I have had problems with all of them except USPS. I usually ship with FedEx ground for long guns; it is close and about the cheapest. I never accept no for an answer. I've politely insisted that they call their own customer service help line, even had the customer service escalate to their manager. I tell them their own regulations and the law; I eventually find someone that can read. I haven't been turned away yet.
UPS/FEDEX employees- 7 degrees of separation
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MattTheHat
Member
I guess I just don't understand the problem. Let's say you're returning a toilet seat that broke. Do you really take it to FedEx or UPS and say something like "I'd like to ship my broken toilet seat"? No, you fill out the form and hand it to them along with your pre-packaged box.
To those who have the shipper pack your item, do you really want them knowing there's a valuable gun in the box? Trust me, you do not. Nor do you want them to know there's a $10,000 Rolex in the box should you need to return that. If they ask why you're insuring the package for $10k, you tell them it's none of their business or "because that's what the contents are worth."
As I stated before, I have a daily UPS pickup, but when I have to ship USPS or FedEx, (or DHL back in the day) I would have to drop packages off. I never once felt the need to tell the clerk what I was shipping, even though I never shipped firearms back then.
For argument's sake, let's say there *IS* a federal requirement to inform the clerk that you're shipping a firearm. Do you really trust a friggin' UPS or FedEx clerk to record somewhere that you complied with said requirement? I mean, let's say you land in court 14 months from now for failing to comply. Even if you did inform the clerk that you were shipping a firearm, do you receive a receipt that supports that claim? No, you don't. So how would you *PROVE* that you complied?
You are responsible for complying with the *laws* of the land, not to make sure you comply with the asinine policies of the carrier. To illustrate, my store may have a policy (and post it clearly on the door) that I will shoot all sales people that enter. That, by God, is my policy. I even clearly state on the sign that I I'm not kidding. Whaddya think is going to happen when I start shooting sales folk?
To sum up...
1> Pack your own firearm. (This gives you the chance to pack it properly, without relying on the FED-UPS clerk to do a half-job.)
2> It's nobodies business what's in the box.
3> Don't forget to insure it.
4> Not mentioned previously, but don't authorize a driver release.
-Matt
To those who have the shipper pack your item, do you really want them knowing there's a valuable gun in the box? Trust me, you do not. Nor do you want them to know there's a $10,000 Rolex in the box should you need to return that. If they ask why you're insuring the package for $10k, you tell them it's none of their business or "because that's what the contents are worth."
As I stated before, I have a daily UPS pickup, but when I have to ship USPS or FedEx, (or DHL back in the day) I would have to drop packages off. I never once felt the need to tell the clerk what I was shipping, even though I never shipped firearms back then.
For argument's sake, let's say there *IS* a federal requirement to inform the clerk that you're shipping a firearm. Do you really trust a friggin' UPS or FedEx clerk to record somewhere that you complied with said requirement? I mean, let's say you land in court 14 months from now for failing to comply. Even if you did inform the clerk that you were shipping a firearm, do you receive a receipt that supports that claim? No, you don't. So how would you *PROVE* that you complied?
You are responsible for complying with the *laws* of the land, not to make sure you comply with the asinine policies of the carrier. To illustrate, my store may have a policy (and post it clearly on the door) that I will shoot all sales people that enter. That, by God, is my policy. I even clearly state on the sign that I I'm not kidding. Whaddya think is going to happen when I start shooting sales folk?
To sum up...
1> Pack your own firearm. (This gives you the chance to pack it properly, without relying on the FED-UPS clerk to do a half-job.)
2> It's nobodies business what's in the box.
3> Don't forget to insure it.
4> Not mentioned previously, but don't authorize a driver release.
-Matt
edelbrock: "Regulations can be found here."
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html
http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html#firearms
Thanks for the links. Might be a good idea to print a copy and have available when shipping in the event of a discrepancy.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html
http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html#firearms
Thanks for the links. Might be a good idea to print a copy and have available when shipping in the event of a discrepancy.
Valkman
Member
I agree. I didn't use to but when I sent a 1911 for work to a gunsmith he told me to send it overnight as "machine parts". All I have here is a UPS Store so I sent it overnight doing that no problem.
