USA SIGs quality not as good as in the past?

[rellascout]

this may indeed be cheaper, but the move away from Caspian slides and frames is what has made their 1911 models more reliable. just because a company can make outstanding gunsmith fit parts doesn't mean they can hold the tolerances needed for a production pistol

You are correct in many ways but your statement only reinfoces what I am saying about Sigs mindset and the motivation which drives the current production model. IMHO the Caspian slide required more hand fitting which = more time. <ore time = more $$$. The problem from day one is that they wanted to move the metal when it came to the GSR and with the caspian parts and storm lake barrels the handfitting took too much time and IMHO too much skill to get them to run properly.

If you have a Gen 1 GSR that runs it is a tack driver on par with the best production 1911s in the game. The problem was not enough of them were properly assembled.

 

[docnyt]

rellascout, I think you hit several nails on the head with post # 24

 

[jon_in_wv]

A few months ago I bought a new P220 made with the German stamped steel slide and the internal extractor. I couldn't be happier with it.

 

[The_BushMaster]

On Wednesday, I took out my new P238, manufacturer's date June 29, 2010. I put 218 rounds of three different brands of ammo through it without a single hitch. I was quite impressed with the accuracy. At seven yards all rounds went in the 10 ring. At 25 yards, I kept all rounds in the 9 ring off-hand. I've owned a number of handguns for 35 years, but this is my first Sig. I think I'll keep it!

 

[Clint C]

I think the P238's problem is that they copied someone elses design,

Yeah it's called the design of the 1911 model.

 

[Utahusker]

A few months ago I bought a new P220 made with the German stamped steel slide and the internal extractor. I couldn't be happier with it.

I bought a milled slide external extractor a month ago, and so far it's been flawless with over 500 rounds.

 

[Zerodefect]

SIG Arms, it's the New Kimber.



....actually, I like some Kimbers.

 

[m500'92]

So how much of the new Sigs are made in USA. The frames are made in Switzerland, aren't they? And what's with them being the new Kimber, I thought they're owned by Swiss Arms AG?

 

[bgrav321]

I have an SP2022, serial number 3953. I realize its not a P series, but the frame says "made in Germany" and the slide says "SIG SAUER INC EXETER NH"

The frames are still German I believe, not Swiss.

Call me cheap, but I like mine better than any other pistol I've shot. Including Glocks, Smiths, and Kimbers.

So while they may not be the original German gun of legend, they're still pretty darn good.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I like Sigs a lot, I've had three that were very good, 1 German, 2 American, no problems. But researching for a new 9mm ranges gun, even the German made 9mm's (Allround and Sport) seem to be having extractor issues (internal).

 

[9mmepiphany]

So how much of the new Sigs are made in USA. The frames are made in Switzerland, aren't they? And what's with them being the new Kimber, I thought they're owned by Swiss Arms AG?

all of the current production Classic P-series frames and slides are produced domestically. The X-5 series are produced in Germany...none of the Sigs have been produced in Switzerland since the P210.

The Sig 220 was designed by SIG in Switzerland and then partnered with Sauer, to be produced by SIG-Sauer in Germany to get around export restrictions. Sig Sauer was the commonly know name for the company. The American arm of the company was SigArms, until a recent name change back to Sig Sauer.

Sig is often referred to as the new Kimber, because they hired Ron Cohen (formerly of Kimber) which coincided with the perceived decline of build quality and the introduction/embarrassment of their Mosquito and P238

 

[MCMXI]

I've owned SIGs since '92 and have seven in all ranging from very early '90s to current day production and don't see any significant differences in quality or reliability and I'm one picky bastard. In many ways, the newer SIGs with stainless steel slides and Nitron coating are an improvement over the "original". My only complaint is the new "short" trigger because it pinches my finger, particularly during DA. I know a bunch of shooters that prefer the new trigger but I much prefer the original standard trigger and am in the process of switching out the P220 Combat and Carry triggers.

I've been shooting the Combat and Carry a lot recently, and just like my earlier SIGs, they're 100% reliable with factory or reloaded ammunition. Thus far, my Combat is the most accurate SIG yet, even though they're all more than accurate enough.

But researching for a new 9mm ranges gun, even the German made 9mm's (Allround and Sport) seem to be having extractor issues (internal).

Then you should try the P225. I have a couple and the P225 has proven to be a superb pistol being both accurate and reliable. I've only had one issue with mine and that's 88gr Remington JHP ammunition. That particular brand/bullet type/bullet weight is just too short (COL) to function reliably. With industry standard ammunition of 115gr or greater, jacketed, lead, HP, RN etc. the P225 is phenomenal. I'd trust my life to the P225, no question about it. My latest SIG, a P239 SAS Gen 2 has an external extractor but who cares!

