doublebarrel
Member
1911Tuner, I'm impressed. You're hilarious! Hope you don't mind I post your work to the Ruger forum(with proper credits given, of course...)
Update on the .50 GI 1911...
- Thread starter Sean Smith
- Start date
- Status
1911Tuner, I'm impressed. You're hilarious! Hope you don't mind I post your work to the Ruger forum(with proper credits given, of course...)
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
The Tuner Diaries
doublebarrel said:
1911Tuner, I'm impressed.
Thank yewwww...
------------------------------
Hope you don't mind I post your work to the Ruger forum(with proper credits given, of course...)
Not at all, lad. As a future public servant, I need all the exposure that
I can get for proper name recognition. When I'm president, you may expect a cabinet appointment with all perks.
--------------------------------
You're hilarious!
On to New Hampshire! I understand the good folks there appreciate
havin' a man in office who isn't so stuffy...
doublebarrel said:
1911Tuner, I'm impressed.
Thank yewwww...
------------------------------
Hope you don't mind I post your work to the Ruger forum(with proper credits given, of course...)
Not at all, lad. As a future public servant, I need all the exposure that
I can get for proper name recognition. When I'm president, you may expect a cabinet appointment with all perks.
--------------------------------
You're hilarious!
On to New Hampshire! I understand the good folks there appreciate
havin' a man in office who isn't so stuffy...
Andrew Wyatt
Member
Tuner, can i be secretary of Recoil?
Hand_Rifle_Guy
Member
It's about freakin' time!
This is the thread Tamara didn't feel like digging up. Or one of 'em, any how. This is just my version, but there's been a lot of words tossed around about this idea.
I'm just impressed it finally exists in concrete form at last. However, I am unimpressed with the cost. I should think I could arrange for a Bar-sto-converted Glock 20 and a couple-hunnerd lathe-turned cases for that amount of money, and actually have some leftover. This was Alaska Roy's plan over on TFL, but I never heard how that project finished up. I oughta send him an e-mail and find out.
This is the thread Tamara didn't feel like digging up. Or one of 'em, any how. This is just my version, but there's been a lot of words tossed around about this idea.
I'm just impressed it finally exists in concrete form at last. However, I am unimpressed with the cost. I should think I could arrange for a Bar-sto-converted Glock 20 and a couple-hunnerd lathe-turned cases for that amount of money, and actually have some leftover. This was Alaska Roy's plan over on TFL, but I never heard how that project finished up. I oughta send him an e-mail and find out.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Quote from Nightcrawler...
-----------
All objects accelerate towards the ground at 32 meters per second, squared.
-----------
That is pretty much right. There are the additional aspects of density, wind resistence/aerodynamics of object, density of air in question, etc. With that said, a smaller cross section and lighter 9 mm round traveling at 1100 (muzzle) fps has less of a drop at 100 yards (drop rate) than a heavier .45 acp with greater cross section that travels at 850 fps (muzzle). Depending on the brand and particular powder characteristics influencing the velocity, published data on the .45 acp at 100 yards can drop up to 30" for a 230 gr. projectle at about 825 fps (muzzle). I believe that was hollowpoint, but you get the idea.
So, a 50 cal projectile, heavier weight and greater cross section and flying through the air at a slower 700-725 fps means that at 100 yards, the round will drop more at 100 yards than a .45 acp which drops more than a 9 mm. Big, slow, and heavy does not scream accuracy although it may be fine for combat accuracy.
So the .50GI does not have greater reasonable reach. It definitely is not going to pose any greater threat to body armor (such as some 9 mm penetrating where .45 acp can't, for example) being wider and slower. The gun costs several times as much as a stock .45 acp and 50% more than my Wilson CQB. Ammo is 2.5 times the cost of what I pay for defensive ammo and practice ammo will probably be closer 4-5 times as much as I don't reload. The ammo at that velocity is not yet proven or remotely substantiated as a reasonable defensive performer.
So no, I am not impressed either. When the cost of the gun gets down to about $1000, history exists to support a clear 50K plus life of the platform, ammo is $10 a box for 50 rounds of ball ammo and no more than $20 for defensive ammo, and somebody has some real data on performance characteristics that indicate the gun is a definitive better stopper than .45 acp, I will be placing my order. I will also be ordering 10 magazines, 5000 of ball ammo and 1000 of defensive ammo. I'll splurge extra for the night sights and a melt job.
Simple standards, but reasonable.
-----------
All objects accelerate towards the ground at 32 meters per second, squared.
