Autolycus
Member
Do you have any idea about why we were in Kosovo? Any at all?
Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia
- Thread starter Desertdog
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If he was a member of one of those sects and carried out the killings due to his beliefs, of course they would. The RAHOWA jackass who went spree-killing a few years back was rightly identified by his beliefs.
Likewise, the minute evidence were to come out that the motivation here was religious extremism, it would be news.
But no such evidence exists outside of the minds of those who'll use any excuse to whine about how white Christians are getting the shaft and we're about to all be slaughtered by the hordes of Mohammed. It's disgusting.
Here's a question: Anyone know of any atheists who went nuts and shot up a school/mall/office?
Seriously. I wasn't able to turn any up on google, but you all might have better memories/resources/google-fu than I do.
After all, as long as we're going to drag religion into this thing, we might as well look at all of them, no?
Seriously. I wasn't able to turn any up on google, but you all might have better memories/resources/google-fu than I do.
After all, as long as we're going to drag religion into this thing, we might as well look at all of them, no?
Zundfolge said:
The guy is named after Suliman the Magnificent, the Turk sultan who tried to take Vienna. Fortunately, he failed, or we'd probably all be living in huts and wiping our butts with our bare hands.
It's a safe bet the killer was a Muslim.
Autolycus
Member
Got any facts to back up the fact he was named after Suliman? I dont believe that we would be living in huts either.
And got any proof that he was a Muslim? Until we can get some please stop implying that all Muslims are here to destroy the white christian children and rape decent white christian women.
Mr.V.
Member
That has to be one of the largest logical gaps I've ever tried to span in a single thought.bouis said:
I can't begin to think of how many school/mall/abortion clinic/amish schoolhouse shootings that were NOT perpetrated by muslims in this country.
This thread has officially gone the way of bigotry...
The guy's name is Sulejmen Talovic. He's from Bosnia. Now maybe it's just a coincidence that Sulejmen sounds a lot like Suliman/Suleiman/Suleyman, the man who brought Islam, dripping from a bloody sword, to Bosnia, but I think it's a safe bet that Sulejmen is in fact a Muslim.
The Seige of Vienna is thought to be the greatest reach of Islam into Europe [compare with Tours almost 1000 years earlier]. Whether they could have kept going after taking the city is debatable, but that they wanted to is beyond debate.
As to the consequences of a Muslim conquest of Europe, you need only look to any place in the world that Muslims conquered to see what it does to the standard of living.
The Seige of Vienna is thought to be the greatest reach of Islam into Europe [compare with Tours almost 1000 years earlier]. Whether they could have kept going after taking the city is debatable, but that they wanted to is beyond debate.
As to the consequences of a Muslim conquest of Europe, you need only look to any place in the world that Muslims conquered to see what it does to the standard of living.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
More proof we need to be alot more carefull about who we let in the country.
Anyone trying to act like his descendancy is a irrelevancy, or demanding confirmation of him being Muslim, be serious folks.
This guy was named for the Turk. I know because my father's side of the family comes from that little chunk of the world, and a Christian or Jew would not name their kid Suleimann (or any other variant). The hate all sides had for each other is well known.
To me, this guy's religion was the most important factor until I hear convincing evidence to the contrary.
The worst thing was this. He didn't have to be here.
Anyone trying to act like his descendancy is a irrelevancy, or demanding confirmation of him being Muslim, be serious folks.
This guy was named for the Turk. I know because my father's side of the family comes from that little chunk of the world, and a Christian or Jew would not name their kid Suleimann (or any other variant). The hate all sides had for each other is well known.
To me, this guy's religion was the most important factor until I hear convincing evidence to the contrary.
The worst thing was this. He didn't have to be here.
Erebus
Member
You're kidding, right?
So far as I have seen his religon has nothing to do with it, why must you make the assumption that it is? Because some other Muslims killed people in the name of Islam? Everytime a Christian kills someone do you make the same assumption? That it was his religon that drove him to kill.
Neither do you. I am sure at some point some member of your race/religon/some characteristic we can pigeonhole you with has done something horrible and maybe you shouldn't be here because of it.
coltrane679
Member
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- 377
The paranoia and hysteria around here is almost comical.
It is obvious to me that some people will not be satisfied until there is a "final solution" to the "Muslim problem".
In my youth, when I read history, I always asked myself--how could "decent" people allow these things to happen?
Now I know.
The truly scary thing is this: THR is one of the classier, LESS crazed gunboards on the net.
It is obvious to me that some people will not be satisfied until there is a "final solution" to the "Muslim problem".
In my youth, when I read history, I always asked myself--how could "decent" people allow these things to happen?
Now I know.
The truly scary thing is this: THR is one of the classier, LESS crazed gunboards on the net.
