US shipping 2,000 guns a day to Mexico

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Yes guns sold/given to the Mexican military end up in druggies hands..Hummmmm....There are so many stories of illegal/wrong doings on both sides and it would be hard to point a finger without finding a bad guy or offical.
 
Now if I was an aspiring cartel thug, which would I choose:

1. A semi automatic AK clone of sometimes questionable quality that I had to trek to the US to buy, at an overpriced rate, and then smuggle someway back into Mexico.

OR

2. A fully automatic weapon smuggled by the cartel from former Commie block countries/Mexican police on the payroll/South american sympathizers.

Easy choice. The full auto is probably cheaper to boot. These random "cartels get their weapons from the evil gun toting Americans" figures don't add up, or leave out some important facts. See: 90% of all guns traced come back to the US fuzzy math.
 
if the typical US/ MEXICO reported statistics were accurate, there would be 500 million illegal aliens here, 10 guns in every pocket in Mexico
 
These reports are untrue. They are simply propaganda offered by people who want more laws. If the lies stand, they will get what they want. We have to challenge these stories at the source, even on the local level. When a local news outlet provides one of these "informative" stories, we have to contact them. Writing a gun blog doesn't do a thing.
 
BATF doesn't like competition to their Gunrunner, er, Gunwalker programs. Out of Phoenix AZ alone the BATF facilitated over 2,000 guns sold to straw buyers so the drug cartels could take them to Mexico. But, whoops, one of the guns they let walk, was the weapon used to murder the Border Patrolman here in AZ. The BP agent had to shoot bean bags against the perp armed with a AK semi-auto.
 
"So if a liberal think tank throws out that figure with no information on how that figure was reached, why should we believe that 2,000 guns a day go from the US to Mexico?"

If any think tank, govt agency, or scholar throws out a number without a discussion of the methodology used to arrive at that number, then we must disregard it.
 
Maybe this is the lawyer in me looking for someone to blame, but my paranoia about these reports is growing. I am not one that usually likes to wear the tinfoil hat or build myself a bunker to hide from the black helicopters but in this case I am starting to look over my shoulder.

In the United States the amount of killings done by "assault rifles" is extremely low compared to handguns and even lower than even bare hands killings. Before certain politicians took power there were no reports about guns going to Mexico from the US. Though I am sure it happened here and there, it never became an issue to be reported on until power switched hands in American government.

We don't know WHO ordered the ATF agents to let those guns walk into Mexico. We don't know WHY they let smugglers take so many time after time.
We don't know HOW many weapons really get in there. (other than a Washington based liberal think tanks says 2000 per day, but won't say how they got those numbers. Really? Washington is a great place to do research on what goes through the Mexican border?)
We do know who the leader of the executive branch is and in charge of what the ATF is doing. We do know that there was a massive failure in protection of American and Mexican lives because of this poor plan. We also know that reports of gun violence in Mexico sways public opinion and builds political power towards the restriction of gun rights. Who has the most to benefit from these reports?

I cannot help but weigh the circumstantial evidence and come to a conclusion that someone WANTS there to be an issue to report on. Someone wants "assault rifle"/gun bad press.

Lastly I pose this question: Assuming that there really are 2000 guns getting across the border every day, what is the chance that the ATF would want to stop the ones they don't know about when they don't even have incentive to stop the ones they do know about?
 
The large numbers are baseless and have to be propaganda designed for political purposes. The CBS article mentioned that 90% are ultimately traced to the US, but previous stories shed light on the 90% number as it was only the ones which Mexico asked the ATF to run traces on them. The the ATF sends agents into Mexico without the ability to protect themselves. The 2,000/day number (est) is almost a joke if the Border Patrol can't find more than 200. The fiction builds. There has to be a political purpose behind such factually poor reporting.
 
There is unquestionably some what might be described as “amateur gun smuggling” going on – sometimes for profit, but often an attempt by Mexican-Americans to provide arms for extended family members in Mexico so that they can defend themselves in a country where on one hand strict gun control laws prevent law-abiding citizens from having means for self defense, while on the other hand the government fails to provide adequate protection from criminal elements. It is important to understand the difference between this, and providing arms for the drug cartels. The example of gunrunning in the article cited above could be motivated because of either reason.
 
