USFA 1858 Remington

[sundance44s]

I finally got through on the phone to USFA yesterday ..I had heard they were ready to take orders for the 1858 Remington and 1875 Remington .
They are indeed takeing orders for both guns the 1875 will be out end of July . The 1858 sometime in Aug . All the things we have heard about the price ...is right on ...the 1858 Price is 1,495.00 the 1875 is 1,895.00 ..
Well that ended my love affair for a USFA Remington...Uberti`s are looking better every day now ...I hope someone buys one and turns the cylinder on it ...They are non shooting safe queens to me .

 

[Old Fuff]

Well by August the dollar will be worthless, and you can afford the revolver - so long as you pay with someone else's currency.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

I wouldn't give $1495.00 for Wes Hardin's 1860 plus that chippie he shot that man hehind while he was laying there snoring....I'vd got my 58's hardened up on the inside and I'vd got good rifled barrels on them. They'll do me. I'm a good shot but they're still capable of shooting a lot better than I can shoot. I only shoot one of them anyway. The rest of them are just backups. About the only gun or gun part I'll ever buy from now on is maybe for the Cattleman's Carbine. I know of this company and they told me that they can replace the 18 inch barrel that came on it with a good rifled 24 incher. That is something I will have to think about. It sound's real nice and it probably is but I just can't decide if it's worth it to me. Probably not. It's easy to swing around and mess with now. If I get that longer barrel it might just mess up everything. I might fool around and get a good 18 incher to replace the one that's on there. I don't know. It's more accurate than I am right now just the way it is.
I wonder how many of those gun's they will sell? I know they're bound to sell a few but I just can't see them selling very damn many. I may be wrong but it just dosen't seem to me like the blackpowder market is that big as a whole all put together, much less when it's targeted at one individual handgun with that kind of price attached to it....Anybody check the price of a good Desert .357 or .44 Mag. here lately?

 

[Im283]

Those prices are crazy expensive. I don't care how wealthy I was I would not drop near two grand on a six shooter. Thats just nuts. I wonder how they stay in business if that is representative of their pricing.

 

[Old Fuff]

I wonder how they stay in business if that is representative of their pricing.

No problem. They aren't looking at people like us. The market they want is made up of wealthy collectors and some cowboy action shooters. The price of the gun includes braging rights, and that will draw in the got-to-have-it crowd.

Do remember that the prices we're looking at are the MSRP. What they sell for on the street may be different.

 

[luckytexan]

Those prices are crazy expensive. Thats just nuts. I wonder how they stay in business if that is representative of their pricing.

They stay in business because they make very high quality firearms. Those who purchase them apparently feel they are worth the price.

When you peruse this forum, you'll see a lot of questions and suggestions on how to improve a particular firearm. For the price you pay for a USFA, all of those improvements are already done.

Here's a link to a Gunblast article that quotes Hamilton Bowen, who makes quite a living tuning single-actions, saying that nothing needs to be done to USFAs. (The article is refering to their SAA, but it does give you an idea of the quality they put into their firearms.) http://www.gunblast.com/Cumpston_USFA-PreWar.htm

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Well, I'm not saying they're not real fine pieces. I'm sure they are, and I'm sure that to some people they are worth that price. I'm not saying that someone is crazy because they buy one of them. I'm just saying that's a lot of money to lay on the table for something you know nothing about other than what someone else said.
I know there are collector's who will grab up a few here and there. If a guy want's to collect, hell, let him or her go for it. I'm not arguing, I just see it different. My guns work. I only have about two that I shoot regularly and a '49 I use now and then. The rest are backups, not collector items. I don't lock my pieces in a safe or hang them on the wall to admire. I don't worry about the bluing wearing off from sliding in and out of the holster. I sit down now and then and re-blue them.
I don't do it very often because I use hot bluing and it last's a long time.
I don't know. It just seem's to me that if they sold at lower prices and did some advertising they could sell a lot more and still make good money because they'd be selling in volume.
Ya'll just wait and see. This won't last, not at anywhere near those prices. Pietta and Ulberti are making too many good shooting guns at much better prices. It won't even last near as long as the ROA lasted and in the scheme of things that wasn't very long.
So what? Of course the collector's will still have their's locked away in a safety deposit box somewhere but what damn good is it doing them or anyone else? They're not getting any damn use out of it. The only one who came out ahead here is the company that sold it to them. You buy a home, you live in it. You buy a car, you drive it. Who want's a gun you're afraid to shoot? Status symbol? s***. Security? Security is a good Walker or '58 tuned up good and riding in that holster loaded and capped and ready to go from one second to the next. I call that security....