Autolycus
Member
So you have no idea for motive other than he has a Bosnian name that he is a Muslim fanatic? I guess that everybody named Joseph is just another Stalin. Everybody named Jeffrey must be a Jeffrey Dahmer.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
Look, I've posted many a time about the fact that grabbing a Muslim from Dearborn and throwing him into Gitmo for waterboarding is something people ought to go to jail for. I've said constantly that American Muslims have the same rights the rest of us do.
The problem however is the fact that a Muslim can set off a bomb (possibly even a nuclear one) in the U.S.
Most Muslims here are like Derek Zeanah, the guy who runs this board. But some are religious fanatics who are determined to kill people. We don't have any fair and equitable way of knowing who will be a Derek Zeanah, and who will be a terrorist.
So, we need to heavily restrict immigration from Middle Eastern countries. I don't like that answer. I don't like what it implies, or what it says about the future of our nation, or the world. But I like American dead alot worse. And my loyalty is to Americans. If your Muslim already, hey that's your thing.
But that doesn't mean we have to allow everyone in from every country who demands citizenship. Especially when lives are at stake.
The problem however is the fact that a Muslim can set off a bomb (possibly even a nuclear one) in the U.S.
Most Muslims here are like Derek Zeanah, the guy who runs this board. But some are religious fanatics who are determined to kill people. We don't have any fair and equitable way of knowing who will be a Derek Zeanah, and who will be a terrorist.
So, we need to heavily restrict immigration from Middle Eastern countries. I don't like that answer. I don't like what it implies, or what it says about the future of our nation, or the world. But I like American dead alot worse. And my loyalty is to Americans. If your Muslim already, hey that's your thing.
But that doesn't mean we have to allow everyone in from every country who demands citizenship. Especially when lives are at stake.
A Bosnian name? His name is a "Bosnianization" of the name of a famous Ottoman Sultan who waged Jihad against, well, everybody.
I suppose that if you met a guy named Joseph Stalin Smith or Adolf Hitler Jones you wouldn't think anything of it, right?
I suppose that if you met a guy named Joseph Stalin Smith or Adolf Hitler Jones you wouldn't think anything of it, right?
coltrane679
Member
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- 377
Restricting immigration is fine with me--from lots of places, for lots of reasons. But the craziness around here goes WAY beyond that, and you know it (even if it doesn't go beyond that in your case).
+1
The irrational fear of Muslims some members seem to have is the same type of irrational fear the brady bunch anti-gun types show toward gun owners. In both cases, rather than try to understand the "Other", they prefer to wallow in bigotry and sensationalistic "bogeyman" type fantasies about the objects of their fears.
BTW, Muslims named Suleiman are usually named after the Prophet Suleiman. You know, Solomon? David's Son?
Lucky
Member
Mordechai that's what I'm talking about - political correctness run MAD! You're now racist if you suspect a Muslim who went on a killing spree of being a radical Muslim!
WTH is wrong with these PC freaks? HE WENT ON A KILLING SPREE IN A SHOPPING MALL - HE'S NOT A NICE GUY. RADICAL MUSLIMS DO EXIST, I THINK THIS MIGHT BE EVIDENCE.
WTH is wrong with these PC freaks? HE WENT ON A KILLING SPREE IN A SHOPPING MALL - HE'S NOT A NICE GUY. RADICAL MUSLIMS DO EXIST, I THINK THIS MIGHT BE EVIDENCE.
Wow, first time I've EVER been accused of being Politically Correct. However, you are in error:
1.
2.
You appear to have completely missed my point here, which is that your assertion that he was named Sulejman after the Ottoman Sultan is less likely than that he was named after a Prophet of God whose name is found in the Bible and the Qur'an.
1.
You have built a straw man here. NO ONE is claiming he is a "nice guy", nor is anyone denying the existence of "Radical Muslims". Yes, there are some Radical Muslims, just as there are some Radical Christians, Radical Hindus, Radical Jews, Radical Athiests, ad nauseam. Extremism is a personality disorder not confined to any one religion or political system. Anyone can become infected with it.
2.
I don't think anyone is making this argument either. I think the point being made is that you may be a "racist" (actually more of a bigot, since Islam is not a "race") if your first reaction to the report that a recent multiple murder was commited by a guy who has a Muslim background is something along the lines of : "EEEEK!!! The Muslims are coming! The Muslims are coming! See! More proof that "The Religion of Peace" is out to rape our wimminfolk and kill us all!!".
You appear to have completely missed my point here, which is that your assertion that he was named Sulejman after the Ottoman Sultan is less likely than that he was named after a Prophet of God whose name is found in the Bible and the Qur'an.
Lucky
Member
Here's what we know - he shot people. What we don't know - why. The problem here - one likely reason is Verboten to be discussed, because if you suggest a muslim killing people in a mall is a radical muslim you get called a bigot.
Newsmedia going waaaay out on a limb and assuming he's suffering some PTSD from years ago, but not mentioning the possibility that he's just doing what a radical cleric told him to do. You don't think that's a politically correct omission?
I find the lengths people will go to to avoid saying the obvious to be disconcerting. And when they start comparing others to Nazis and calling them pretty horrible names, because they stated the obvious, that's just not right.
