Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia

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Desertdog

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Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia
Killed 5 in crowded shopping mall before being gunned down
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54247


The 18-year-old gunman who killed five people in a crowded Utah shopping mall was a Bosnian Muslim refugee who was prepared to kill many more, say investigators.

An off-duty police officer having an early Valentine's Day dinner with his wife was credited today with cornering Sulejmen Talovic, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived to shoot and kill the gunman.

The trench-coated teenager wanted to "to kill a large number of people" and probably would have killed many more if not for the off-duty officer, Police Chief Chris Burbank said.

A friend said Talovic was from the war-torn country of Bosnia and that the trauma he experienced while growing up may have led to him snapping for some reason.

Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.

"There is no question that his quick actions saved the lives of numerous other people," the police chief said.

Police said it was not immediately clear who fired the shot that killed Talovic.

Talovic had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. Investigators knew little about Talovic, except than he lived in Salt Lake City with his mother, the chief said. He was enrolled in numerous city schools before withdrawing in 2004, the school district said. Initially, police refused to release his name or any information about his background.

Talovic drove to the Trolley Square shopping center – a century-old former trolley barn with winding hallways, brick floors and wrought-iron balconies, and immediately killed two people, followed by a third victim as he came through a door, Burbank said. Five other people were then shot in a gift shop, he said.

Four people who were wounded remained hospitalized today, two in critical condition, two in serious.

Outside the mall, candles and flowers were left as memorials to the victims.

Hammond's boss, Ogden Police Chief Jon Greiner, said the state Senate wants to honor him.

"Thank goodness he was there," said Greiner, who is also a state senator. "You don't want to ever say it's good we were there and killed somebody, but it's probably good someone was there."

Accountant Jeff Barlow was on a date at a restaurant when he looked outside and saw the gunman firing from the hip.

"I thought it was some kind of joke – some kind of movie or stunt," Barlow said. "I didn't believe it was happening. And then I saw a man go down in a courtyard. I realized this was serious. These are real bullets flying around."

David Dean, who owns a greeting-card store at the mall, said three or four people died inside his store, which was packed with Valentine's Day shoppers.
 
You can expect to be reading this story often once we begin to bring Iraqi refugees en masse to the U.S.

We already have tons of Iraqi refugees in the U.S. Ever been to a liquor store in Southern California? All the ones I went to were run by Iraqi Chaldeans.

Plenty in Detroit too.

-MV
 
So do we have a legitimate source on this yet?

Only people I've heard say clearly that this guy was Muslim are Michael Savage and WND ... neither are acceptable sources (not saying they are lying or even wrong but if I'm going to discuss this with non-conservatives I need a source that's not going to become the issue and derail discussion).

+1 spartacus2002
 
Frustrated over Bosnia? Pfft, so he kills Americans despite the fact we saved the muslims in the Kosovo war because billy o boy forced us to?
 
The man was nuts.

Doesn't have much to do with his being Muslim.

As far as I can tell from the story, anyways.
 
"Thank goodness he was there," said Greiner, who is also a state senator. "You don't want to ever say it's good we were there and killed somebody, but it's probably good someone was there."

I nominate that for the most morally courageous statement of the week.

An off-duty police officer having an early Valentine's Day dinner with his wife was credited today with cornering Sulejmen Talovic, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived to shoot and kill the gunman.

"Suleiman," variously spelled, is quite a common Arabic name, and has been for centuries. That doesn't mean the fellow had to be Islamic, but the odds are high.
 
Most Bosnian refugees in this country are Muslim, so I suspect this guy is.

It DOES matter because it increases the probability that this was a politically/religiously motivated attack, not just the random act of a random nutball.
 
Expect to see the media downplay or ignore the muslim angle.

Were his actions guided by his religion?

Does the media specify which Christian denomination murderers in your town belongs to? They don't down here.
 
Spartacus2002 said
Expect to see the media downplay or ignore the muslim angle.

I am worried they might play up the angle and say we need to restrict guns to keep them out of the hands of terrorists. I doubt they would in this case, but some politicians will and have used terrorism as a reason to restrict the rkba.
 
Does the media specify which Christian denomination murderers in your town belongs to? They don't down here.
No, but if they were the member of a "militia group" or "white supremacist/separatist" or "anti-government" group i can guarantee you it would be made into the major issue.
 
While the "hero" was an off-duty police officer, it does demonstrate the validity of CCW.
 
So far they have not given enough information about the shooters background or MO to draw any conclusions about the reasons behind the attack. The only immediate reaction I can draw after of course sorrow for the victims and their families is the effectiveness of concealed carry in defeating crimes in progress. I belive that Hammonds actions demonstate that he is a brave and upstanding officer, and an armed off duty LEO or an armed citizen is the only defense against an attack like this before on-duty officers arrive.
 
"Only people I've heard say clearly that this guy was Muslim are Michael Savage and WND ... neither are acceptable sources (not saying they are lying or even wrong but if I'm going to discuss this with non-conservatives I need a source that's not going to become the issue and derail discussion)."


