UPS Refuses to Ship Suppressors

[rjrivero]

Looks like UPS has dusted off some of their older policies. Firearms are okay, but no more shipping of suppressors. What kind of misguided thought process would possess them to do that?

I for one will no longer patronize the company. Too bad. I used to like to ship using UPS.


http://www.ammoland.com/2015/05/ups-refuses-to-ship-firearms-suppressors-used-for-hearing-protection/#axzz3aMQOUmRf

 

[GAMEOVER44]

If its legal in your state there should be NO issues. Thats complete crap, sorry to hear that.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I heard about this on Tom Gresham Gun Talk yesterday (podcast).

He said "What can brown do for me? Not a damn thing". LOL!

Stupid policy, to say the very very least. I've been finding FedEx to be the better carrier anyway. I think I'll be using them whenever I can.

 

[JSH1]

If its legal in your state there should be NO issues. Thats complete crap, sorry to hear that.

Likely why they don't want to bother with suppressors. Every state is different and I doubt there is enough suppressor sales to make it worth the hassle of keeping up the laws.

 

[natoround]

UPS is a crazy company. I've had a couple of friends that worked there. I have been told stories about how UPS does things on a internal level that would make this misstep seem logical. They may be concerned about a suppressor being in a non legal state during shipment in their possession. Not that I want to make excuses for them but big company lawyers issue guidance on things and no manager wants to over ride the lawyers. It probably boils down to some guy not wanting to take the chance of getting fired over it.
I drove 200 miles twice to pick up 2 suppressors.

 

[Sunray]

Entirely possible King Obama's minions at the ATF decided to put more BS into Class 3 stuff and UPS said no. Why anyone would think UPS needs to know what is in a package they are hired to carry is kind of odd though. What's in the package is none of their business.
"Suppressors Used for Hearing Protection" is nonsense.

 

[wally]

I used a small USPS flat rate box with delivery confirmation when I returned my GemTech for warranty repair, that was their recommendation. That was how they returned it to me.

If USPS has no issues, hard to see where UPS is coming from with this.

 

[Artofgolf]

I'm sure that FedEx will take over where UPS left off ......

 

[bikemutt]

I sent my Huntertown Arms .22 suppressor to the manufacturer twice now for upgrades, USPS both times. Disclosed and insured. No problem. Enclosed a copy of the form 4 to keep everyone happy.

 

[pjeski]

I sent my Huntertown Arms .22 suppressor to the manufacturer twice now for upgrades, USPS both times. Disclosed and insured. No problem. Enclosed a copy of the form 4 to keep everyone happy.

And a note explaining why you are sending it.

 

[Dan Forrester]

I used USPS priority mail last time too. Was the easiest and cheapest option!

Dan

 

[dogtown tom]

wally I used a small USPS flat rate box with delivery confirmation when I returned my GemTech.

bikemutt I sent my Huntertown Arms .22 suppressor to the manufacturer twice now for upgrades, USPS both times.

Dan Forrester I used USPS priority mail last time too.

All three of you violated USPS regulations and Federal law.
Only licensed dealers, manufacturers and certain LE can mail firearms other than rifles and shotguns.

For the purposes of mailing, USPS classifies concealable firearms the same as handguns. This means you cannot mail silencers, frames, receivers, AR lowers and handguns unless you are a licensed dealer, manufacturer or in certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer.

 

[Ranb]

I always use USPS when mailing a can.

Ranb

 

[jmorris]

Yep, silly and stupid but not unlike USPS. I can't mail a pistol but a submachinegun is OK...

 

[The Alaskan]

Entirely possible King Obama's minions at the ATF decided to put more BS into Class 3 stuff and UPS said no. Why anyone would think UPS needs to know what is in a package they are hired to carry is kind of odd though. What's in the package is none of their business.
"Suppressors Used for Hearing Protection" is nonsense.

So, by that argument, I should be able to ship 50 lbs of heroin from my source to my dealer and it should be okay, and UPS should have nothing to say about it? Or, I should be able to ship marijuana (it's legal here in AK now-don't get me started) to my cousin in Colorado, where it is also legal, so he can sell it and that should be okay? Even though it has to go through several states where it is illegal. We should just have a total free for all?