 

[Mike OTDP]

The question is, how accurate are the USFA guns going to be...and how good the triggers. I might buy one...IF it can shoot with the top-of-the-line German guns.

Because $1500 is not at all out of line for a truly accurate gun.

 

[luckytexan]

GOC, I agree completely with your sentiments about how guns should be used and not locked up in a safe. (I'd make some exceptions for rare pieces that might belong in a museum, though.)

One of the things that draw me to firearms is how form follows function. Personally, I don't know that I'd buy their '58 Remingtion re-issue, but I'd love to have a USFA Pre-War Single Action Army. But I guarantee you it would get its fair share of use. To do no more than look at a firearm is to only appreciate it halfway.

Mike OTDP,

Because $1500 is not at all out of line for a truly accurate gun.

one would hope that for $1500, it would be truly accurate. Let's hope so.

 

[Old Fuff]

What we got here is a crisis of perspective. I don’t know about the rest of you, but in this particular undertaking the Old Fuff’s perspective goes way back to the late 1940’s. In those days there were no reproduction cap & ball revolvers, so everyone that shot them used an original 19th century gun. Fortunately at the time they were mostly affordable, especially those that were suffering a bit. Our bible was the Dixie Gun Works’ catalog that contained the necessary parts (including new-manufactured cylinders and barrels), tools, accessories, supplies and whatever to rebuild an old clunker. Even so, there were relatively few players in the game.

During the early 1960 the picture changed big time when the first Italian, Spanish and Belgian reproductions started to arrive. Most were a bit rough for shooting, but we were used to handing such minor inconveniences. It was a good thing too because about this same time collectors started moving the old gun prices through the roof. Without the foreign clones the game would have died off.

As time went by the Italian guns kept getting better, while more and more shooters discovered the fun they’d been missing. One thing remained the same. It was a common practice for users to do their own gunsmithing, and that remains true today.

Personally I welcome the arrival of an American made gun of the highest quality. Of course it’s going to be expensive, but best quality usually is. The USFA product may be too expensive for a lot of us, but that’s no reason to get a case of sour grapes. That fact is, none of the previous options has changed. Those guns we have been using are still available, and although the dollar’s plunge will increase the price of foreign imports I believe they will still be reasonably affordable. And for those that tinker and fix, Turner Kirkland’s Dixie Gun Works catalog is still around, and still just costs $5.00! Contrary to what some believe, Colt and Remington cap & ball revolvers are not very complicated, and tuning and fix’n does not require a degree in mechanical engineering.

Quite frankly, anybody who can still remember the 1940’s will tell you that today’s shooters are in Paradise compared to what it used to be. You new guys simply don't know what good is, nor how lucky you are to have what you do have.

So if you’re not in the market for a $1,500 gun, don’t grouse about it; instead go out and build a better one. If your chamber and bore are concentric, and the chamber diameter matches the bore, and you put on a higher front sight, your Italian clone will shoot far better then you can hold it. You really don’t need any more then that, and I’m not so sure the carriage trade gun can deliver any more useable accuracy, although it will offer the best possible cosmetics.

So go out and use what you have, and make the most of it. On many occasions the Old Fuff went out on the firing line, stood next to a shooter with the most expensive gun on the market, and shot his pants off with an economy model (tweeked or course).

Is there some reason you can’t do the same…??

