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Hardcore porn? Are you kidding? The descriptions would have cleared prime time TV - or at least no worse than a PG-13 rating.
 
TRH, all ya gotta do to figure out the book is look at this "P.S. For a really relevant fictional parallel of what's happening in America regarding our transformation into a police state..." in your own sig line.

That's basically what the first half of the book is about. The second half of the book is one guy's notion of what folks might do if they get seriously fed up.

:), Art
 
Art, I actually sympathize greatly with the point of the book. My problem was that I thought I recalled being turned off by the type of actions taken by the main character. But again, that was like ten years ago that I read it, and I might have to take another look at it. As I recall, I liked the first half very much. I thought the actions taken against the agents with the .22 auto were entirely appropriate, as was the action against the helicopter. I am just not a fan of cold blooded killing, however. In the heat of action is something else entirely.
 
Hawkeye

Bowman does not go on serial killing sprees. After the initial reaction to the attack on his home and the homes of his friends, he targets specific individuals who are justly (IMNSHO) deserving of death. Their deaths are quick and relatively merciful.

The killing sprees are described as happening by others who are jumping on the bandwagon, so to speak.

Henry Bowman remains quite honorable right up to the end. Some may see him as a tad bloodthirsty, but taken in context, I didnt see it as that.

The "sex scenes" are entirely germane to the story. Yes, there are some references and inferrences which could have been left out,("Yeah, but what are we going to do tonight?") but leaving them IN develops the characters and makes them somewhat more real.

The history lessons alone are worth the read. For example, I didnt know about the Bonus Army until i read the book. I must also admit, that part made me put the book down until i confirmed it really did happen.

Is it Shakespeare? Not even close, but give John a break - its his first book.
 
shooting people in self defense is not a serial killing spree. I suggest you read it again. I love the writing, by the way.
 
I loved it.

The sex was no problem for me, but then I once worked in a porn store so it is hard to shock me.

Though the idea that someone found Rosie O'Donnell attractive enough to grapple with caused me to get the vapors.

In the next one I want tons more gun info!
 
I'll say it again. The author has some SERIOUS sexual issues. To bad it wrecks the book to the point I wouldn't give it to a gun-nuetral person to win over to our side.

Portions of it are very good. Get an editor. Get rid of the sick stuff. Re-release it at 1/4 the length and then you will have a tool that could do us some good.

Right now, it is just a poorly done, niche book for the gun-obsessed.
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I don't remember how I first found out about it, maybe on rec.guns back in about '98 or so, but I read the book long before I found THR.

I recall having the same "kinda icky" feelings about the inclusion of some of the sex scenes and background in the book. NOT, mind you, because I have any lack of affinity for kinky sex. I just thought that the scenes got a little pushy, and seemed kind of gratuitous.

I am inclined to agree, to some extent, with the above critique. I think John wrote a very well-done novel, and I imagine that the research alone must have been a gargantuan feat. I grooved on the intermingling of guns and aviation -- two things I myself enjoy with great enthusiasm. I did, however, feel uncomfortable with the depictions of violent sexual abuse.

Above all else, I feel that the novel serves as a sort of ... fantasy... for those of us who are extremely disenchanted with the police statism present in modern life, and who feel that our society is, as a whole, relatively powerless to do anything but live amongst it, and flounder around in it. (Many times people have described it as "the awkward stage," I believe.) It helps us vent. We get to picture the corrupt government officials being dispatched with all the venom and hatred that we justifiably feel for them in real life. I think it's no secret that many of those characters were stand-ins for real-life politicians, yes? GOOD.

I remember a scene in the novel where Henry takes some friends flying, and the girl has an orgasm because of the Gs that they pull. I thought that was silly, and I felt at the time that such passages are just an adolescent indulgence on the part of a new author who has yet to master subtlety. (Apologies, Mr. Ross, because I really do have a whole lot of respect for you and your novel.)

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the novel is "poorly done" or that JR has "serious sexual issues" -- although when I read it, I could have sworn that some of that stuff had to be some personal stuff leaking through -- but I do agree that until and unless some of that stuff gets edited a bit, the novel doesn't really serve much purpose to anyone who is not already an anti-government gun-nut. :D


Blue skies,
-Jeffrey
 
Above all else, I feel that the novel serves as a sort of ... fantasy... for those of us who are extremely disenchanted with the police statism present in modern life, and who feel that our society is, as a whole, relatively powerless to do anything but live amongst it, and flounder around in it. (Many times people have described it as "the awkward stage," I believe.) It helps us vent. We get to picture the corrupt government officials being dispatched with all the venom and hatred that we justifiably feel for them in real life. I think it's no secret that many of those characters were stand-ins for real-life politicians, yes? GOOD.

I remember a scene in the novel where Henry takes some friends flying, and the girl has an orgasm because of the Gs that they pull. I thought that was silly, and I felt at the time that such passages are just an adolescent indulgence on the part of a new author who has yet to master subtlety. (Apologies, Mr. Ross, because I really do have a whole lot of respect for you and your novel.)

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the novel is "poorly done" or that JR has "serious sexual issues" -- although when I read it, I could have sworn that some of that stuff had to be some personal stuff leaking through -- but I do agree that until and unless some of that stuff gets edited a bit, the novel doesn't really serve much purpose to anyone who is not already an anti-government gun-nut.
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that's what I was going to say
 
:) peacefuljeffrey said, "I remember a scene in the novel where Henry takes some friends flying, and the girl has an orgasm because of the Gs that they pull. I thought that was silly..."

Uh, I've rented pasture space for horses, for a fair number of younger gals. I've been around when they got back from riding, and couldn't help but notice the condition of their clothes. I've also "pulled some Gs", although just in a Cessna 172. Same-same.

It ain't silly. Hey, learn to fly!

:D, Art
 
Indeed, Art. I ride a 1949 HD Shovel/Pan. 1949 panhead bottom end, 1972 shovelhead top. She tends to vibrate a bit. Quite a bit if I keep her in the high RPMs. Women that ride with me tend to like this, and I like that they like it...Heh heh.... ;)
Biker
 
There's no dirty talk here CentralTexas - just adult conversation about factual realities of life.

I dont mean to sound condescending, but if people discussing reality bothers you, um...well..never mind, there's no way to say it that wont come out wrong.

Simply put - there's no dirty talk going on.
 
I keep getting emails and phone calls saying "I've read in the discussion groups about all the kinky sex in your book. Where can I get a copy of this edition? It's missing from my version..."

MadMan, the passage you quote bothers MANY people, including Massad Ayoob, who said it ruined the book, IIRC.

I thought I made it clear (but apparently didn't) that this particular action (and others) was COPYCAT behavior, escalated by persons unknown after the video was made public. If the plotline is that others are drawn into the fight, it would be unrealistic to think that NO ONE in the entire country would go beyond what we here might deem "acceptable" tyranny-resisting behavior.

And FWIW, DETOUR will likely have something to offend everyone...

JR

Beyond hot pepper juice, I don'r recall having Henry torture anyone.
 
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