MattTheHat
Member
My point is that you don't have to "send it as" anything.
On domestic shipments there's no need for the carrier to know what's in the box. They may need to know what's *NOT* in the box. The folks at the post office often ask if there's anything breakable, hazardous, or a few other things. But they don't ask what's in the package. It's none of their business what you're shipping. I repeat:
IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS WHAT YOU'RE SHIPPING! PERIOD!
There is nowhere to declare the contents of your package, unless you're filling out a custom's form. And in that case, you wouldn't be shipping a firearm any way. Look at the FedEx Bill of Lading. Nowhere on the B.O.L. is there a space to record what the contents of the package are.
It may well be the policy of FED/UPS that you tell them, but that's not the same as a federal requirement. There is no federal requirement to ship a firearm via air. Why would there be? What difference could it possibly make to the Feds whether or not the pistol is carried on an Airplane?
If, for some reason you believe there is a federal requirement to ship via air, then go ahead and ship air, but YOU STILL DO NOT NEED TO TELL THE CARRIER THE BOX CONTAINS A FIREARM! Doing so is just asking for the clerk to cause problems, as has already been clearly attested to in this thread.
The only possible hitch I could ever see would be if you were sending a pistol-sized package to XYZ Firearms Co. Then, if the clerk were to overstep their bounds and ask what you're shipping, *THAT's* the time to tell them it's machine parts. Or for that matter, tell them it's an expensive, custom made hammer.
-Matt
MattTheHat
Member
The first link is dead, at least when I clicked it.
The second is not a Federal regulation, it's FedEx's policy page.
-Matt
Valkman
Member
There's a box on the UPS Overnight form where you're supposed to tell them what's in it, hence the "machine parts". Are you saying to leave the box blank? I think putting what I did would raise less suspicion that arguing over why I don't want to tell them what's in the package.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
SIG-Sauer twice (for the same gun, but that is another topic) e-mailed me shipping labels on which the contents were listed as "machine parts." I was in AZ at the time. After an experience at the UPS "hub" in Mesa, in which I declared there was a handgun and the clerk cut open the box I just packed and had me remove the handgun and "unload and show clear," I was very grateful. 
Also, the 3-Day Select and 2nd Day Air options are a substantial savings over Next Day Air. But you do get what you pay for with NDA - the package really does arrive the next business day. How they do it is amazing.
You are supposed to ship a handgun only to a FFL. But if the recipient is, say, Joe's Gun Shop, just address it to "Joe's, Inc." or something.
?? When I fill out the initial form at the computer terminal, there is a required field for package contents. I think you can be a little cryptic here. Handguns = Machine parts. Holsters = Leather Goods. Rifle scope: Optics. Do as little as possible to alert some package handler (and UPS has admitted their handgun thefts are mostly inside jobs) as to exactly what is in the package - the temptation may be too great.MattTheHat said:
Also, the 3-Day Select and 2nd Day Air options are a substantial savings over Next Day Air. But you do get what you pay for with NDA - the package really does arrive the next business day. How they do it is amazing.
You are supposed to ship a handgun only to a FFL. But if the recipient is, say, Joe's Gun Shop, just address it to "Joe's, Inc." or something.
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woad_yurt
Member
From what I've read, by law, you have to tell them (UPS, Fedex, et al) that it's a gun.
Here's what I found:
ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
Here's what I found:
ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
AirForceShooter
Member
I've got a UPS store that will ship my guns as long as it's to the manufactirer or an FFL.
It's against UPS rules but not against the law.
Makes life easy and we talk guns for a half hour every time I ship.
AFS
It's against UPS rules but not against the law.
Makes life easy and we talk guns for a half hour every time I ship.
AFS
tex929rr
Member
I have shipped pistols from my local "mailbox" shipping place via FedEx. We have an account at FedEx so the only interaction is handing them the box to be picked up later by the FedEx driver.
A couple of months ago Kimber shipped a 1911 to me via UPS. I was anot hmie so the driver left one of those "sign here" tags on the mailbox by my gate. I signed it and sure enough, he left the pistol the next day. I figure had no idea what was in the box.