 

[Perk]

Have to go with Old Fuff (Not Fluff, or some such – as I have, apologetically , spelt the name.)

Did Wild Bill go to the grave without a couple of engraved shooters at his side? Are not the best snipers availed of the most precise sniper-shooters available? And I mean, over the years – not, just lately.

As a suggestion, mind you: Wait until the stats come out, for these things. Then, see if it’s worth our soon-to-be-even-more-inflated dollars to buy one (or, the set). If not, wait a bit longer. Should other s decide in the negative, the distributors’ll have to reduce their prices. Otherwise, the iron’d be worth just that - lacking further sales.

Should it turn out that these things fire as pretty as they look; sell the farm and buy ‘em, if you’re of a mind.

Have got a truck that’ll pay for the cost of a set, myself. But, only if they turn out to be worth more’n the work value of said truck.

As the man says: You… make the call!

 

[Bad Flynch]

Well, for everyone that is concerned about the price of USFA revolvers, here is my take.

Two weeks ago, I walked into a gun shop and saw a USFA Single Action. It was their top of the line model, but nothing fancy, except that it was nickel plated. The caliber was .45 Colt.

I have shot a large number of different single-actions, including a Colt cavalry model built in 1876, Hammerlis, Dakotas, Ubertis, Uberti/Cimarrons, Rugers, and Colts, to name a few. I have this thing about SAAs.

Here is both the good and the bad news: The USFA is the best SAA-type firearm of the Colt design that I have every handled, and it came home with me immediately. Colt should learn to do so well.

If the 1858 is built like The Single Action, it will be worth every penny of the price.

 

[Old Fuff]

Did Wild Bill go to the grave without a couple of engraved shooters at his side?

Actually no...

He was buried with a Smith & Wesson No. 2 Old Army, with a tip-up barrel and chambered in .32 RF. That and a sporterized .45-70 Springfield rifle. Neither might have been his. One of his famous pair of ivory-stocked and engraved 1851 Navies is in a museum in California. The whereabouts of the other one is unknown.

 

[Im283]

I am not grousing about the cost of this gun. If you have the money and are so inclined to spend it on this then by all means have at it. God Bless you for it.

Personally I don't see, really can't begin to justify, spending this kind of cake for most any fire arm. For 1500 bucks I could buy three or four quality single action pistols.

Maybe they are worth it but I really don't see how.

 

[pohill]

I doubt very much that the USFA execs decided to make such a gun with the hopes that someone would buy some of them. I'm sure they researched the market beforehand, and they know exactly what they're doing. You don't have to buy a Jaguar or Mercedes if you can't afford one, but it's good to know they're out there if you can. These guns will sell well, and increase in value over time.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Well, accuracy will be the major test.
I'm sure the cosmetics will be of the highest order. I'm sure they will have smooth actions and all.
I just want to make sure here that everybody understand's that I am not bitching or complaining.
But what I do want to see is how accurate this thing is. I'm not worried. I know I'll be hearing all about it.
It's my contention here that you can take a Pietta or Uberti straight out of the cardboard box that it come's in, and take the USFA straight out of the gold and platinum and ruby encrusted box that it come's in; and take two average shooters and stand them on the firing line. Then check the targets at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards. (we'll stop here at 100 yards because this is not the Walker we're talking about)
I don't think you would see very much difference....

 

[sundance44s]

Well the way I was seeing it ...Ruger built the best built cap and ball revolver ever made , they could have just as easily have made a copy of the 1858 Remington ..but they didn`t they chose to improve on the design ...and they used good quality american steel ....they sold alot of ROA`s and those will be around for a long time ....They priced their ROA such that they would be great shooters not safe queens ..I will probally never know anyone that buys the USFA 1858 Remington , much less shoots the heck out of one ....so high Quality sits in a gun safe somewhere never to see the light of day ..This is sad to me ...I wanted to see these guns in the hands of cowboy action shooters ..giveing them a real work out ..like they have the Itilian copys .
maybe one day if they don`t sell so well USFA will drop the price like they did on the 1873 clone they call the Rodeo ..heck it`s down too 550.00 these day MSVR price ...I`ve got a Uberti 1873 clone that cost 435.00 ...awful close to the price of the USFA Rodeo ...These USFA Rodeo`s are getting a real work out on the cowboy action market place too.

