Unorthodox defensive shooting in Texas

[bill larry]

http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_185074228.html

Fort Worth Robbery Suspect Shot, But Not By Police
(CBS 11 News) FORT WORTH Gunshots rang out at an Albertsons grocery store in Fort Worth after a robbery attempt on Tuesday night. A suspect was shot, but not by the police.

The incident took place at about 11:30 p.m. at the store located on Sycamore School Road.

According to the Fort Worth Police Department, three armed men walked into the store and began robbing customers and employees. One of the victims called her husband who was waiting just outside of the store. The husband then walked into the store with a concealed handgun and confronted one of the suspects.

"We certainly don't encourage that," said Lt. J.D. McCarthy with the Fort Worth Police Department. "We ask that, most of the time, contact the police department and let patrol officers handle those situations."

The suspect, identified as Raysun Johnson, was shot in the backside as he was leaving the scene. He is undergoing surgery at JPS Hospital in Fort Worth, and is expected to be arrested when he is released.

The other two suspects fled the scene and have not yet been found.

Police are calling the shooting an act of self-defense, and are not charging the husband.

This a little different, eh? ***ring*** Hello? Could you please come in here and shoot these guys?

 

[vis-à-vis]

lol. Perhaps that sting in the backside will help him realize the errors of his ways.

 

[strambo]

Sounds good to me. With a family member inside, heck yeah, I'd go in. She can call the police next while I'm getting to work. Glad this turned out OK for the good people.

 

[Wes Janson]

Well, you *could* call the police who would have a response time of, at minimum, several minutes..or you could call someone armed and trustworthy who's a maximum of 30 seconds away. If I were in fear for my life, I don't think that's a question I'd spend very long contemplating.

 

[scubie02]

he's lucky he's in TX, I'm betting in NY he'd get more jail time than the guy in the hospital...

 

[bill larry]

/\/\/\

Yup. I must admit, my eyebrows were slightly raised when I read this the first time. I have a feeling that in about 1/3 of the US, this guy would be labeled a vigilante and would be sitting in the can for quite some time.

I gotta say it, but I do love Texas. Sometimes, common sense can and does prevail.

 

[M2 Carbine]

One of the victims called her husband who was waiting just outside of the store. The husband then walked into the store with a concealed handgun and confronted one of the suspects.

Would anyone just wait outside?
Not me.


Just as a little side note,
A few weeks ago the Dallas Chief of Police said a call from a citizen taking fire on the road is not a priority call.
This came about when a man called 911 that he was being shot at. The police never responded.

No I would never count on the police to protect me or mine. (and I used to be a city policeman).

 

[M2 Carbine]

And in TX you can use deadly force to protect a stranger.
The same deadly force rules apply as if the attack was directed at you.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

And in TX you can use deadly force to protect a stranger.
The same deadly force rules apply as if the attack was directed at you.

The same is true in most states.

The problem is in those states that don't even allow you to defend yourself ...

 

[akodo]

I think he acted good here, however, I do believe normally shooting someone when they are fleeing is unnecessary even criminal. I can definately see an armed person entering a dangerous situation because a loved one is there.

the one reason I agree with when they bring a defensive shooting under scrutiny is 'does this guy's story hold up, or is he trying to pass a murder off as self defense?'

Say a guy knows his wife is cheating with another man. He invites that other maon over for beers, shoots him, then puts a knife in the dead man's hand and calls it self defense. That's why self defense cases are looked at carefully, and that is another reason why shooting someone in the back can get you in a world of hurt. Sometimes I agree with the shooter....a guy who keeps on coming back, if he gets away now he will jsut try for vengange later on I can understand that kind of shooting someone as they are fleeing, but otherwise not. And it is an area where our laws aren't really good on, they cannot seem to handle that fine degree of differnce if the threat is not imminent

 

[El Tejon]

M2, maybe he was having a smoke? Or, she just went in for a gallon of milk and he wanted to listen to the radio?

 

[M2 Carbine]

Today, 02:49 PM #11
M2, maybe he was having a smoke? Or, she just went in for a gallon of milk and he wanted to listen to the radio?

What I meant is, would anyone wait outside (for the police) AFTER their wife called.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Does it seem like these citizen shootings are happening more often or are they just getting reported more often? I swear that this is the third one in a week. Are people getting fed up with the "aww it isn't their fault, don't hurt the poor babies" attitude, or is it just wishfull thinking on my part. I know I don't feel bad for em whether they are shot fleeing or not. Live by the sword die by the sword and all that.