See where I'm going with this? You put your box on a UPS truck or plane, they have every right to know what is in the box and every right to open it up and look in there. Remember, they're a private company, not government entity. It's very much akin of you asking me to bring a box down from Ak next time I drive south. If you think I'm going to take a box from someone, put it in my truck, and drive around town with it, without knowing what's in it, you're very much mistaken.

Besides...this buying and selling of suppressors as with any product of any nature) is interstate commerce clause...it should all be under a Federal law someplace in the billions of pages of Federal laws that guide our lives. (that was sarcasm, just in case you missed it.)

 

[The Alaskan]

I always use USPS when mailing a can.

Ranb

I don't get this. I read comments like this in forums quite often, but I've never seen it done. Every time I have ever tried to mail a gun (to myself) the staff at the post office has absolutely refused to accept it. I've showed them the regs that allow it, and the staff and management have always always always refused to accept the gun. (Long guns) This has happened at post offices in states that have pretty open gun laws, where gun ownership is very common (FL, TX, AK), and during presidential administrations that were friendly to gun owners (during both Bush administrations). I have NEVER been able to mail a gun. I just quit trying.

You know how I got my guns to AK? It took YEARS of traveling to visit family, and I brought every one of them up on AK Airlines as checked baggage.

 

[Speedo66]

I guess it all depends on who's behind the counter. I've shipped long guns through the mail.

 

[Ranb]

Even though there are restrictions on mailing handguns, there is nothing that says I can't mail a silencer to a co-trustee. It is that simple.

Here is a link to shipping firearms; it is commerce related. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...f84065f4&mc=true&node=se27.3.478_131&rgn=div8

Shipping a firearm to yourself or a co-owner is not commerce. I'm not a lawyer either.

Ranb

 

[rundm]

Fed ex delivers a lot earlier in my area anyways.

 

[dogtown tom]

Ranb I always use USPS when mailing a can.

hopefully you are a licensed dealer...........'cause if you are not, and they catch you, you'll never own a gun again.

Ranb Even though there are restrictions on mailing handguns, there is nothing that says I can't mail a silencer to a co-trustee.

Oh good grief........are you serious?
Have you read one shred of USPS regulations?
Have you read one shred of ATF regulation?

While ATF regs allow you to ship a firearm interstate to YOURSELF, they do not permit an interstate shipment to a nonlicensee. Whether they are a "co-trustee" is immaterial.

It is that simple.

Here is a link to shipping firearms; it is commerce related. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...8_131&rgn=div8

Uh.....that has absolutely nothing to do with mailing a firearm.

Try reading the USPS regs. (then you'll see just how foolish you are).

Shipping a firearm to yourself or a co-owner is not commerce.

USPS regs clearly prohibit anyone but licensed dealers, manufacturers or certain LE from mailing handguns or other firearms capable of being concealed.

Ownership has nothing to do with the legal requirements for the interstate transfer of firearms.

I'm not a lawyer either.

You don't need to be a lawyer to understand USPS or ATF regulations.
Further you just admitted to several violations of Federal law, any one of which would prevent you from ever possessing a firearm again.

You should stop posting before digging your hole deeper.

 

[Dan Forrester]

I read online about the legality of mailing a suppressor USPS. Didn't seem like there was any clear answer either way. I finally called the manufacturer and they said it was no problem.

All they ask is if you have anything fragil, liquid, hazardous or perishable or something like that. I just say no. If i'm shipping a long gun or rifle receiver I don't say anything. Just mail it!

Ive seen people I know mail everything from pistols to marijuana via USPS and no one has ever had any problems.

Dan

 

[JSH1]

All three of you violated USPS regulations and Federal law.
Only licensed dealers, manufacturers and certain LE can mail firearms other than rifles and shotguns.

For the purposes of mailing, USPS classifies concealable firearms the same as handguns. This means you cannot mail silencers, frames, receivers, AR lowers and handguns unless you are a licensed dealer, manufacturer or in certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer.

USPS rules don't mention suppressors at all.

