United Methodist Church 2008 Anti-Gun Resolution

[ArmedBear]

Hey, at least the picture is funny.

Other people are calling the church a whore, suggesting that one should urinate on it, etc. And these are pro-church people.

Someone described the Methodist church as...

a drunk, promiscuous party girl.

That makes it sound more fun than it really is.

 

[ArmedBear]

goto hell

Ah BASIC. Good times, good times.

 

[btg3]

Hey, at least the picture is funny.

Other people are calling the church a whore, suggesting that one should urinate on it, etc. And these are pro-church people.

Not funny. This man Jesus died for me. Can you imagine how your post makes me feel?
What folks call the church is a much different matter.

 

[ArmedBear]

You might remember the whole moneychangers thing, then.

The real Jesus wasn't particularly nice to people who did stuff that wasn't so cool in God's name, or so we're told.

Not sure what feels bad about that.

 

[Artigas]

The real Jesus owned that Temple. It was his house. He can kick out whoever he wants. And he did. I'm sure he'd approve of us defending our own homes, if not with whips, then with our firearms, our modern-day swords, and if not from encroaching moneychangers, then from whatever thieves and cutthroats might invade.

 

[btg3]

Im not much into religion, someone explain this whole tithe thing to me.

Tithe literally means 1/10 (a tenth). It is generally accepted as the minimum standard of giving for Christians -- a tenth of your first fruits, your profits, paycheck, etc. Whether you give a tenth before or after-tax can be debated inconclusively, so it is a matter of the heart between you and God. It's also debated whether the tithe applies to the New Testament church and today's believers. I feel that it does.

Tithers generally take the position that God owns everthing. (BTW, this did not change with the New Testament.) We acknowledge his ownership by giving back 10% and managing the other 90% to please the owner as well.

In reality, 80% of the giving comes from only 20% of the members. Most folks think it's "their money for their pleasure" which helps explain why "the love of money is the root of all evil".

If you ever have a chance to compare the contentment of someone who is giving more than 10% to someone who stuggles to return 10% to the owner, it will make an impact on you.

 

[XavierBreath]

STOP.

I'm going to direct everyone posting in this thread to The High Road code of conduct.

In it you will find this:

We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of abortion, religion and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately.

We all agreed to this code of conduct when we registered.

The United Methodist Church drafting a resolution against firearms ownership is relevant. This thread, however, is derailing towards a quick and permanent end.

If the members here desire to discuss the resolution of the United Methodist Church, do so in accordance with our code of conduct.

If the members here wish to have this thread closed and be shown the door, continue to violate the code of conduct.

That is all.

 

[MEH]

Apparently whatever you guys are talking about that was offensive got deleted before I had a chance to see it... Thankfully most of the comments in the thread are very "High Road".

This thread wasn't intended for people to bash Christians. I posted it because I was surprised that the main conference was so anti-gun, I wanted people to know about it, and I also wanted suggestions on how do explain why the PA conference is wrong if the subject comes up again at my church.


Thanks

 

[jakk280rem]

xavierbreath is right, this thread started out good but started a slow list to port. can anyone tell me if there is a web site that lists the relative, or actual, second amendment/rkba stances of popular organized denominations? is there perhaps a gunners guide to religion?

 

[Catherine]

GOOGLE and other search engines are your friends.

LOOK under various religious denominations - they LIST their beliefs and stances.

I did not see the picture or comments. I got here too late to see it and comment on it.

Read your Bible for further instruction if you are inclined to do so.

Best wishes. PLEASE ignore my accidental face symbol. I am typing in bed and hit it wrong! Grin sign.

Catherine

 

[lee n. field]

is there perhaps a gunners guide to religion?

Not that I'm aware of. You might start with the NRA's list of antigun organizations.

 

[btg3]

...a web site that lists the relative, or actual, second amendment/rkba stances of popular organized denominations?

http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=GNG_partners
FWIW, here's the "God not Guns Coalition" affiliated with the BradyBunch...

