Unique powder question for 45acp

[actionflies]

I just shot 100rd. of 45acp using 5.1gr. of Unique powder with 230gr. LRN and it was very dirty and smoky. I'm also noticing some unburn powder and was wondering if it was because the load was not crimp enough. Is this right or not?

I have it crimp at .4720 using Lee FCD and 1.260 oal.

 

[ok41]

How do you crimp these bullets? Usually powder residue and/or black film indicate blow by from the bullet leaving the case prior to complete pressure build up. The same problem with me was solved by tightening my crimp. (I taper crimp all of my .45 loads as they headspqace on the case mouth.) As Elmer Keith wrote in his books, you can't have too much crimp as long as the case doesn't become deformed. FYI, My favorite load for this gun is 6 gr Unique behind 200 gr SWC. Good luck.

 

[loadedround]

Actionflies: I also load that bullet with Unique and what OK41 is saying might be true and slightly more "TAPER" crimp may be needed...remember this cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. However what you may be seeing is lube residue. Some lead bullets are worse than others with the type of lubrication used. Get some Laser Cast bullets from Oregon Trail and try them. They are the cleanest shooting cast lead bullets I have ever used and also have no leading. MidwayUSA among others carry them. Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Walkalong]

Unique is not the cleanest powder around. Try some Universal Clays. It is very similar to Unique and much cleaner burning. The first two posters also have very valid points though. W231 is another excellent choice with cast bullets in the .45.

 

[wally]

If you are used to shooting jacketed bullets, any lead bullet will be "smoky" in comparison. I use Unique for nearly all my loads.

The unburned flakes suggests you need more crimp or perhaps a bit more powder.

I load 6.0gr Unique with all my .45 bullets (185gr -230gr cast and jacketed). The 185gr JHP (found again, left over from a bulk buy a long time ago) are really light but function my guns and leave some unburned powder on the bench in front of me, the 200gr and 230gr don't.

I find the "dirt" from Unique while clearly visible is a light "soot" that is easily removed. I basically just wipe it off, use a Q-tip on the ramp and breech face, a drop of oil on each rail, and return it to the safe for next trip. I only take down for cleaning after I have a problem. Usually get over 1000-1500 rounds out of most guns. I like shooting a lot more than cleaning and don't find Unique to be any problem.

--wally.

 

[langenc]

A fellow often shoots next to me at the club. He uses Unique. I sometimes think Im shooting in a RR yard. Black stinky smoke. I also shoot unique on occasion-in the 45.

 

[joneb]

I have better results with Unique using plated or jacketed bullets, and Winchester primers. I think a faster powder like Bullseye would be more appropriate for a lead target load.
With my revolver loads a heavier crimp will help slower powders burn more efficiently.

 

[actionflies]

Thank everyone for their advices. I will increase the charge and crimp in the next batch and also trying out Win 231 and Titegroup powder today. By the way, what do you use to clean the inside of the dies because the lube lead bullets are making it hard to pull the bullet out?

 

[cdrt]

Hoppe's #9 works okay. Just take the die apart and use a patch on a cleaning rod like you would on your pistol. Once the lube is gone, use a clean patch to dry the inside of the die and reassemble.

I would suggest that your crimp is fine at .472 on that round. You can increase the amount of Unique, but I really wouldn't change the crimp. You might try some of the other powders and see if they burn cleaner with light loads. Bullseye is still a good choice and very economical to load. The old std Bullseye pistol load was either a 185 or 200 grain SWC lead bullet with 3.5 grains of Bullseye powder.

 

[pinkymingeo]

Bullseye is pretty sooty, but it's the ticket for short barrels. I shoot .45 in 5" and 2 3/4" revolvers. With the longer barrel no sweat, but I couldn't get any velocity in the short tube using Unique, 231 or Titegroup. Out came the BE, and it gives me 1000fps with 6.3gr under a 185 JHP. Over a hundred years old, and it's still the answer for some applications.

 

[orfeo]

Unique is alot cleaner than it used to be. At least some of theses reports of excessive dirtiness may be attributable to the use of an older batch. Another issue (like another poster said) could be with loading it too light powder-wise. Unique, being not the fastest powder, does tend to fail to burn completely in an excessively low-pressure application (like a light powder load). Unique shines at higher velocities since it is a low(er)-pressure powder. Powder-puff target-loads are much better served by faster powders like 231 which have a much higher, faster pressure spike. Seating the bullet a bit deeper in the case will also raise the pressure, making Unique burn cleaner and better, but the trade-off is that you correspondingly increase the "bullet-jump" distance from the chamber to the bore, which you may or may not want, depending upon what that distance ends up to be (in my .45 I try to maintain a jump distance of about .020 from chambered position to bore-engagement). Increasing the crimp will also raise pressures, and improve the clean burn, but you don't want the crimp to cause the case to dent the bullet. . . you want the tightest crimp that does not dent the bullet. If you have a hammer-style, inertia bullet-puller, it is easy to disassemble your loads to see if they are denting or not, and adjust the crimp accordingly.

 

[Clark]

My Unique can is old and make dirty guns.

But I noticed that Blue Dot is dirty in low pressure straight wall applications, but in .223 it is clean as clean can be.

 

[pinkymingeo]

I crimp some jacketed non-cannellured bullets tightly enough to dent the jacketing slightly. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, and it's necessary to get enough crimp for some slow powders.

 

[Noxx]

I've been loading with Unique and it's pretty sooty. I believe someone here suggested Titegroup for my 9mm, going to try that next.

 

[Blaster3094]

5.1 grains of Unique behind a 230 grain LRN bullet it too light of a load. If you increase your powder charge you should experience better results. I usually load 6 grains under a 230 grain LRN.

Regarding the crimp, I am a believer of Brian Enos's theory. Case wall tension is responsible for holding the bullet in place. The taper crimp die is used only to remove the bell from the case mouth. Nothing more.

 

[orfeo]

+ 1 to Blaster and Brian Enos

+1 to everything Blaster3094 said

I normally run 6.0 grains of Unique behind a Montana Gold 230 gr FMJ at an OAL of 1.234" out of my H&K USP Compact 45 with a 3.8" barrel, at an average of 845 fps, with Winchester cases and primers.

With all the care and developement we put into our craft as reloaders, most of us are trying to obtain the maximum accuracy and repeatability from our ammo. Denting the bullet with the taper crimp is counter-productive to that goal.

 

[Walkalong]

Regarding the crimp, I am a believer of Brian Enos's theory. Case wall tension is responsible for holding the bullet in place. The taper crimp die is used only to remove the bell from the case mouth. Nothing more.

Bingo! At least with auto cartridges. Some revolver cartridges still need a heavy crimp with some powders along with good neck tension, but none will work well with inadequate neck tension and no amount of crimp will fix that.

Welcome to THR Blaster.

 

[ADKWOODSMAN]

For my 45 colt rifle loads I use a roll crimp because of the spring in the 73' tube. For my 45 Schofield loads only a slight taper crimp is used in the revolvers.

 

[GaryL]

I like 6.1gr-6.2gr of Unique for 230gr FMJ

 

[wcwhitey]

Blaster called it, too light of load. As long as you have a "decent" taper crimp you will be ok. Up the load to at least 5.5 grains (up to 6.5) and it will get cleaner and not leave the unburnt granules. I use alot of Unique and I always know when the charge gets too low I will start to see the unburnt powder. Another point, it is cleaner than it used to be but will still leave some soot. Bill

P.S. The 230 Grain FMJ factory equivalent , 830 fps, is 6.6 grains of Unique.