 

[PO2Hammer]

Then you should try the P225. I have a couple and the P225 has proven to be a superb pistol being both accurate and reliable.

Yes, that's a nice pistol, also saw a nice P228 (W. German) at the toy store the other day, but I'm looking for a full size 9mm for range plinking and outdoor shooting.
I have a Glcok 19, so the P225 would be a bit redundant.

I was looking at the German Sport and Allround, but the internal extractor has me leery, not to mention the price. I'm thinking about getting a P226 Navy, German frame and the neat little anchor, something an old squid can appreciate. Not much more than a plain P226.
I'm sure someone will bash the Navy model as a gimmick, but DILLIGAF?

 

[Prion]

Reminds me of all the other 'old vs new' subjects. Older cars, vinyl records, W German Sigs, all the old stuff is better.

Fact is that back in the 'good old days' we didn't have the internet and forums to spread word of every companies every failing. Back then only a few folks would know of your particular guns issue. That, plus selective memory, and everything appears to have been better.

My Sigs have been great but then I try not to idealize the past.

 

[MCMXI]

I was looking at the German Sport and Allround, but the internal extractor has me leery, not to mention the price. I'm thinking about getting a P226 Navy, German frame and the neat little anchor, something an old squid can appreciate. Not much more than a plain P226.
I'm sure someone will bash the Navy model as a gimmick, but DILLIGAF?

Of my seven SIGs, three have internal extractors and four have external extractors. I don't see any difference in reliability so I wouldn't make a choice based on the extractor alone. One of my older P220s with the internal extractor has around 15k rounds through it without a single problem! Anyway, that Navy version is a nice pistol. I don't own a P226 but if I were shopping for one, it'd be the Combat TB based on my experience with the P220 version or the Elite Dark with the short reset trigger (SRT).

 

[PO2Hammer]

Impulse purchase alert!
I just bought a used P220 ST on Gunbroker.
Stainless frame and slide, external extractor, no beavertail, has a rail unfortunately, looks to be in very good condition. 2 mags, original case. 39 ounces.

 

[JohnBT]

"My Sigs have been great but then I try not to idealize the past."

My Kimber Stainless Gold Match has been great, but I bought it in 1999. We had the internet back then too and the decline of Kimber was documented on line as it happened.

My only Sig is an X-5 TAC, but the decline of Sig from extraordinary to merely average has also been documented over the years.

John

 

[Ala Dan]

IMHO

The American made SIG's have NEVER been of the quality of a German made
and assembled SIG~!

 

[OmutaX]

Am I spoiled for having only exclusively handled W. German Sig P22x's my whole life? My German made SP2022 is flawless as well, w/ its internal extractor. I've heard there are batches of lemon SP2022's with the newer external extractors going around.

 

[MCMXI]

The American made SIG's have NEVER been of the quality of a German made
and assembled SIG~!

Give some examples of what you perceive to be the differences in quality between German and German/US SIGs. By the way, I have examples of both so I'll be paying close attention.

 

[JohnBT]

Sigforum is full of examples, with pics. And I've only been reading posts there for about a year, compared to about 11 years of following the Kimber saga.

I don't have a dog in this fight because my only Sig is an X-5 TAC TB. But I read fast and read a lot.

 

[MCMXI]

Sigforum is full of examples, with pics. And I've only been reading posts there for about a year, compared to about 11 years of following the Kimber saga.

I'm a member on that site and have been a visitor there for years. Many of the complaints about newer SIGs have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with aesthetics. There's definitely a snob factor with the German made SIGs but that's common in every aspect of firearms whether it's reloading equipment, rifles, optics or whatever. All I know is what I've experienced for myself in almost 20 years of owning and shooting SIGs. 99.9% of the internet is nothing but noise.

 

[thorazine]

USA SIGs quality not as good as in the past?

All of mine were built between 2003 and 2006 and I like them a lot better compared to the older west german sigs.

 

[rellascout]

All of mine were built between 2003 and 2006 and I like them a lot better compared to the older west german sigs.

Based on what criteria? I am interested why you like the newer ones better?

 

[Utahusker]

I'm a member on that site and have been a visitor there for years. Many of the complaints about newer SIGs have nothing to do with quality and everything to do with aesthetics. There's definitely a snob factor with the German made SIGs but that's common in every aspect of firearms whether it's reloading equipment, rifles, optics or whatever. All I know is what I've experienced for myself in almost 20 years of owning and shooting SIGs. 99.9% of the internet is nothing but noise.

I will second this entirely.