 

[bigbadgun]

I think USFA priced those things so they can keep them, they dont really want to sell any of them, as they will soon see. Maybe then the prices will come down so as us poor working folk can buy some of them fansy new toys.
:banghead:

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Yeah, it is a little sad that many of the people who buy them will be people who dosen't really appreciate them.
I guess I could ease around and buy one. Fifteen hundred dollars is not the end of the world.
I don't figure I need to. I'vd had the internal parts hardened and tuned up on my '58's and I'vd had the barrels changed and I'vd got a lot of trust and confidence in them. They shoot good as hell.
I'vd got some money in them but it's over an extended period of time and to me it's not the same thing as just plunking down around $1600.00 or so and saying: "I'll tak'er"!
What the hell did you 'take'? You have no way of really knowing. It may be months down the line before you really know. You may not have the occasion to ever know.
But, although I hasten to add here that I know it's none of my business and I don't try and pretend that it is, I hate to see people waste money on something they really have no use for and don't need. Or even worse, to buy it so they can use it as a staus symbol or for bragging rights. What the hell they got to brag about? If they would work and practice and skin their hand's up and really learn how to shoot the sonofab**** they wouldn't have to brag. Other people would do their bragging for them if that's what they were looking for.
I'm glad it's finally getting on the market though. I really am. It's long overdue.
But it still has to be adjusted and tuned up to suit the individual if they are really into shooting. It just may not need quite as much.
Anyway, I'm glad it's on the market although on the bottom line that sure amount's to a lot of food for some hungry people in this country just laying up in a safety deposit box somewhere or hanging on a wall in the hope's that somebody will see it and be jealous or impressed....

 

[Old Fuff]

Yeah, it is a little sad that many of the people who buy them will be people who doesn't really appreciate them.

Oh they will appreciate them, but not necessarily the same way you do. You would shoot the revolver into the ground and have a great time doing it. They may be satisfied showing it off to friends and associates. Different people, different ways.

Sometimes I see someone drive by in an expensive luxury car, or maybe a snazzy sport model. Am I impressed? Well sometimes yes, but often no. I drive a car to get from point "A" to point "B". If it gets me there I’m satisfied. On the other had the person driving the expensive transportation is sending out signals that the “have it” and can flaunt the fact. But my receiver is usually turned off so their effort is wasted.

I suspect my most immediate reaction to the USFA Remington will be to figure out how to make an equal but more accurate revolver for much less money. If I don’t get to own the “high priced spread” the sky won’t fall.

I’m sure that some of them will get a work out. A lot of SASS competitors are not exactly living on food stamps. I am also sure that when the dust settles some of the well-heeled cowboys will sometimes watch someone with less expensive hardware take home the trophy. In the end it’s always the skill of the person behind the gun that counts.

 

[apachejack]

Maybe some people think of having fun with them and reselling them. The guns will always be worth what was given for them unless they are mistreated very badly (kind of doubt it at that price). It's really a choice like having a Les Baer or a Rock Island Armory, they both shoot but the resell is quite different. I have shot USFA guns and they are very smooth and accurate and I would rather buy one of those than have to have a gunsmith work on a cheaper gun and have it cost me close to the same price and then the resell comes in to play. The USFA will get its dues while the cheaper gun will get its same price without the work done it. Just something to think about and I love reading everyones opinions.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Old Fuff Good morning..
ApacheJack, what you say is true only in one sense of the word.
Why would someone want to re-sell it?
I know I chose my pieces very carefully knowing ahead of time about what I wanted to have done to them. I feel a great sense of loyalty toward's Pietta for their '58 and for their carbine. Far more loyalty than I feel toward Remington although they're the one's who actually developed and produced the piece originally.
Like my Cougar. I fine tuned it. Got rid of the radio/cassette player that came in it and put in an Alpine CD/Radio stereo system. Hard wired my scanner and HAM radio and Galaxie into the car's electrical system. Changed out the 130 amp alternator that came in it and replaced it with a 230 amper and changed out the wiring harness so it could handle the power. Several things like that. I didn't fine tune the car to get rid of it.
I didn't have work done on my Pietta's with the idea that later on I would get rid of them.
I plan on keeping them for the rest of my life.
To me 'Remington' is just the model name of a Pietta gun just like .44 Colt Walker is the model name of a gun that Uberti make's.
In my mind Colt and Walker and Remington dosen't even enter into the picture other than just being names that Pietta and Uberti decided to call a particular model of firearm they were producing and selling.
It may sound disloyal to some people but I feel a great sense of loyalty toward both Pietta and Uberti....