The only mention of concealability of rifles or shotguns is in the "General" section: "Short-barreled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on the person are nonmailable." A short-barreled rifle or shotgun is a special class of weapon that needs to be registered with the ATF. Taking your barrel off an 870 shotgun doesn't turn it into a short-barreled shotgun.

USPS rules do specifically say that you can't mail a handgun frame or receiver: "Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers or other parts or components regulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C."

USPS rules for mailing firearms are here: http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

 

[dogtown tom]

JSH1

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
All three of you violated USPS regulations and Federal law.
Only licensed dealers, manufacturers and certain LE can mail firearms other than rifles and shotguns.

For the purposes of mailing, USPS classifies concealable firearms the same as handguns. This means you cannot mail silencers, frames, receivers, AR lowers and handguns unless you are a licensed dealer, manufacturer or in certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer.

USPS rules don't mention suppressors at all.

Correct........they are referred to as "firearm muffler or firearm silencer.
(and for what its worth, ATF regs don't mention "suppressor" either.)


Read this: http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm

43 Firearms
431 Definitions
431.1 Firearm
The following definitions apply:
a. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include antique firearms (except antique firearms meeting the description of a handgun or of a firearm capable of being concealed on a person).
b.Firearm frame or receiver is the part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel. Frames and receivers usually (but not always) include the firearm serial number and are usually considered to be the regulated component of a firearm.

The only mention of concealability of rifles or shotguns is in the "General" section: "Short-barreled rifles or shotguns that can be concealed on the person are nonmailable." A short-barreled rifle or shotgun is a special class of weapon that needs to be registered with the ATF. Taking your barrel off an 870 shotgun doesn't turn it into a short-barreled shotgun.

Wrong. Read Publication 52 that I linked to above.
You'll find:

431.2 Handguns

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:
a.Handgun (including pistols and revolvers) means any firearm which has a short stock, and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand and subject to 431.1, or a combination of parts from which a handgun can be assembled.
b.Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

USPS rules do specifically say that you can't mail a handgun frame or receiver: "Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers or other parts or components regulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C."

Correct. But you should understand how USPS defines "handguns". If you read the definition I posted above you'll see it isn't the same as ATF, and intended to prohibit the mailing of ANY concealable firearm.

USPS rules for mailing firearms are here: http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

You should read that link as well as the rest of Publication 52

 

[JSH1]

Tom,

I've read the USPS rules. The receiver for a rifle or shotgun does not become a short barrel rifle or shotgun, nor a handgun when the barrel is removed.

I've also sent receivers to H&R (Remington) to have barrels fitted through their barrel accessory program. I specifically asked if it was OK to ship USPS and they said "yes". (Their shipping instructions also say to use USPS or UPS) I'm confident that a firearm manufacturer with more than $1 Billion in sales understands the rules for shipping a firearm.

If you want to use a very very conservative interpretation of the USPS rules that's fine.

 

[dogtown tom]

JSH1 Tom, I've read the USPS rules. The receiver for a rifle or shotgun does not become a short barrel rifle or shotgun, nor a handgun when the barrel is removed.

No one has said anything of the sort.....not me, not USPS.

Surely you understand what USPS means when they say "..and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person..." ?

For the purposes of mailing, USPS classifies "firearms capable of being concealed on the person" as handguns............says so right there in 431.2

Further, 431.1 defines a firearm frame or receiver as..........wait for it.....a firearm. Imagine that.

I've also sent receivers to H&R (Remington) to have barrels fitted through their barrel accessory program. I specifically asked if it was OK to ship USPS and they said "yes".

Since when did Remington become the authority on USPS regulations?
Despite the USPS regs I've posted, you choose to take the advice of an anonymous Remington customer service rep?
That's not real smart.

(Their shipping instructions also say to use USPS or UPS) I'm confident that a firearm manufacturer with more than $1 Billion in sales understands the rules for shipping a firearm.

Only a fool would believe that.
UPS recently changed their policy to prohibit the shipping of silencers.......yet GemTech argued for days on AR15 until they took the time to read the actual policy change.

If you want to use a very very conservative interpretation of the USPS rules that's fine.

I'm using the same interpretation as the Postal Inspectors........this isn't anything new fella. It's been USPS regulations for decades.