-----------
That is pretty much right. There are the additional aspects of density, wind resistence/aerodynamics of object, density of air in question, etc. With that said, a smaller cross section and lighter 9 mm round traveling at 1100 (muzzle) fps has less of a drop at 100 yards (drop rate) than a heavier .45 acp with greater cross section that travels at 850 fps (muzzle). Depending on the brand and particular powder characteristics influencing the velocity, published data on the .45 acp at 100 yards can drop up to 30" for a 230 gr. projectle at about 825 fps (muzzle). I believe that was hollowpoint, but you get the idea.
So, a 50 cal projectile, heavier weight and greater cross section and flying through the air at a slower 700-725 fps means that at 100 yards, the round will drop more at 100 yards than a .45 acp which drops more than a 9 mm. Big, slow, and heavy does not scream accuracy although it may be fine for combat accuracy.
So the .50GI does not have greater reasonable reach. It definitely is not going to pose any greater threat to body armor (such as some 9 mm penetrating where .45 acp can't, for example) being wider and slower. The gun costs several times as much as a stock .45 acp and 50% more than my Wilson CQB. Ammo is 2.5 times the cost of what I pay for defensive ammo and practice ammo will probably be closer 4-5 times as much as I don't reload. The ammo at that velocity is not yet proven or remotely substantiated as a reasonable defensive performer.
So no, I am not impressed either. When the cost of the gun gets down to about $1000, history exists to support a clear 50K plus life of the platform, ammo is $10 a box for 50 rounds of ball ammo and no more than $20 for defensive ammo, and somebody has some real data on performance characteristics that indicate the gun is a definitive better stopper than .45 acp, I will be placing my order. I will also be ordering 10 magazines, 5000 of ball ammo and 1000 of defensive ammo. I'll splurge extra for the night sights and a melt job.
Simple standards, but reasonable.
voilsb
Member
Unless you're on Earth, then it's 9.8 m/s^2, or 32 ft/s^2
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Neck it?
HD asked:
now i'm a wondering ; what can we neck it down to ?
480?
45?
44?
40?
375?
366?
357?...this could be fun ...
johhny , wadda you think ?
Why not go all the way down to .25 caliber? The little 50-grain JRN
should hit about 4,000 fps. We could call it the 25/50 SuperBlitz and
make a fortune. P.T. Barnum practically guarantees it...
HD asked:
now i'm a wondering ; what can we neck it down to ?
480?
45?
44?
40?
375?
366?
357?...this could be fun ...
johhny , wadda you think ?
Why not go all the way down to .25 caliber? The little 50-grain JRN
should hit about 4,000 fps. We could call it the 25/50 SuperBlitz and
make a fortune. P.T. Barnum practically guarantees it...
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
The Superblitz would be a fun gun, but I bet the muzzle flash and report would be nothing less than spectacular with Dragon's Breath (shotgun shell brand product) fire starting abilities!
Well Nightcrawler's data 'sounded' right (to a man with math deafness), but I didn't check the units of measure.
Well Nightcrawler's data 'sounded' right (to a man with math deafness), but I didn't check the units of measure.
Tamara
Senior Member
Double Naught Spy
Bullet drop frequently has nothing to do with accuracy, nor does high velocity contribute to it. Note the lack of target trophies won by 220 Swifts...
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't own a Desert Eagle or anything chambered in 10mm or .41 Magnum, right?
I'm still getting a giggle out of the "It'll never replace the beloved .45 ACP in the 1911!" crew. I must've missed where it was supposed to. It's a frickin' small production specialty gun fer heaven's sake, not a challenge to your personal stash of .45 ACP ammo. People don't get this worked up about LAR Grizzlies in .50 AE, do they?
Bullet drop frequently has nothing to do with accuracy, nor does high velocity contribute to it. Note the lack of target trophies won by 220 Swifts...
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't own a Desert Eagle or anything chambered in 10mm or .41 Magnum, right?
I'm still getting a giggle out of the "It'll never replace the beloved .45 ACP in the 1911!" crew. I must've missed where it was supposed to. It's a frickin' small production specialty gun fer heaven's sake, not a challenge to your personal stash of .45 ACP ammo. People don't get this worked up about LAR Grizzlies in .50 AE, do they?
Warren
Member
Bumping on the chance someone has, by now, some actual experience with the gun.
NineseveN
member
Warren said:
Dammit, I didn't check the dates on this, I thought this was really a new gun!
Booo...was fun to read though.
Warren
Member
Sounds like a great gun, but I would have to have a lot in my "gun budget" to justify buying it.
I'm hoping that there is enough interest in the cartridge to prompt other gun makers to build a platform for it. A much less expensive platform.
