Unionized Parcel Smashers

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beerslurpy

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Ever try to ship a gun through the mail or UPS? I recommend you do it sometime for a taste of the most frustrating anti-gun beaureacratic mindset you will ever encounter outside of an airport. I am currently attempting to ship a shotgun to Tromix to have it worked on. Tony does excellent work at great prices, so I decided to ship it to him in a gun case inside a box.

First, some legal background. It is completely legal to ship a gun through the mail to an FFL. In addition, it is completely in accordance with UPS and USPS internal regulations regarding shipment of firearms.

With one exception (an older guy at the post office who was very cool) every single clerk I dealt with at UPS or USPS got a look of mortal horror in their eyes when I said the word "gun" or "firearm." Mind you, I was not dressed like a homeless person or someone out of Deliverance. I am a clean shaven white guy always wearing either a polo shirt or a shirt and tie. I speak perfect english, not creole, spanglish or ghetto slang. I wasnt even rude at first.

I have gotten the following hilarious "laws" and "rules" explained to me by various mailing outlets:
-it is illegal to ship a firearm unless I have an FFL (nevermind that even FFLs cant ship to non-FFLs)
-it is illegal to ship a gun to an FFL that isnt a major manufacturer
-it is illegal to ship a gun period (this was a chart topping favorite)
-it is illegal to ship a gun except priority mail (this only applies to handguns in UPS)
 
It may cost more and I might be lucky, but I found Fed Ex to work out fine and the staff was courteous. You must go to a hub Fed Ex staffed location, and not a Kinko's Fed ex type of satellite location.

One thing they require it be overnight. Probably something about having it sit around the warehouse...
 
A few years ago (maybe on a different site) someone who was frustrated by a delivery service hit upon the idea of mailing a poorly packaged jar of deer urine to a fictitious address from a fictitous return address.

Don't do it ! It's not nice.
 
odysseus said:
It may cost more and I might be lucky, but I found Fed Ex to work out fine and the staff was courteous. You must go to a hub Fed Ex staffed location, and not a Kinko's Fed ex type of satellite location.
Click to expand...

I had a problem with a Kinko's a few weeks back and ended up driving to a hub. Sent FedEx a nasty letter and got an apology.

The web site does not indicate the requirement to use a hub. Kinko's was supposed to have accepted the package.

('Course, this could have changed by now....)

UPS does require using their hub.

One thing they require it be overnight. Probably something about having it sit around the warehouse...
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that too from FedEx. I think UPS just wanted to discourage the business. Both will let FFL's use lower-priced modes.

Resist the temptation to not declare a firearm. If there's a loss, you won't collect....

(Also, the Post Office won't take a handgun....)

Regards,
 
I have shipped many firearms fed-ex and not had a problem. They just have to be going to the manufacturer or an ffl, obviously. I believe you can even ship a handgun, though I think they may make you ship a handgun overnight or 2 day or something like that--its different than a long gun. UPS is very unfriendly when it comes to guns. They don't like to have them around because their employees are too likely to steal them...
 
I've generally had good luck with FedEx...but the last time was very interesting. I went to Fedex- got a box- filled out the paperwork and informed them that I needed to send a pistol to an FFL via overnight.
The clerk called her boss to ask for direction. She was told that the gun could not be shipped in a box with FedEx printed on it.:confused:
She did say that I could use the boxes that they sell (and pointed to a rack of boxes). So I walk over and get a box off the shelf while the clerk opens the box the pistol is in. I look at the box and it is EXACTLY like the other box. She calls her boss and tell him/her that. Neither one knows what to do, so they say that I'll have to use the 'purchased' one :confused: :fire:
I tell her this is a scam...but I don't have time to mess around so OK I'' buy it. She completes the paperwork and say's "OK that'll be $70" (or therebouts).
I say, "you've gotta be kidding me!!! This was about $35 the last time I shipped one." She say's well you can go 2 day for $48 (or therebouts).
I tell her that I was told that all handguns have to go Overnight. She looks at the computer and say's, "no it's OK". Then she tell me she won't charge me for the box either. So I payed her for the 2 day - didn't pay for the box (that was the same damned box I started with) and left. Unfortunately, about half way back to work I realized that Thanksgiving was in two days.
:(. Turns out that the dealer on the receiving end was closed for a few days after Thanksgiving, so the gun wasn't actually delivered for nearly a week. All that wonderful service and for only 50 bucks....Jeeez...why is this so difficult?
 
>>>As long as it is a long gun and not a handgun<<<

Wrong. You may ship any gun (even a machinegun for gunsmithing) to an FFL. I think you are thinking handgun interstate commerce between individuals. An FFL may not sell you a handgun if you live out of state, however ANYone can SEND a gun to an FFL handgun or long gun or whatever.
 