 

[arcticap]

Just look at the prices of fine German, Italian, Austrian or Swiss Olympic quality target pistols, whether they're rimfire, center fire, percussion or air pistols. They usually all cost well over $1000, and most of these makers have been in business for a generation or more.
On the other hand USFA is a relatively new outfit with a new facility and equipment, and they've had to struggle just to survive.
They employ competent people with gunbuilding experience who take a lot of pride in their work and earn a fair wage, and we all know that everyone is just trying to make a living while producing a good product that's competitive in the current world marketplace.
I hope that they can export more of their USA made products abroad.
When I see a new desirable & expensive model car come onto the marketplace, I know that it will become more affordable in the used marketplace if I still want one later on.
I'm also surprised to see that they entered into a licensing agreement with Remington Arms itself to produce some of their historical guns.
USFA has tried to build products in the tradition of the original Colt Company, and now with a 100% American product built from scratch.
I think that they should really be applauded more for their effort to build their products well than they should be criticized for their prices.
I also wonder if the Italian guns are actually licensed by Remington and if they could be anywhere near as good for twirling?

April 13, 2007
For Immediate Release:
NRA 200 7
History Making Ag re e m e n t — Remington, America’s Oldest Gunmaker
founded in 1816, enters into agreement for gun production with USFA ---
under Historic “ E. Remington & Son’s ” Licensing
U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co. (USFA) in Hartford, CT, and Remington (R.A. Brands) in Madison, N.C.,
today proudly announce that after extensive research, market study and engineering, Remington,
for the first time in its long 191 year history, has Licensed USFA for a line of the famous
E. Remington & Son’s historic product line - 100% made in USA.
Originally produced by E. Remington & Son’s in Ilion New York since 1816, this licensing
agreement recognizes USFA as the leader in historic gun production. The first planned models
will be the popular 1858 and 1875 models.
The New 1858 Model percussion revolver will be available as historically correct in 2 barrel
lengths (5-1/2”and 7-1/2”), 2 calibers (.36 Cal, .44 Cal), and 3 finishes (Armory Blue, Armory Blue
with bone case color frame, and bright nickel). The entire menu of custom options available with
our standard line will be available for the Remington's such as; engraving, gold and silver plate,
ivory, stag and other grips, etc.......

http://www.usfirearms.com/pdf/Press_Release_Remington_USFA.pdf

http://www.usfirearms.com/

 

[Rachen]

I always prefer my pair of Pietta 58's. The Piettas are amongst the smoothest revolvers I ever handled, and the ones that I have feels almost like a Ruger Old Army when they are cocked. If one don't know much about percussion revolvers, they might even think that they are powered by coil mainsprings.

Does anybody know why the USFA models are so unusually expensive??

 

[arcticap]

I can only guess that in part, it's because they are making their own frames and parts rather than importing them, their guns have impeccable finishes and their action parts are hand fitted & tuned.
They have an in-house staff on the payroll that can produce all of the custom options that they offer.
Their overall production volume probably isn't very high.
Plus CT is a state where taxes and the overhead & labor costs of experienced workers is above the national average.
Who knows what role the licensing agreement with Remington involves?