Rescued Remington Rand 1911
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I have to wonder if those slides were used on guns that were used with ammunition other than USGI spec ammo.
A hardened steel bushing was added to later USGI pistols to correct some issues with breechface peening.
I have also seen postwar commercial slides that have cracked at the ejection port but every one of them had had alterations to "improve reliability". i.e. lowered and flaired, etc.
Personally, I don't recommend using an original USGI gun as a carry piece simply because the guns are becoming too valuable as historical artifacts of a bygone era now.
25 years ago the pistols were pretty common and fairly inexpensive and many were converted into carry and comp. blasters for better or worse.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
No. Most of the ones that I saw came directly from government surplus sales...and that was in the days when GI spec hardball was pretty much all there was. The ammunition was so cheap that nobody reloaded it other than bullseye competitors.
The two that broke in my possession were fired almost exclusively with 200 and 230 grain cast bullets loaded with 6 grains of Unique for 870 and 830 fps velocities respectively.
None of the ones that I saw had been modified in any way...and the crack almost always appears on the left side of the port in the top corner anyway...where they're not altered. Only two cracked in the right side. One was a slide off a 1918 Black Army Colt that broke adjacent to the first lug wall, and the other one was a cast Thompson Auto Ordnance that broke clean through in the middle of the port wall.
They were just soft. Full heat treating started by Colt in mid 1946, and a good many of those slides probably went to the tail end of government contracts. Those didn't have the hardened recoil insert that was installed in the earlier ones. I've run into a couple of'em.
The contractors probably supplied a dozen slides and barrels for every complete pistol delivered...because they knew that the slides took a pounding, and would be replaced several times over the course of the frame's service life. Everybody worries about the frame, but it's the slide that catches all the hell.
If you have a frame that looks fairly worn, with a slide and barrel assembly that looks good by comparison, it's a good bet that it's not the slide and barrel that came with the pistol originally.
wrdwrght
Member
One of my few regrets in life is that I didn't smuggle my Remington Rand home in 1969. But at least I got home.
1911Tuner again and with those keywords "Government surplus sales" I have to wonder if what you got were rejected out of specification material.
I know of one batch of new in the wrap contractor slides made in the late 78 early 79 era that were rejected and scrapped as unservicable for failing to meet hardness requirements.
The issued slides that went out as "surplus" were culls from rebuilt pistols that failed gage and wear inspections.
Those "Surplus" slides were already well used and at the end of their service life when they were pulled and replaced with new.
There were not very many remaining 1911A1s that had the original slides still on the frames when I left in 1986 tthough I do remember seeing at least 20-25 still new in the kraftboard boxes 1911A1 pistols sitting in a Special Forces arms room around that time.
I think they were using those guns to build semi custom blasters for the dark and mysterious crowd...
I know of one batch of new in the wrap contractor slides made in the late 78 early 79 era that were rejected and scrapped as unservicable for failing to meet hardness requirements.
The issued slides that went out as "surplus" were culls from rebuilt pistols that failed gage and wear inspections.
Those "Surplus" slides were already well used and at the end of their service life when they were pulled and replaced with new.
There were not very many remaining 1911A1s that had the original slides still on the frames when I left in 1986 tthough I do remember seeing at least 20-25 still new in the kraftboard boxes 1911A1 pistols sitting in a Special Forces arms room around that time.
I think they were using those guns to build semi custom blasters for the dark and mysterious crowd...
tark
Member
Onmilo, I agree with you 100 percent as to the durability of the average military 1911A1. I was 45B20 in Germany in 1970, Small Arms Repairman. About all we ever did to the 1911s was send them off to be re-parkerized. The Army 1911s were spot heat treated, but in the proper areas. They were very durable.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Keywords?
I guess you're not old enough to remember a time when the pistols were stacked up like cordwood on gun show vendors' tables...some priced as low as 25 bucks for a fairly decent example and 35 for a nice one.
And on the next table, there were all the NOS surplus parts needed to rebuild the guns...dirt cheap. Barrels for 2 dollars. Sears and disconnects and hammers for a quarter, etc.
A time when the DCM was selling the guns via mail order. My father ordered two. He got a nice Colt and a decent US&S for 35 dollars...total...including shipping. I still have the Union Switch and the Colt frame. I busted the slide on the Colt, and got lucky enough to find a NOS Colt GI slide to replace it with.
The old ones are dead soft. They won't hold up for tens of thousands of rounds.
Do a Rockwell test on an old slide. They ran about 24-25 C Scale...as opposed to heat treated slides at around 32. Maybe that'll convince you.
To take this in an entirely different direction. It was 45 years ago, gawd I'm getting old, that a Remington Rand 1911A1 turned out to be the thing that made the difference in my being here or not.
Seeing this old war horse really tugged at my heart strings. I handed that 1911 off to another worthy individual just as it was handed off to me. I've no idea what happened to it, but I hope it's sitting in someone's safe enjoying a well earned retirement.
That's what should happen to this one. Keep it cleaned and oiled, and someday it might make the difference for someone who needs it.
Seeing this old war horse really tugged at my heart strings. I handed that 1911 off to another worthy individual just as it was handed off to me. I've no idea what happened to it, but I hope it's sitting in someone's safe enjoying a well earned retirement.
That's what should happen to this one. Keep it cleaned and oiled, and someday it might make the difference for someone who needs it.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
By early 1944, it was pretty well recognized that Remington Rand was producing a better pistol than Colt, and they were doing it about 5 bucks per copy cheaper.
WardenWolf
member
Nice old 1911. Not bad condition. I've seen much worse.
What branch and where? Never know, it might have been the one I used the following year. In which case, I'm glad you didn't bring it home. Stranger things have happened.
243winxb
Member
What a 70 year old remembers of the good old days.
I had the Ithaca , Remington Rand, & Colt 1911s. Surplus were $15. The Ithaca cost me $45. The Colt was traded in on a Series 70 Gold Gup around 1976. Dont remember what i allowed on the trade, but the Gold Cup was $276 new back then. GI surplus ball ammo was $3 for 50 rounds. We shot it up just for the brass. I still have a lot of that brass, but using new Starline now. Heres a GI WRA69 that died of old age.
[/URL][/IMG] Heres a Remington Rand selling at aucton for $792 now. Not in great shape. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=479191835
I had the Ithaca , Remington Rand, & Colt 1911s. Surplus were $15. The Ithaca cost me $45. The Colt was traded in on a Series 70 Gold Gup around 1976. Dont remember what i allowed on the trade, but the Gold Cup was $276 new back then. GI surplus ball ammo was $3 for 50 rounds. We shot it up just for the brass. I still have a lot of that brass, but using new Starline now. Heres a GI WRA69 that died of old age.
243winxb
Member
From above link.
Sold at auction for $792.
Sold at auction for $792.
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