Previous gun violence prevention activities and campaigns have been supported by the following organizations:

National Campaign Partners

American Ethical Union
American Humanist Association
American Jewish Congress
Congregation of Sisters of St. Agnes Leadership Team
Disciples Justice Action Network
Equal Partners in Faith
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Hadassah The Women’s Zionist Organization Of America
Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs
Mennonite Central Committee, US
National Council of Churches of Christ in US
National Council of Jewish Women
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
The American Jewish Committee
Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations
United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society
United Methodist Church Board of Church and Society


State Campaign Partners

California
Sisters of Saint Joseph of Orange
Marin Friends Meeting
Anaheim 1st Presbyterian Church
Congregation Or Ami
Council of Churches of Santa Clara County
Little White Chapel Christian Church
Progressive Christians Uniting
Saint Simon & Jude Catholic Church
Temple Ahavat Shalom
The Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles
Saint Simon & Jude Catholic Church

Delaware
Wilmington Church of the Brethren

Illinois
Episcopal Peace Fellowship Chicago Consumer Coalition

Indiana
Islamic Society of North America

Maryland
A.M.E. Zion Church
Allow God Ministries
Little Falls Monthly Meeting of Religious Society of Friends
National Capital Presbytery
River Road Unitarian Church
Saint Rita Parish Catholic Church
The First and Franklin Street Presbyterian Church
Northwood Presbyterian Church
River Road Unitarian Church

Michigan
Archdiocese of Detroit
Baptist Council of Pastors of Detroit
Saint Leo Catholic Church
Second Ebenezer Church

Minnesota
Arrow Head Interfaith Council
Peace United Church of Christ

New Hampshire
New Hampshire Council of Churches

New York
Hadassah Brooklyn Region
Presbyterian Peace Fellowship
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Women of Reform Judiasm The Federation of Temple Sisterhood
Fellowship of Reconciliation

North Carolina
Durham Congregations in Action
Religious Coalition for a Nonviolent Durham
North Carolina Council of Churches

Ohio
Inter-religious Partners in Action of Greater Cleveland
Diocesan Social Action Office of Cleveland
Ohio Council of Churches
Toledo Metropolitan Ministries

Pennsylvania
Church of the United in Pennsylvania
Church Women United in Pennsylvania

Virginia
Grace Presbyterian Church
Metropolitan Christian Council of Philadelphia
Virginia Council of Churches
Catholic Diocese of Richmond

Washington DC
Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception
New York Avenue Presbyterian Church
Unity of Washington DC
Saint James Episcopal Church
First Trinity Lutheran Church
The Bishop and Council of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, DC
InterFaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington
Masjid Muhammad of Washington
Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation
Nativity Church of Our Lord Jesus
The Metropolitan Community Church of Washington, DC
Westminster Presbyterian Church
Church of the Brethran
Church Women United
Justice and Witness Ministries United Church of Christ
Nativity Church of Our Lord Jesus
Union For Reform Judaism
Westminster Presbyterian Church

 

[Barr]

On a side related note, I see at least six different anti-gun organizations that are Jewish affiliated and the NRA even includes the Presbyterians (USA). This is per the NRA-ILA Fact Sheet referenced from an above post.

Earlier, I posted that I thought it was wrong to judge an entire denomination or group of people based on a handful of leaders "speaking for them" without considering the individuals of the group. Here is a perfect example:

If I were doing research and was uninformed about history and just went by this one NRA source that lists six different anti-gun groups that are Jewish affiliated, I would conclude that all people of Jewish faith are anti-gun.

I do not believe that for a second. So please no scorching responses to the above falsehood.

It is a historical fact that the Jewish people have been oppressed for many, many years. Most recently by the Nazis and several other Palestinian nations. The region over in the Middle East is and has been a constant hotbed of fighting for millenia. Due to this, the modern Israeli state established in 1948 has needed to develop a very strong military. In fact, they require military service of their young people for a certain number of years. (2-4 I think not sure) I am not certain of their stance on individual gun ownership (probably pro-gun), but I would not be surprised to find that it echoes the national defense stance.

 

[.cheese.]

I don't go to legislators to talk about G-d, so why should the church be involved in making laws?

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

Also, I feel the religious basis given doesn't even come close to justifying a one-handgun-a-month bill. You can try to give an anti argument a religious spin, but those with fully functioning noggins can see right through it. It's an anti argument by antis, for antis. Religion is just being used as an excuse.

My temple does this kind of stuff all the time (it seems to be pretty common in reform and conservative Judaism at this point [of which I am reform]- interestingly the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox don't seem to be involved). I'm pretty sure I'm the only pro-2A member of my temple.

All of this stuff is the same to me.

NEJM trying to pass off anti-gun arguments as medically relevant is the same kind of thing that is going on here.

 

[woad_yurt]

OMG!

 

[Deanimator]

Thank god I'm an agnostic...

 

[Piney Woods]

Whenever a religious group starts meddling in politics, they should immediately lose whatever tax-exempt status they have. Separation of church and state goes both ways.

 

[btg3]

Separation of church and state keeps popping up like prairie dogs begging for target practice. You wanna go there?

 

[variablebinary]

Sounds like political speech. Tax exempt status should be yanked