A couple of months ago Kimber shipped a 1911 to me via UPS. I was anot hmie so the driver left one of those "sign here" tags on the mailbox by my gate. I signed it and sure enough, he left the pistol the next day. I figure had no idea what was in the box.
EOD Guy
Member
woad_yurt said:
That answer is incomplete and misleading. The requirement to notify the carrier is only applicable when shipping to a nonlicensee. If you are shipping to an FFL holder, notification is not required.
You will have top go to the cited references to get the complete citation.
Regardless of whether you are required by law or carrier rules to notify them it is a firearm or not...both UPS and FedEx require that handguns be shipped overnight only. That gets expensive to the point that on lower priced guns it almost kills decent buy or sell deals between individuals in different states. If I buy a $300 revolver from a guy 8 states away I absorb about $45 shipping plus the relatively low $25 fee at my local FFL. Now it's a $370 gun.
I honestly don't care if USP or FedEx knows whats in the box but those of you who don't tell them are still brteaking their rules if you do it so you can use the cheaper slower ground service. Good luck with a claim if you don't pay for the (very clearly required) overnight service and that thing gets lost in transit. Like it or not, they have the right to make the rules. It's probably actually cheaper to have my FFL charge me a $25 fee and get his cheaper shipping rate since he can (legally) use USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate. I am not saying it is a Federal Law to use overnight it isn't), but it is a FedEx and UPS rule and you ignore it at your own risk.
Again, you can decide not to tell FedEx it's a gun in the box, but you still have their Overnight Only rule to deal with. Have I (or some guy I know) ever got tired of it all and shipped a handgun standard FedEx ground to save $30...absolutely. Did I (errr, I mean that guy I know) risk a big mess if it fell off a truck somewhere...you bet I, we, he did.
What are you clever "Machine Parts" guys guys going to do when you have to file a lost "Machine Parts" claim? Especially when midway through the claim process they find a crushed package in the wheel well of the truck with a bent gun barrel sticking out?
I honestly don't care if USP or FedEx knows whats in the box but those of you who don't tell them are still brteaking their rules if you do it so you can use the cheaper slower ground service. Good luck with a claim if you don't pay for the (very clearly required) overnight service and that thing gets lost in transit. Like it or not, they have the right to make the rules. It's probably actually cheaper to have my FFL charge me a $25 fee and get his cheaper shipping rate since he can (legally) use USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate. I am not saying it is a Federal Law to use overnight it isn't), but it is a FedEx and UPS rule and you ignore it at your own risk.
Again, you can decide not to tell FedEx it's a gun in the box, but you still have their Overnight Only rule to deal with. Have I (or some guy I know) ever got tired of it all and shipped a handgun standard FedEx ground to save $30...absolutely. Did I (errr, I mean that guy I know) risk a big mess if it fell off a truck somewhere...you bet I, we, he did.
What are you clever "Machine Parts" guys guys going to do when you have to file a lost "Machine Parts" claim? Especially when midway through the claim process they find a crushed package in the wheel well of the truck with a bent gun barrel sticking out?
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How about this I tracked my ammo shipment from Cabela's via UPS and my ammo arrived in my city at 9:45 Friday morning however due to the fact UPS doesn't deliver on Saturday I have to wait till Monday for my ammo. FedEx and USPS both deliver Saturdays.
Deltaboy1984
Member
I use Fed Ex because the place I go is a private shipping center that is Pro-gun and the lady laughs that she ships more machine parts than most parts warehouses.
UPS better wake up and smell the coffee. Everything else I ship US Post Office and I have had nothing but good service.
UPS better wake up and smell the coffee. Everything else I ship US Post Office and I have had nothing but good service.
NavyLCDR
member
EOD Guy said:
EOD Guy, with all due respect, your answer is incomplete as well. The requirement to notify the carrier is only applicable when shipping to a nonlicensee OUT OF STATE.
Indevolatile
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Am I right in guessing then that it's not possible to ship between individuals in different states without going through a dealer? I'm in the position of trying to get part of my father's collection to him from Alaska to Arizona.
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