UPDATE: My nephew and the PA police...

[effengee]

A while back I posted about my nephew in Lewistown, PA getting into trouble for defending himself on his own property with a firearm. Glad to say that one of the other guys involved got in trouble with the law before the court hearing, but Jay still has to do probation for "Unlawful discharge of a firearm" The good news is that he'll be getting his guns back as soon as his probation is over, the bad news is that he still lives in an area where defending yourself on your own property can and will get your guns confiscated and you arrested and put on probation.:banghead:

 

[ol' scratch]

Did he lose his CCW? Was he charged with a crime? Will this go on his record? I just read your original post.

 

[One-Time]

if he discharged a gun in SD, hows that illegal? Or did he fire a warning shot?

 

[Deanimator]

Or did he fire a warning shot?

If so, it's just one MORE reason why warning shots are a BAD idea.

Two to COM and one to the head are more than enough warning. If that's not necessary, you shouldn't be shooting AT ALL.

 

[avs11054]

A while back I posted about my nephew in Lewistown, PA getting into trouble for defending himself on his own property with a firearm. Glad to say that one of the other guys involved got in trouble with the law before the court hearing, but Jay still has to do probation for "Unlawful discharge of a firearm" The good news is that he'll be getting his guns back as soon as his probation is over, the bad news is that he still lives in an area where defending yourself on your own property can and will get your guns confiscated and you arrested and put on probation.:banghead:

Come on man...I just read your original post. Your nephew is hardly getting in trouble for "defending [himself] on [his] own property..." Does he know where his bullet landed? Does he know if it hit anybody or damaged any property?

In Arizona he would've been charged with a felony and he would not get his guns back at all.

 

[effengee]

update

No charges other than "unlawful discharge of firearm"
CCW suspended until end of probation, firearms will be returned at that time.

As far as I can tell reading PA uniform code, he did nothing wrong other than fire his gun at night and in a direction where he couldn't be SURE that he didn't hit something... He did actually fire towards an uninhabited by humans hillside accross the street from his property, but I will agree that was unsafe.

We can all say he coulda done this or that till the cows come home, but at least he isn't facing homicide charges...
It's still scary that the police came over to his without a warrant and asked his wife while he was at the police station being questioned, to surrender any of his other guns, which consisted of only another handgun.

I'm going to give him a call this evening and ask him some more about it...
I'll keep you posted.

 

[jiminhobesound]

I lived in State College, run by Penn State professors, and I would be surprised if the same LEO charges would have been filed. Howevr, I left there twenty years ago and things change.

 

[Old Fuff]

In Arizona he would've been charged with a felony and he would not get his guns back at all.

I doubt it, especially in one of the rural counties, unless of course an issue of injury or damage was involved. That said, warning shots are generally not a good idea under most circumstances. This also presumes that the shooter can convince the investigators that he/she had a good reason to fire in the first place.

 

[sonick808]

AZ would have been the BEST place to be for him, no way would AZ convict him

 

[AK103K]

Lewistown may have the "no discharge of firearms within the corporate limits" thing going on. A lot of the more populated areas resort to this as a way to ban hunting, as they have no jurisdiction over it here in PA. It sort of a "catch all" thing too.

From what you posted earlier, it sounds like the gun went off without intent, which isnt a good thing either, and hes lucky no one was hurt. Still, even if he meant to do it, I'll bet he rethinks it now.

As far as the cops coming back for his guns, that sounds like its on his wife. She should have told them to get a warrant and called his lawyer.

Sounds like he's going to luck out, even though its been an ordeal.

 

[One-Time]

so what was he shooting at? An attacking hill?? Im confused

 

[avs11054]

I doubt it, especially in one of the rural counties, unless of course an issue of injury or damage was involved. That said, warning shots are generally not a good idea under most circumstances. This also presumes that the shooter can convince the investigators that he/she had a good reason to fire in the first place.

ARS 13-3107.

Firing into the air, as was stated in the OP on this topic a few months back, is a violation of Shannon's law is. It is a class 6 felony.

 

[Old Fuff]

ARS 13-3107.

Firing into the air, as was stated in the OP on this topic a few months back, is a violation of Shannon's law is. It is a class 6 felony.

13-3107. Unlawful discharge of firearms; exceptions; classification; definitions

A. A person who with criminal negligence discharges a firearm within or into the limits of any municipality is guilty of a class 6 felony.

I made a point of specifying rural counties, and also noted: "no issue of injury or damage was involved."