Radical Islam IS a problem in the world today, for people who aren't part of it. It's just the way things are. And it is becoming more and more mainstream. You better believe the moderates recognize it and are not in denial, they're more against it than you or I because they have a pretty big stake in the deal.
Radical Islam flourishes because people like you and the other's in this thread ignore it, and force others to do the same.
Here's an article from my city http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2006/06/18/1638909.html
You can go ahead and bury your head in the sand, but you cross the line when you start telling other people to do the same.
Newsmedia going waaaay out on a limb and assuming he's suffering some PTSD from years ago, but not mentioning the possibility that he's just doing what a radical cleric told him to do. You don't think that's a politically correct omission?
I find the lengths people will go to to avoid saying the obvious to be disconcerting. And when they start comparing others to Nazis and calling them pretty horrible names, because they stated the obvious, that's just not right.
Radical Islam IS a problem in the world today, for people who aren't part of it. It's just the way things are. And it is becoming more and more mainstream. You better believe the moderates recognize it and are not in denial, they're more against it than you or I because they have a pretty big stake in the deal.
Radical Islam flourishes because people like you and the other's in this thread ignore it, and force others to do the same.
Here's an article from my city http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2006/06/18/1638909.html
You can go ahead and bury your head in the sand, but you cross the line when you start telling other people to do the same.
No. Saying, "Hmm, I heard he was a Muslim, I wonder if the attack was religiously motivated" is NOT what gets you called a bigot. What gets you called a bigot is:
a) The immediate assumption that the incident MUST have been religiously motivated with NO EVIDENCE whatsoever except the guy's Muslim-sounding name and a few reports that he has a Muslim background.
b) The irrational, overblown inferences that this incident is yet more proof that the Muslim Bogeyman walks among us, ready to rape and kill us all, because, gosh, doncha know them Moozlims is all a bunch of evil backwards terrists, who hate us God-fearin' Christians/Jews/Whatever cuz they hate our enlightened goodness.
Turn it around. What if I pointed to folks like David Duke and that lunatic preacher who protested the funerals of American servicemen with his message of killing all the gays, along with a list of quotes from morons like Ann Coulter with her "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" comments, and the multitude of radical Christian hotheads who want to nuke Mecca, and of course a list of historical instances of Christian countries invading Muslim lands and killing them, and then take all this hate filled crapola and claim that these views are typical of American Christian thought?
As for the article you linked to, Dr. Mahfooz Kanwar is a man with a political agenda. Strangely, no one seemed to try to get the other side of the story. Maybe because doing so might prevent the story from neatly dovetailing into everyone's preconceived notions about Islam and Muslims. But then, we probably don't need to get the other side of the story, because we all know the media NEVER make mistakes, distort things or blow things out of proportion, right?
AStone
Member
I made a wrong turn, officer.
That's the only reason
that I'm in L&P at this hour
(PST; before sleep)
Honest.
That's the only reason
that I'm in L&P at this hour
(PST; before sleep)
Honest.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
One could assume with equal logic that anyone named Richard must be a Christian.
Not a valid assumption. Names are primarily cultural, not religious. Most people name their sons Michael because they like the name, not because they want to name him after an archangel.
PILMAN
Member
Actually yes.
The columbine killers had no religious beliefs although Dylan Klebold was raised as a Jew. He had a Sickle on his boot (the soviet one). I have no doubts Eric Harris was an Atheist as well or at the very least agnostic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimveer_Gill
Kimveer Gill the Dawson school shooter was a self proclaimed atheist
"According to his online profile at VampireFreaks.com, Gill was an atheist. His parents were part of the Sikh community in the Quebec area.[4] A graduate of Rosemere High School, he lived in the borough of Fabreville in Laval, Quebec at the time of the attack."
I guess the communists could attribute to mass murdering atheists as well? Problem is Atheism isn't actually considered a religion, it just means "lack of beleif in a entity or superior being or God". It's rather difficult to class all Atheists as bad or good, although i'm sure most of your serial killers have no religious affiliation therefore that would technically make most of them agnostic. A killer is a killer, their religion is irrelevant.
Thin Black Line
Member
The US Government allowed a little over 200 Iraqis into the US in 2005.
I'm fairly sure that in the eyes of the muslim world the positive balance on that
debit card from the 1990s has been spent since then...then again, they probably
felt whatever we did in the Balkans from Bosnia to Kosovo did not add a positive
balance in the first place!
Our Balkan intervention has produced such afterthoughts:
oh well, I digress I guess. Hopefully, all this breeds no more than a bad
Chuck Norris/George Clooney hybrid movie of loose suitase nukes in a mall
taken over by terrorists.
I wonder how it would have been reported if it had been a civie CCW who
had just bought his 9mm ammo at a sporting goods store in the mall?!
30 cal slob
Member
enough of the muslim bashing please.
some of my best friends are Muslim.
some of my best friends are Muslim.
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