It seems to me you just DID suggest that they were either lying or wrong.

What source do you consider reliable? New York Times?, AP? AL Reuters? :rolleyes:
Shall we start a new thread on THEIR credibility?

I would be especially skeptical of reports which came out minutes or a couple hours after a news event...... it is often, if not usually distorted.

If anyone wants to assert that Sulejmen Talovic was NOT a Bosnian Muslim, or that this was not his name.... when this information has matured for 30 hours.... Well, let's just see if this is refuted.... or is simply ignored by most MSM.
I've already heard this same info repeated from Fox News, but I suppose some will contest any information from there, as well.

I thought that not hearing an immediate report on the ID of the shooter suggested MSM supression of him being a Muslim.

Unlike MOST berserker shootings, I expect THIS one to disappear quickly from the news repetitions.

The shooter was Muslim but that had NOTHING to do with it... ( it never does, does it? )
move along, nothing to see here.

--Travis--
 
Nothing here folks! Just coincidentally happened to be a member of the religion of peace. Why don't you all just know that these people are oozing with love for Christians and Jews.

And yes, this is just the beginning. In EVERY country where Muslims reach a critical mass of 2 % they begin to agitate and create problems. We are in for a long and difficult road. Historically, the story of Islam is the bloodiest in the annals of mankind.

Where are the Sobieskis, the Hunyadis, the Don Johns and finally the Hammers when we need them. The left has managed to raise two generations with little or no cultural memory. No knowledge of history. We are ill prepared for the battles ahead.
 
The Bradys have already blamed the guns. Check their front page.

If he is a Muslim and that is a factor I expect the media to downplay that to the point of ignoring it even if there were letters strewn around his home stating that is was religiously motivated. After all they have a bogeyman/gun to blame. They will play up the fact that he had access to guns and infer it's a causal factor. Complete with quotes from a Brady Campaign rep.

If there is no evidence of a religous motivation then we shouldn't try and inject one. He may have just snapped like other people have over the years.

While the "hero" was an off-duty police officer, it does demonstrate the validity of CCW.
Media will not give CCW any credit, he was a cop that's the only reason they will say he was able to interdict.
 
"Expect more of this"

Thank goodness the religion of all the other "spree" shooters wasn't mentioned in those killings!
As we all know, only Muslims kill people en masse!

As yet there aren't overwhelming numbers of Muslims slaughtering innocents in malls. To blame one religion for a crazy member is, in itself, crazy! Is there any mention of the killer's religion in any report of multiple murders in a random, public venue unless it's a Muslim?

If it is found out that his beleifs and reasons for the spree were religiously motivated, THEN it should be an issue, but only then.

Internationally, Muslim extremists have garnered a justifiable fear, but to blame a crazy person soley because he is a Muslim is, so far, unjustified.

I chalk this incident up to a screwed up brain, intent on suicide by another, taking others with him just for fame and notoriety.

It also reinforces my desire to carry all the time. It's not the probability that something bad may happen, it's the cost. The price/inconvenience of carrying 24/7 pales to the price you may be forced to pay if you don't.
 
It seems to me you just DID suggest that they were either lying or wrong.

What source do you consider reliable? New York Times?, AP? AL Reuters?
Shall we start a new thread on THEIR credibility?
You go out in the world and start discussing any issue and use WND, Michael Savage or any other Conservative Editorial source and I guarantee you the debate will become about your source, NOT the issue at hand. I don't care if you have absolute incontestable proof and a note from God signed in his own blood saying that WND or Michael Savage are correct, citing them as a source WILL end the discussion.

And CLEARLY if you actually read the sentence of mine you quoted you'll see that I didn't suggest they were lying or wrong.

Media will not give CCW any credit, he was a cop that's the only reason they will say he was able to interdict.
The typical tactic of the media is to misidentify an armed citizen as an "off duty cop" or "plain clothes cop" as they did with the Virginia Law School shooting and in the death of Mark Allen Wilson (where his role in saving lives in Tyler Texas went largely ignored ... even in one of those "world's scariest police shootout" shows)
 
10 years from now when an American who was at that shopping mall goes to Bosnia and starts shooting people, I hope the media is just as understanding.

Why do they even have to take BS wild guesses at the killer's motivations, when they have no evidence to support them at all? Is it because of his religion, and PC gone mad?
 
Does anyone have a source that said he did this for some sort of religious motivation? Anyone?

So we can assume that the man shooting up the place in the Tacoma Washington mall was doing it because he was a Christian extremist? So all Christians, the religioin of turning the other cheek, must be out to kill everyone right?
 
So what was the deal with the Philly shooter on the same day? I guess he wasn't Muslim, right? Like 95% of all spree shooters (in fact the only other Muslim spree shooter I can recall is the "DC sniper" case). The guy who shot up the Amish schoolhouse last year--after having his plan to rape the little girls foiled--went to a Christian church, didn't he?

The parade of predictable chicken littles never ends....
 
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