I am going to repeat my talking points on this issue....

.....because everything else is a distraction from the real issues.

If it were US guns that were keeping Mexico's draconian gun control from achieving the goal of "a society free from gun violence", then the US would logically have more gun violence than Mexico. Cuidad Juarez, Mexico is just across the river from El Paso, Texas. AP: "More than 2,600 people were killed last year (2009) in the city of 1.3 million people." WP: "Neighboring El Paso, Texas, with a population of 600,000, reported 10 homicides in 2009" and "In 2010 CQ Press ranked El Paso safest city in the U.S. with a population over 500,000. http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_16675219 "

Cuidad Juarez: 200 murders per 100,000 in 2009
El Paso, Texas: 1.67 murders per 100,000 in 2009

Yep, those lax gun laws in the US somehow cause more crime in Mexico and less crime in Texas. That's as stuck on stupid as claiming tough gun laws in Mexico cause less crime in the US, but watch how the Obama Administration and our mainstream media spin it next!

Part of the problem may well be that strict gun law does not disarm criminals, promotes rampant gun gunning, assures unarmed victims to both armed and unarmed criminals, and actually emboldens criminals assuring more violence overall.
 
While I believe the 2,000 gun figure to be grossly inflated, if it is somehow accurate, then the BATF is involved at an even deeper level than originally estimated. This kind of straw purchasing and smuggling without getting caught is impossible.

What we know about project gunrunner tells us that the ATF knowingly allows scores of illegal firearms to be smuggled into Mexico. This would include watching the smugglers actually do it, and being told to stand down from intervening. What we don't know is why. If and when the "why" is answered , I believe this will be the biggest scandal of the Obama administration's tenure in office.

FWIW, all we can do at this time is speculate at why project gunrunner exists. Myself, I believe there is one of two things going on, or maybe they are a combined effort. IMHO, the US either has an interest in protecting the Mexican drug cartels, or they have an interest in bringing down the firearms industry. I can see no other possible reason for KNOWINGLY allowing this to happen. Regardless of which of those two it might be, the implications are horrific and massive. This kind of agenda would require BATF strong arming of FFL's, possible recruitment or aiding of straw purchasers and smugglers, and possibly even BATF firearms distribution.

I don't usually buy into conspiracies, but this isn't a conspiracy anymore, it is actively being investigated and appears to have real factual grounding. I really hope the truth in this comes out.
 
Wouldn't a person that buys a lot of guns over a short period of time trigger the background check? After all, that's what it's for isn't it? My government wouldn't spend millions on a system that only harassed law abiding citizens....would it?....anybody......hello....can you hear me?
 
The 2,000 a Day is Patently Absurd (aka whale dren)

ATF figures for 2008 were 4,298,202 firearms made in the US;
228,493 firearms legally exported.

The alleged 2,000 per day to Mexico times 365 days is 730,000.

That would be the equivalent of almost 17% of all guns made in America being slipped across the border to Mexico each year.

That would be three times the legal exports each year.
 
Instead of agonizing over symptoms, let's get to some of the roots of our problems with our neighbor to the south. Let's enact the Mexican Border Reality Act.

1. Admit we lost the war on weed long ago and quit spending billions on a never-ending battle our own citizens don't want won. Legalize it, tax it, regulate it the same as alcohol. Allow American growers to compete.

2. Make it a felony to hire illegal aliens and don't exempt lawn care providers and maid services. It won't end the flood but it should cut down the flow.

3. Enforce the laws against straw purchases but tell the Mexican government that since we're not the problem, we can't be the solution, either.

Hmmm...that should be enough to upset everyone. But I bet it would work better than what we've got now.
 
1. Admit we lost the war on weed long ago and quit spending billions on a never-ending battle our own citizens don't want won.
Click to expand...

Bingo!
Like the "war on poverty", the "war on drugs" was lost decades ago. The political hacks who run this country want to keep prisons full of dope smokers and low level dealers. Prisons are the largest industry in the US.
 
I wouldn't trust that article, as we all know that 94.783% of all statistics used in arguments are made up on the spot.
 
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