I'm hoping that there is enough interest in the cartridge to prompt other gun makers to build a platform for it. A much less expensive platform.
Brass Balls
Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2003
- Messages
- 419
I keep hearing good things about this pistol. I was recently reading that the inside of it is finished impeccably well. Then I keep thinking about the 300 grain JHP traveling at 860 fps. Damn, that's a lot of power for a handgun that by all accounts is quite controllable to shoot for anyone accustomed to a 1911 in .45 ACP.
ProPistols
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 6
I know I'm new here, but I'm curious. Other than me, who on this site acutally ownes one?????
Ned Christiansen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 7
Here's the first part of a thread I started on it elsewhere some time ago, the full thread can be found at
http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=20370
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I have one of the new Guncrafter Industries .50-cal 1911's here. I don't think I get to keep it very long, but I wanted to share some highlights with you guys as I check it out. I will try to resist the urge to go into excessive detail as we will be seeing it in some of the magazines ere long, but-- on the other hand the magazines are often light in the technical areas, so, well, let's see where this goes.
In the interest of full disclosure, I am pretty good chums with Alex Zimmermann, one of the two main cogs at GI. Other than that I have nothing to gain, no financial interest in the company, no free anything. To get this gun for a little while I'm paying shipping both ways and I bought the ammo. Yes, I would like to see GI sell a boatload of these, that's about it. I hold Alex's technical skills in the highest regard, and I was confident from the moment he let me in on the big secret that it would be well done, and that if I were to review it for folks I would not have to fudge anything or pretend not to notice any shortcomings. Friend or not, I'm not going to jeopardize my own credibility by foisting a candy-coated, rose-colored picture of the GI .50 on anyone. Now that I have it, although I'm just getting started with it, I can see already that there will be no dilemma for me in reviewing it and telling you about it. And, yes, again in the interest of being up-front about it all, if it had come to me an obvious POS, I would have quietly sent it back with my best wishes and written nothing.
The biggest question I've heard so far, is, Why? What's it for? There are so many options and calibers to be had in the 1911 already, what possible need is there for a fifty? But honestly now, if there were no other pistols and calibers beyond, say, .22 and .357, would life be so bad? Not really, but some enthusuasts want more, and ain't nothing wrong with that. Some, not all. I've said from the moment Alex told me about this, in fact these may have been my first words to him, "This won't be for everybody". I won't try to argue for its existence with any ballistic mumbo-jumbo which I am totally unqualified to put forth. Likewise, the wrong answer would be, "If you have to ask you just don't understand", but on the other hand, to use the tried-and-true high-performance vehicle analogy, who needs a bike that'll do 150+ MPH, and once they have one, why will they often as not trade it like a hot potato for one that'll do 160+?. Or perhaps even trade it for one that won't quite make 145 but handles better or stops faster or is a brighter red, or just has a badder-looking, fatter rear tire? My personal reason for being enthused about it is that it's new and different, that's always good, and it just happens to also have been done well. And as someone told me the other day, the old saying, "Why do I carry a .45? 'Cause they don't make a .46," might have just taken on new meaning! Whether it's really filling a gap, whether there's truly a need for it, is way secondary for me. As a 1911 nerd, it's good enough to just want it because
http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=20370
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I have one of the new Guncrafter Industries .50-cal 1911's here. I don't think I get to keep it very long, but I wanted to share some highlights with you guys as I check it out. I will try to resist the urge to go into excessive detail as we will be seeing it in some of the magazines ere long, but-- on the other hand the magazines are often light in the technical areas, so, well, let's see where this goes.
In the interest of full disclosure, I am pretty good chums with Alex Zimmermann, one of the two main cogs at GI. Other than that I have nothing to gain, no financial interest in the company, no free anything. To get this gun for a little while I'm paying shipping both ways and I bought the ammo. Yes, I would like to see GI sell a boatload of these, that's about it. I hold Alex's technical skills in the highest regard, and I was confident from the moment he let me in on the big secret that it would be well done, and that if I were to review it for folks I would not have to fudge anything or pretend not to notice any shortcomings. Friend or not, I'm not going to jeopardize my own credibility by foisting a candy-coated, rose-colored picture of the GI .50 on anyone. Now that I have it, although I'm just getting started with it, I can see already that there will be no dilemma for me in reviewing it and telling you about it. And, yes, again in the interest of being up-front about it all, if it had come to me an obvious POS, I would have quietly sent it back with my best wishes and written nothing.