In Arizona we have two large population areas (Phoenix and Tucson), and the rest is mostly empty desert with an occasional residence. As a practical matter, law enforcement response to a call for help is not likely to happen quickly.

Nowhere is the saying, "when seconds count - the police are only minutes away," apply, but here minutes can under the worst of circumstances be measured in terms of an hour or more.

Add to that obvious security issues caused by our position relative to the Mexican border.

So, after given an appropriate verbal warning, someone continues to approach an isolated ranch or farm house, and a round - pointed in an unquestionably safe direction - is fired to discourage those that otherwise won't take "NO!" for an answer, It is unlikely the shooter will find themselves arrested.

If for no other reason, our sheriff's have to stand for re-election.

 

[avs11054]

You must not have read the original thread. It stated the nephew fired the gun into the air accidentally. As a few others pointed out, a person would have a hard time claiming he fired the gun into the air accidentally in self defense.

And almost every town, even small ones, have city limits. The population in Lewiston, PA, is almost 9000 people according to the US Census. As stated, he's lucky he didn't do this in AZ. It would have been a felony.

 

[effengee]

Jay said he didn't really intend on the gun going off and lucky for him the round went towards an unpopulated area.
As he pulled it out and brandished it, his finger was inside the guard and he fired the gun. It's an old police special with a hair trigger.

Thankfully everything worked out OK.

 

[Six]

Seems like everything worked out the way it should.

Being in a confrontation does not give you permission to do whatever you want with your gun, nor absolution from unintended results.

 

[Old Fuff]

THREAD DRIFT ALERT!!!

But I'm going to do this anyway...

Jay said he didn't really intend on the gun going off and lucky for him the round went towards an unpopulated area.

As he pulled it out and brandished it, his finger was inside the guard and he fired the gun. It's an old police special with a hair trigger.

Old .38 Special revolvers do not have hair triggers (?) unless the hammer is cocked. In the double-action mode the trigger pull on most is between 10 to 13 pounds unless someone has messed with the springs.

So the above incident is another opportunity to point out that it's a good idea to modify one used exclusively for self defense to double-action only. Of course one shouldn't have their trigger finger inside the guard while drawing a gun, brandishing it, pointing it, (whatever), but in a stressful situation it sometimes happens.

Shortly before switching to pistols, many federal agencies and major police departments came to the same conclusion. They had their present revolvers changed and specified heavier trigger pulls when they ordered pistols. Somewhere in this they're is a lesson...

 

[Guillermo]

went back to the original post to get the scoop.

once again the fellow in question got hosed (although not as bad as it could have been) because he spoke to the police.

what he should have done is said "I acted in self defense...please call my attorney" and then shut the hell up.


also, the fellow's wife should not have cooperated with the police either.

just because they knock does not mean you have to answer
just because they demand something does not mean that you have to comply

let this sad case be a lesson for everyone...DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

 

[Six]

Also, don't break the law.

 

[mgmorden]

Also, don't break the law.

Indeed. My brother tended to get into a lot of trouble as a teenager (he's mellowed in adulthood thankfully), but my advice to him was always very simple: "The easiest way to not get caught doing something is to simply not do it in the first place.".

 

[Guillermo]

don't break the law

sounds like he made a mistake in a high stress situation

that happens to the best of us

 

[Six]

You could say the same for the other people at the scene.

 

[J-Bar]

just because they knock does not mean you have to answer
just because they demand something does not mean that you have to comply



Wasn't there just a recent supreme court decision to the contrary?? Or did I misunderstand....

 

[Guillermo]

Wasn't there just a recent supreme court decision to the contrary??

don't know to which you refer

perhaps the case to which you refer is the Indiana Supreme Court ruling that citizens cannot resist illegal police entry? (just guessing)

The bottom line is that police can legally lie but unless chasing a fleeing felon (or other specific immediate public safety issues) they require warrants to search homes and seize property.

 

[thump_rrr]

he did nothing wrong other than fire his gun at night and in a direction where he couldn't be SURE that he didn't hit something...

Jay said he didn't really intend on the gun going off and lucky for him the round went towards an unpopulated area.
As he pulled it out and brandished it, his finger was inside the guard and he fired the gun. It's an old police special with a hair trigger.

How can you as a gun owner say he did nothing wrong?
He is responsible for every bullet.

He broke rules #3 and #4 of Jeff Cooper's 4 rules.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET