APB you are beating a dead horse, intra means in the same state, inter means between 2 different states, I think you just like to debate, if it were legal for interstate transportation thru the U.S. mail, to non FFL buyers and sellers to engage in sending guns to people who were un licensed, (FFL), licensed, it would make no sense, other than sending the weapon to the factory, to fix a defective or broken part. Otherwise what would stop a murderer or a drug dealer from ordering a gun thru the mail from a licensed firearms dealer, or having a friend send a gun to a felon, that's why they both have to have FFL's. The whole idea here is weather you care to follow the law, or set it aside thinking that the LEO's are going to stand there and debate it with you. It just happens that the 2 guys who own a Pak Mail store nearby, basiclly spelled it out because they are both enthusiasts, "parts" is what they told me is what folks write on the box, not evem "machine parts", because you going to have a problem if the weapon is insured and get's swiped, and you have to produce a receipt to get paid from the company that you shipped with. And overnight air is the only way to go as it limits the transit time of the goods and renders it less likelly to get stolen. But this is only for transit when both parties live in the same state, also a scan of your license inside the box, in case it does get lost, it will be delivered to the person whose Lic, is inside, so it should be the same as the addressee. This will be the last time I respond to this question, and I don't accept orders from anyone other than my wife. If you want to get the names of the ups, fedx, or mamma lukes overnight delivery service, go right ahead, they are going to tell you "no guns", that means "no guns" shipped even intrastate unless they are either going to the manufacturer, for repair, to a smith, who will usually work out of a gun store in order to use thier FFL if he doesn't have one, "two FFL licensees". I'd be very impressed if you can produce a letter from any one of them saying that they will knowinglly ship a weapon to a non FFL, either way, but you already know that. The old days are gone forever, we live in a society thay has made things for the average guy, much harder than they have to be, and I am sure that non law abiding element of society are not the least bit concerned with this. But some poor guy is going to get his ass locked up because he saw someone on the internet tell him it was ok to send a handgun through the mail. If you are sending a firearm to smith and wesson because the hammer fell off, that's ok. But if you are selling a gun to john smith who only has a ccw, that's not ok. I don't have the time or inclanation to keep at this, since I did it to help someone avoid the pitfalls, but I don't get paid to argue motions. That's why you see a lot more FTF offers in the buy and sell area, otherwise it just gets cost prohibitive to buy or sell anymore.
UPS and FedEx, no longer allow intrastate shipping
- Thread starter gym
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Sylvan-Forge
Member
Intrastate
I've been going through this same problem of UPS not being able to read and understand their own written policy. I've given up on them and I'm now working on finding a legislator who will sponser a bill to amend USC Title 18 §1715, to allow intrastate mailing of handguns between nonlicensed individuals.
Currently, federal laws say:
Intrastate (within your state);
Shotguns and rifles can be shipped (UPS, FedEx) and mailed (USPS) from a nonlicensed individual to another nonlicensed individual.
Handguns can be shipped (UPS, FedEx) but can't be mailed (USPS) from a nonlicensed individual to another nonlicensed individual.
It is not required to notify the carrier (UPS, FedEx) that you are shipping a firearm. (UPS, FedEx policy says you must).
Reminds me, I need to update my thread with my congresscritter's response - which was really no response at all.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4261161
I've been going through this same problem of UPS not being able to read and understand their own written policy. I've given up on them and I'm now working on finding a legislator who will sponser a bill to amend USC Title 18 §1715, to allow intrastate mailing of handguns between nonlicensed individuals.
Currently, federal laws say:
Intrastate (within your state);
Shotguns and rifles can be shipped (UPS, FedEx) and mailed (USPS) from a nonlicensed individual to another nonlicensed individual.
Handguns can be shipped (UPS, FedEx) but can't be mailed (USPS) from a nonlicensed individual to another nonlicensed individual.
It is not required to notify the carrier (UPS, FedEx) that you are shipping a firearm. (UPS, FedEx policy says you must).
Reminds me, I need to update my thread with my congresscritter's response - which was really no response at all.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4261161
American_Pit_Bull
Member
I am perfectly aware of the difference between intrastate and interstate... I just pointed out your completely false statement about both parties needing to have FFLs when shipping interstate... Only the receiving party needs to have an FFL.
I didn't read the rest of your long post... Paragraphs are your friend!
And yes... In a private INTERstate sales, you can personally ship the firearm to the buyer's FFL. That's ONE license involved in the transaction...
And no one ever stated that any one could ship to a non-FFL. The only time that you, as an individual, can receive a handgun in the mail, is when a manufacturer or smith is returning your gun after service.
I am not in this thread for a debate... It just seems that time after time your rebuttal consists of confused and misinformed opinions.
The laws are very clearly stated and easily accessible. If you plan on giving advice to others, at least take a glimpse at the statutes. Don't list Billy-bob and Otto, the owners of a Drop-N-Ship, as references when discussing the legalities of anything.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Still no proof on this intra state policy gym? It still isn't posted and my local UPS definitely DOES ship intra state.
Richard.Howe
Member
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- 887
Only time FedEx has asked to see the contents of my shipment, was when if was a shipment to Hill Country Rifles. I showed them the disassembled rifle and they were hunkey-dorey.
Rich, it's just for hand guns not rifles,DBN, it's Florida, I don't live in Texas , so I wouldn't know. This has to do with shipping a handgun in FLORIDA, does anyone read the post from the begining? And Pit, you are just reading the parts that suit you, if you read the entire thing it answeres the question about Florida and Handguns, call UPS or FEDEx and ask them, then if you can prove it with a letter for them , post it, you CANT, lol
American_Pit_Bull
Member
You are the one that keeps contesting the Terms and Service agreement that is published online and in hardbound format at the UPS hubs...
Where is your letter, bub?
I can prove it with the text of their "terms and services", you are the one that opposes the printed text. And you only references are Jimbo and Uncle Hank!
American_Pit_Bull
Member
Ahh yes... Hearsay always trumps published policy and law.
Will you start another thread and issue retraction of your statements when I post the letter from UPS Corporate HQ?
I have drafted a letter and I will let you know their response. I do not expect to hear anything back from them for several weeks.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Look gym, you were the one who claimed it was company policy for both FedEx and UPS. So you aren't in Texas and so you are in Florida. Big deal. Neither company has any sort of notice of such policies on their web sites. You make claims you can't support that are just bizarre. Nobody else is able to verify your claims, so yeah, you do need a letter or web link to be believed.
Jimmy Newman
Member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2006
- Messages
- 280
From the FedEx policies webpage:
This appears to state that FedEx will ship from a normal person to an FFL and back, but not from a normal person to a normal person within one state.
From the UPS policies page:
This clearly states that UPS will ship from a normal person to an FFL and back. It also clearly states that UPS will ship from a normal person to a normal person within one state.
This appears to state that FedEx will ship from a normal person to an FFL and back, but not from a normal person to a normal person within one state.
From the UPS policies page:
This clearly states that UPS will ship from a normal person to an FFL and back. It also clearly states that UPS will ship from a normal person to a normal person within one state.
I have all the emails between myself and another member, on my machine I just went back and read through them, if anyone lives near by and wants to verify them, I would welcome them and suggest that they do that to put an end to this, I will not post private information on the internet in the form of another persons ID and private conversations between myself and another person who I had private dealings with. I have 15 emails between us going back several weeks, where we both experianced the same exact reaction from both carriers in regaurds to handguns.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
I will post their response, whatever it may be.
BTW, gym... Do you concede that both parties do not need to have an FFL when shipping interstate... Or was I just taking that out of context?
It depends who the parties are, if it's a gun with a broken part, yes he can send it to the factory without an FFL, I thought I mentioned that. Or a gunsmith, who works for a shop that covers him under thier FFL.this is with hand guns not long guns, as they told me they had no problem with that. But you can read my emails if you want to come by the house, and I'll be happy to show you all the correspondence between myself and the Gent I dealt with who was told the same thing in FL. Don't ask, don't tell. if you ask they say no handguns, we no longer handle them unless both parties have a ffl, just call them and ask them if you can ship a handgun to your friend in whatever state you live in. Let's just see if they give you the same response, forget the website, they told both of us that they stopped doing it, for liability reasons.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
You can ship to any FFL... For exapmle, a buyer's FFL in another state that you performed a sale with.
Are you saying that you don't have to have an FFL as a private party to ship a handgun to someone in the same state?, Because we were told you can't, unless it's to the manufacturer or for repair, check your email. I really did call and so did the other guy, that was one of the emails, it seems that even in the same state, policys at wallmart were different, let alone the carriers. I'll send you my address and next time you get down my way stop in for a beer, because this is getting funny at this point.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
Are you serious, or are you messing with me... Take a few minutes and try to comprehend what you are reading.
I have a lot of experience reading, drafting and editing policy, legal contracts and legal code... I have also shipped dozens of firearms via common carrier. I just wanted to clarify the confusion that can be perpetuated by employees and managers of some of the national shipping chains...
I stated that an individual can ship a firearm to ANY FFL in the entire USA and it doesn't matter if they are a manufacturer, smith, or just a gun shop. As long as an individual is shipping to a receiving FFL, it is ok.
And the email that you sent me... It didn't make any sense. As you requested, I will not post the contents.
I will post back when I receive the response from Corporate HQ... Although I have a feeling what it is going to say.
No I wasn't messing, that was one of the emails concerning what we were talking about, they Fedex, and UPS, told me on the telephone, that they no longer handle handguns in FL, unless both parties had FFL's, I said how is that possible and the Fedex supervisor said, it's getting scary out there, I swear that's exactlly what he said, I called the toll free nummber and am know holding for a supervisor, as the operator didn't know what i was talking about, ok here it is , must be a licenesed dealer manufacturer, importer, or collector, here is the number,1.800.463.3339, I specifically asked what about a licensed permit holder, she said no. so I am sorry that this is what you didn't want to hear as neither did I, but I invite anyone who sees the thread to do as I did and call Fedex. APB, I understand your frustration, but I am only telling you what they told me.
American_Pit_Bull
Member
gym... I just called the number and they specifically told me that "I", a non-licensed individual, could in fact go to a shipping hub and ship a firearm to any FFL.
She wanted to make sure that she quoted the policy correctly and after she looked it up she stressed the Priority Overnight requirement and that it had to be accepted at a shipping hub.
I don't know who you are talking to, down there, but no wonder you are so confused.
She also stated that their one and only policy is the policy that is published at their website... So any agent that tells you differently, doesn't know what they are talking about. Ask them specifically, if the policy on the website is current. If they say yes, ask them if they are sure. If they say yeas again... Go an read the policy and realize that you can ship a gun to an FFL.
I am not frustrated with their policy, because their policy hasn't changed... I could go to my local hubs tomorrow and ship a dozen handguns to various FFLs.
I am done posting until I hear back with a hard copy that I can pot for you... This is a waste of time.
What can I say, I called both asked for a supervisor that's what they told me. It wouldn't be the first ot 50'th time that a person working for a company in Fl gave out the wrong info, my wife is looking at me funny as she can't believe that I am even doing this, ok that's it going to go watch an appropriate show like Lost.
catfish101
Member
I wouldn't let it bother you GYM. Most people don't know all the rules that pertain to their own jobs.
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