Union Switch and Signal

[WalkerTexasRanger]

Came across a good condition US&S 1911A1 today at the fun show. He had it priced at $2500.. Seemed a bit high, but what do you guys think? This is the the forst US&S I have ever seen.

I also came across a Remington Rand that had a 1008XX serial number, but looked like it was not an original sn. He said there were some Rem Rands that had been numbered out of sequence and thinks this is one. I would agree with him, under magnification it looked like the same pattern under the sn, so not like it had been changed and restamped. It had inspector marks all over the outside as well. Not really any finish, but no rust and very slight pitting, asking price $1500. That as well seemed steep...

Input will be appreciated (1911Turner). Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

WTR, Someone told me their son was stationed in Iraq and he witnessed the opening of a case of unissued GI 1911A1s that had been in storage for over 50 years. One of them was an unissued US&S. This fellow thought this an interesting story because the military has been claiming for a long time that all they had were old rebuilds of 1911A1s to issue to troops.

 

[1911Tuner]

US & S

ARRRRRRGHHHHHHH!!!!

Why can't I find another nice Union Switch? I've lived a good life. I've been
good to my mother! Kind to animals...Helped little old ladies load their groceries. It ain't fair I tell ya...It just ain't fair!

If that Union Switch is original and in decent shape, 25 hundred is a very
good price...but have it verified by somebody who knows what to look for.
Hell, I'd give 500 bucks for a nice frame and slide! (Assumin' that I could
dig up 500 bucks)

dsk is our resident historian, and probably has it all comitted to memory.
He or Fuff can point ya in the right direction.

Now, ya'll are gonna hafta excuse me while I go sit on the pity potty.

Tuner...Cryin' the Blues in Old Caroline...

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

Lucky soldier that pulls an unissued US&S out of the box!!

After a little research on the internet tonight, I would say that the Rem Rand I saw probably had a mismatched (Colt) frame. It would explain the sn. Also, after looking at the US&Ss posted everywhere, IIRC the one I saw today had the words Union Switch $ Signal written on it. None of the pics have this spelled out, they all have the U.S. & S and the U with the SS inside of it. COuld this be a fake, or were any of this varient produced?

Thanks!!!!

 

[1911Tuner]

Union Switch

I've seen several that had the logo that you described, and just to the rear of the legend is printed U. S. & S. Co. with Swissvale, Pa. printed under it.
I've also seen two that had the legend farther to the rear with Union Switch & Signal Co. printed under it. Maybe fakes...but they looked to be
authentic. I don't have a serial number range, so you'd have to check with
somebody who does...likely dsk. There were some 55,000 of them made
by Union Switch beginning I think, in 1943.

dsk, clarify...I'm curious on this one.

Tuner

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

Thanks Turner!! Thought I should ask before dropping $2500..

 

[Old Fuff]

Tuner …. I all is going to take you to the cleaners one of these days. Most of those US&S pistols are US&S slides on someone else’s frame. U.S.G.I. frames are not marked with the manufacturer’s name. So if you change the slide the pistol loses it’s identity unless you know two things (at least).

Different contractors, Including Colt, Remington-Rand, Ithaca, and US&S, were assigned serial number blocks so there wouldn’t be duplicate numbers. It failed a few times, but not often. Union Switch & Signal guns should fall into a block running from 1,041,405 to 1,096,404 and they made around 55,000 guns and a lot of spare parts (including slides).

Government inspectors at each of the respective factories inspected the guns. In the case of US&S all of the pistols were inspected by Lt. Col. Robert C. Downie. His mark consisted of the letters “R.C.D. within a circle.

So when you come on one of those ultra-desirable Union Switch & Signal guns don’t get excited until you check the serial number and inspector’s mark. If they pan out forget everything else and send me an e-mail. I’ll come pick it up and save you the trouble.

Oh, and do look out for fakes. It’s not too hard to renumber a frame and stamp on a phony inspector’s mark. Generally though, you can tell that’s something’s wrong.

 

[1911Tuner]

Frame ID

Old Fuff said:

Most of those US&S pistols are US&S slides on someone else’s frame. U.S.G.I. frames are not marked with the manufacturer’s name. So if you change the slide the pistol ...

Yup...Understood. Mine is genuine, and came from a trusted source.
I just don't have a serial number range on hand to answer Walker's question. I used to have a lot of that stuff in my head, but it's startin' to fade.

What drew my attention to the issue was the description of the
Union Switch ID...spelled out. I've seen two...three if you count the one
that was rusted up...that had the legend slightly to the rear and above
where I've seen all the others, and under the big U with the SS inside,
Union Switch & Signal Co. was spelled out. All the other slides were marked:

(Logo) U. S. & S. Co. with Swissvale Pa directly under that.

If the three were fakes, they were done by the same person, because
they were seen over a span of about 15 years and 150 miles, and they
were located in the same place on all three slides. I thought they were
just variations.

Do you know of any that were marked that way...and is it possible that
they could have been spare slides that may have been marked differently
than the ones on the production line? This has my curiosity kinda piqued.

What say you?