 

[robert garner]

What I meant is, would anyone wait outside (for the police) AFTER their wife called.
I can only imagine many would,legality be d----d!, not going to my Mrs aid
would be unthinkable,immoral,and unforgiveable!
Think rather Redneck Bonsai "Get 'er Done!"
robert

 

[Titan6]

There more defensive uses of firearms and they are being reported on more often because there are more legally armed people.

 

[TCUGLOCKER]

Yes for living in Fort Worth, we call that defending your family around here.
I'll definitely buy that guy a beer if I see him around.

 

[M2 Carbine]

pacodelahoya
Does it seem like these citizen shootings are happening more often or are they just getting reported more often? I swear that this is the third one in a week. Are people getting fed up with the "aww it isn't their fault, don't hurt the poor babies" attitude, or is it just wishfull thinking on my part. I know I don't feel bad for em whether they are shot fleeing or not. Live by the sword die by the sword and all that.
__________________

A lot incidents of the legal defensive use of a gun doesn't get reported.
I personally know of a couple (non shooting) incidents that should have at least got a sentence or two on the local news but not a word.

But I guess that's the nature of TV news.

 

[saltydog452]

M2,

In a previous post you mentioned where Dls PD Chief Kunkel said that being fired upon wasn't sufficient reason for a priority response from the Dallas PD.

I don't doubt your word, but if you have a source, I'd like to see it.

Thanks,

salty.

 

[Art Eatman]

akodo, Texas law is quite specific: It doesn't matter if the Bad Guy is coming or going, if the CHL person reasonably and prudently believes the BG is an ongoing danger to the community.

A robber with a gun, coming or going, is indeed such a threat.

Art

 

[Alphazulu6]

I gotta say it, but I do love Texas. Sometimes, common sense can and does prevail.

 

[gunsmith]

we

We certainly don't encourage that," said Lt. J.D. McCarthy with the Fort Worth Police Department. "We ask that, most of the time, contact the police department and let it become a hostage situation, so we can call out SWAT.

 

[def4pos8]

I'm glad that everything worked out well for the good folks in this one. The only discrepancy I note is that the good guy's deadly force wasn't so deadly. If we use these things at all, that perp should have been, as Boortz says, "Dead Right There!"

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I don't get it. Some of y'all act like you have never driven to a store with the spouse and let the spouse pop in and pick up something you needed while you waited outside.

I also don't understand why this would be considered unorthodox. There was a call for help by a loved one to an armed spouse who went in to protect the one calling for help. She used the phone because he was outside the building an in the car, but probably was more than close enough had they been out in the parking lot to hear a yelled cry for help.

I do believe normally shooting someone when they are fleeing is unnecessary even criminal. I can definately see an armed person entering a dangerous situation because a loved one is there.

What a crock. Just because the suspects were leaving doesn't mean they weren't still a threat or threatening folks on the way out. The suspect shot in the backside may have been pointing a weapon at folks on his way out as a matter of intimidation to help keep the path out clear. He may have been proceeding out with his gun pointing behind him.

Besides, how does anyone at the time know if the suspects are actually leaving versus changing position in the store. They may have been headed toward the exit, but that does not mean that they were necessarily going to exit directly. The suspects were still inside the store and hence in proximity as a threat.

If the lawbreaker is stupid enough to not cover his own six, that is, making a tactical blunder by turning his back on those just threatened, that is just too bad for him. The CHL holder waited for a good opportunity when the shot could be made and took the shot. Turning your back on your victims and intended victims after committing a crime such as armed robbery is really pretty stupid.

 

[Rexster]

In Texas, private citizens have almost as much power as peace officers in using force, and when it comes to violent felonies occurring in one's presence, virtually the same power as peace officers. Garner-vs-Tennessee, the court case which resulted in most police agencies restricting the use of deadly force against fleeing felons, did not indicate it was wrong to use deadly force against an ARMED fleeing felon, still presenting a danger to the public. Moreover, an armed private citizen has the power to use force to prevent the escape of certain criminals. It is certainly possible a grand jury will review this incident, but if they are like grand juries in my part of Texas, it is unlikely they will indict this armed citizen.

 

[LAK]

Art,

That's a new one on me. Can you handily cite that one?

I am aware that you can shoot to protect a third party - specific party or parties - but not that it includes the community at large.

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