Logistics said:
>>>As long as it is a long gun and not a handgun<<<

Wrong. You may ship any gun (even a machinegun for gunsmithing) to an FFL. I think you are thinking handgun interstate commerce between individuals. An FFL may not sell you a handgun if you live out of state, however ANYone can SEND a gun to an FFL handgun or long gun or whatever.
Click to expand...

Postal regs prohibit a non-FFL holder from using the USPS for mailing handguns. Otherwise, you are correct.
 
Logistics,

I was referring to beerslurppy's use of the word "mail" in shipping a gun to a FFL. "Mail" usually refers to the U.S. Postal Service. USPS will not allow a non-FFL to mail a handgun to a FFL. A handgun must be shipped by a private carrier such as UPS or Fed-Ex. Last I heard, DHL will not accept firearms.
 
Car Knocker said:
Logistics,

I was referring to beerslurppy's use of the word "mail" in shipping a gun to a FFL. "Mail" usually refers to the U.S. Postal Service. USPS will not allow a non-FFL to mail a handgun to a FFL. A handgun must be shipped by a private carrier such as UPS or Fed-Ex. Last I heard, DHL will not accept firearms.
Click to expand...

Actually that isnt true. Not by law, not by USPS regs. You can ship long arms to FFLs without having one yourself. Perfectly legal.
 
Maybe you can't from the USPS (US postal service) but I know for a fact you don't have to be an FFL to ship a handgun TO an FFL. Fedex and UPS will accept them anytime from an individual.
 
Could be I did it wrong. Any requirement to declare what is in the box?? I shipped FedEx - next day. But, I did not figure they (anyone) needed to know what was inside.
 
beerslurpy,

Nowhere in my response did I refer to long arms. I said "USPS will not allow a non-FFL to mail a handgun to a FFL. A handgun must be shipped by a private carrier such as UPS or Fed-Ex."
 
beerslurpy said:
I wasnt even rude at first.
Click to expand...

Ten years ago I moved to a small town with no residential mail delivery. We have to go to the P.O. to get our daily mail.

This is how I learned why it's illegal to carry a firearm into the post office. It has nothing to do with past criminal acts involving postal employees.

It's because of their "customer service." :banghead:
 
Logistics,

I never said anyone needed an FFL to ship a firearm to a FFL. I did say that one needed to be a FFL to MAIL a handgun through the Post Office and then only to another FFL. That's according to Federal law that refers to USPS regulations. I believe some states' requirements may differ.
 
Never had a problem shipping a firearm via UPS. They were always quite helpful. The packages always arrived on time as promised and they arrived in good shape. Of course I use a real UPS hub location and not some storefront UPS drop off business. That is not real UPS, that usually is Joe Bazooka and Jane Jovial trying to run a packing materials store and UPS franschize.
 
I never said anyone needed an FFL to ship a firearm to a FFL. I did say that one needed to be a FFL to MAIL a handgun through the Post Office and then only to another FFL. That's according to Federal law that refers to USPS regulations.
Click to expand...
Used to be a regular citizen, no FFL in hand, could mail a pistol or revolver to a manufacturer for repairs and the manufacturer could mail it directly back to the citizen (no FFL in hand). That was a long time ago when I last did that. I guess from what you are saying that has changed drastically. Do you know where on the USPS site I can find the postal regs on this, I would like to bookmark the site for future reference. Thanks.

All the best,
GB
 
Sure.

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:
a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.
c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.
d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.
432.2 PS Form 1508
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.
Exhibit 432.1
Mailability Requirements for Firearms

Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state, territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official duties:
Addressee Affidavit Requirements
a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or organized reserve corps.
b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or territory.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by commanding officer.
c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief postal inspector.
e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by head of agency employing the addressee.
f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or branch of government agency employing the addressee.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e of the opposite column.
Unloaded Handgun
Mailer must be licensed manufacturer or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer or dealer. Addressee is FBI (or it's director) or scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers, or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment. Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS form 1508, Statement by Shipper of firearms, and file with postmaster.
Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to their RCSC for a ruling.
 
beerslurpy,

Wait till UPS and Fed-Ex decide they need to get out of the firearms shipping business. Then our friendly local FFL will have us by the short ones because we will have to go through him. Wonder how much he'll charge then?
 
Larryect said:
Could be I did it wrong. Any requirement to declare what is in the box?? I shipped FedEx - next day. But, I did not figure they (anyone) needed to know what was inside.
Click to expand...
Their web site requires that you declare it. I still wonder what would have happened if I'd not done so at that Kinko's where it was refused.

(UPS' web site also requires notification. BOTH seem to request that you DO NOT identify the package as a firearm, and I suggest that you look at the manufacturer's names - Para Ordnance's service facility in TN suggests using just "P.O." as their name. Not exactly a deep secret, but....)

Regards,
 
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