The biggest question I've heard so far, is, Why? What's it for? There are so many options and calibers to be had in the 1911 already, what possible need is there for a fifty? But honestly now, if there were no other pistols and calibers beyond, say, .22 and .357, would life be so bad? Not really, but some enthusuasts want more, and ain't nothing wrong with that. Some, not all. I've said from the moment Alex told me about this, in fact these may have been my first words to him, "This won't be for everybody". I won't try to argue for its existence with any ballistic mumbo-jumbo which I am totally unqualified to put forth. Likewise, the wrong answer would be, "If you have to ask you just don't understand", but on the other hand, to use the tried-and-true high-performance vehicle analogy, who needs a bike that'll do 150+ MPH, and once they have one, why will they often as not trade it like a hot potato for one that'll do 160+?. Or perhaps even trade it for one that won't quite make 145 but handles better or stops faster or is a brighter red, or just has a badder-looking, fatter rear tire? My personal reason for being enthused about it is that it's new and different, that's always good, and it just happens to also have been done well. And as someone told me the other day, the old saying, "Why do I carry a .45? 'Cause they don't make a .46," might have just taken on new meaning! Whether it's really filling a gap, whether there's truly a need for it, is way secondary for me. As a 1911 nerd, it's good enough to just want it because
Ned Christiansen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 7
....looks like the system won't let me post the lengthy first segment-- well, anyway, the link is there for you who are interested.
Warren
Member
Ned, thanks for popping in and sharing your look-see at the .50 GI.
The photos from your pistolsmith thread did not load. If you could post those here that would be great.
The photos from your pistolsmith thread did not load. If you could post those here that would be great.
Warren
Member
They are expensive because they are all hand built by the just two guys right?
So if the guns get made in the usual fashion with I could see the prices coming down unless of course demand keeps the prices up.
Then again if it is popular other makers wil want to design a platform for the caliber which would hopefully bring gun and ammo costs down.
So if the guns get made in the usual fashion with I could see the prices coming down unless of course demand keeps the prices up.
Then again if it is popular other makers wil want to design a platform for the caliber which would hopefully bring gun and ammo costs down.
Kamicosmos
Member
The resurrection of this thread and it's subject matter force me to ask:
What Caliber For Zombie Threads?
What Caliber For Zombie Threads?
ProPistols
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 6
Thank You Ned for taking the time to answer the question. I have found it quite disturbing after reading the many posts on the subject that some can and will criticize this product without ever touching the pistol. Well, I touch the product, shoot the product and know the men who built it. Yes, it is everything AZ and VT said it is. And yes, it is a BIG caliber gun that shoots softly and handles beautifully. For me, it's like the truck I drive. I could have left my 7.3 powerstroke stock, but now that it's been souped up, it gives me more of what I liked about it in the first place. Yes, I'm a huge 1911 fan. I've owned or sold every top 1911 on the market. Guncrafter Industries makes a beautiful product that is second to none. It is a truly functional and aesthetically beautiful product. The caliber, well that just speaks for itself. While the art of conversation is a beautiful thing, I feel you must have some knowledge and experience with the product before you may judge it. And for those who question the price, well as my dad told me as a boy and something I still believe to this day, "life is too short for cheap booze, cheap women and cheap guns."
Thanks!
Thanks!
One thing I've learned about the internet, on any thread, about any new gun that costs more than a Highpoint, somebody is going to complain about the price.
It is a speciality custom gun people. Just because it don't float your boat doesn't mean that it sucks. I could go through life armed with a Ruger P series and a Mossberg 500 and be prepared for just about anything. But that would be BORING. If somebody has the cash to buy a beautiful custom gun, good for them. It isn't their fault they make more money than the rest of us. Let them enjoy it. Jeez.
It is a speciality custom gun people. Just because it don't float your boat doesn't mean that it sucks. I could go through life armed with a Ruger P series and a Mossberg 500 and be prepared for just about anything. But that would be BORING.
If somebody has the cash to buy a beautiful custom gun, good for them. It isn't their fault they make more money than the rest of us. Let them enjoy it. Jeez. ajax
Member
I personally think it kicks ass. Unfortunetly for me it's not a practical firearm ,but it sure is COOL.
Ned Christiansen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 7
Well, this thread started quite some time ago, I think when they first came out. Opinions and speculation are perfectly natural. I'm just fortunate enough to be able to say "I knew that guy before he got big..... ideas!".
Like with the 6.8, .17HMR, .357 SIG-- new stuff spurrs new debate.
I'll see what I can do about the pics.
Like with the 6.8, .17HMR, .357 SIG-- new stuff spurrs new debate.
I'll see what I can do about the pics.
Warren
Member
Hey ProPistols...
How about a more detailed range report on your .50?
How about a more detailed range report on your .50?
- Status